What was the point of Mr. Oz? *Doomsday Clock #12 spoilers*

[manwhohaseverything]

For those who missed it @bat39 broke down the superman reborn

Doomsday Clock SPOILERS

It just occurred to me that the Metaverse reveal at the end of DDC might finally explain the whole 'two' Supermen situation from Convergence/Superman Reborn.

Here goes-

1. Pre-Flashpoint Superman and Lois exist on Earth 0.

2. Doc Manhattan's tampering alters Earth 0. Pre-Flashpoint Superman and Lois become New 52 Superman and Lois.

3. As a result of Manhattan's tampering, a new parallel earth is created to 'preserve' the Pre-Flashpoint continuity. Pre-FP Superman and Lois continue their lives on this earth.

4. During Convergence, Brainiac grabs the Metropolis from this parallel earth, including Pre-FP Superman and Lois. During their time imprisoned in the bottle city, Jon is conceived and born. Post-Convergence, Pre-FP Superman and Lois end up on Earth 0 and raise Jon there.

5. New 52 Superman and Lois die, and the Pre-FP versions take their place.

6. The essence of the New 52 Superman and Lois 'merge' with the Pre-FP Superman and Lois. This alters the history of Earth 0, restoring its earlier Pre-FP configuration to a large extent.


So basically, the 'split' of Superman into two was caused by Manhattan simply because Manhattan tampering with Earth 0's history caused the creation of a parallel earth that preserved the earlier version of Superman. Pre-FP Superman, despite being from a parallel universe, was essentially a previous timeline version of New 52 Superman - thus he was able to be 're-incorporated' into Earth 0 history, becoming Reborn Superman.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I honestly can't think of anyone who would make sense as the mastermind behind Jor-El's abduction and transformation into Mr. Oz.

Who would benefit from keeping the DCU's timeline unstable? Superboy-Prime should be free these days following the destruction of the Source Wall, but he doesn't strike me as a long-term planner. Plus, Johns already rang that bell in Legion of 3 Worlds. Brainiac has already been done in Convergence and it made no sense whatsoever, so maybe they could bring that incarnation back...but I don't think anyone is all that keen on revisiting that story again.

What about the Parallax from Zero Hour who is still roaming around the DCU somewhere? I'm not sure if the timeline tracks with Mr. Oz's first appearances, but I suppose it wouldn't matter given the time shenanigans of it all. I don't think there'd be much motivation here though. That version of Parallax was obsessed with setting things right by restoring the Multiverse in which all the tragedies that had befallen the DCU were reversed. I don't see why keeping Tim Drake or Mr. Mxy imprisoned would make sense.

I suppose they could explain that Parallax was trying to prevent Tim Drake from re-establishing the connections that existed in the Pre-Flashpoint continuity because Parallax's goal was to restore the the Pre-Crisis continuity and maintaining the more malleable in-flux continuity of the Rebirth era served his purposes.

I dunno. They're going to need someone smarter than me to craft a decent story out of this.

[Ascended]

I honestly can't think of anyone who would make sense as the mastermind behind Jor-El's abduction and transformation into Mr. Oz.

I think we can just write it off as Manhattan experimenting. I mean, if I remember Clock right a lot of what Manhattan did was just to see what would happen, he didn't really have a ultimate plan....he was just a scientist poking the DCU with a stick.

And although Clock makes it look like he only did a couple small things here or there, we know that he forced Pandora to create the New52 so he's not above using proxies to do his work for him, nor is he above interfering directly (since he blew her up when he was done with her). He did more than just move a lantern a few inches to the right.

Pulling Jor from the past and making him crazy/evil could just be one more experiment on Superman. What happens when his dad is a villain? How does that impact him and the hope he creates and what does that do to the ripple effects he has on the metaverse?

Myx could have been imprisoned simply because he's one of the few creatures powerful enough to notice what Manhattan is doing, and unlike other "plot device" beings Myx keeps an eye on our reality (and Clark especially), and if he interferes he'll throw Manhattan's data off. You gotta control the variables when you're doing science and Myx could have just been a variable Manhattan had to account for and remove from the equation. Likewise, if Tim Drake was getting close to uncovering Manhattan's tampering, that would mess with the experiment's results too. So he gets imprisoned.

I don't think Manhattan had any plans beyond "huh, look at this weird universe. What'll happen to it if I do this?" For what it's worth I'm not sure if anyone at DC had plans much more concrete than that either. Johns probably did, but dropping his own plots is a common trait with that guy.

[Kuwagaton]

It's weird because Oz took it upon himself to take Mxy apparently not knowing that what made him a threat also made him the best possible ally in that situation. Though they could have easily said later that driving Mxy crazy was the point of that.

Anyone follow how that whole Tim thing got us to here with him in YJ?

[Ascended]

Anyone follow how that whole Tim thing got us to here with him in YJ?

Um.

Okay.....he got kidnapped because he was investigating.....something?.....that wasn't directly tied to the tampering of time, but would have uncovered discrepancies in history. So he's put in Oz's prison not knowing why. He escapes, gets home, and is sucked into all the drama happening in 'Tec. When the dust settles, he knows he's on the verge of uncovering something big, because he was told as much by Oz, but he has no idea what he was about to uncover. All he has is the name "Conner" which I think he only heard because of Oz. He leaves Gotham with Stephanie, headed for college where he thinks he can finish his investigation and learn why he was imprisoned and who Conner is/was.

He doesn't appear again until Young Justice. Apparently college campuses don't have the resources the Batcave does (who knew?), and Tim's investigation has led him to Metropolis while Steph stays.....wherever Steph is. And that's when Tim runs into Cassie, then Bart, gets tossed into Gemworld and finally finds Conner. Meeting Conner fixes Tim's memories, at least to a degree, just like meeting Wally in the Rebirth Special fixed Barry's.

So now Tim knows why he was imprisoned; his friendship with Conner threatened to show that time has been changed. What he does with that knowledge we haven't seen yet, since the team has been lost in the multiverse and only just got home.

[Midnighter]

Um.

Okay.....he got kidnapped because he was investigating.....something?.....that wasn't directly tied to the tampering of time, but would have uncovered discrepancies in history. So he's put in Oz's prison not knowing why. He escapes, gets home, and is sucked into all the drama happening in 'Tec. When the dust settles, he knows he's on the verge of uncovering something big, because he was told as much by Oz, but he has no idea what he was about to uncover. All he has is the name "Conner" which I think he only heard because of Oz. He leaves Gotham with Stephanie, headed for college where he thinks he can finish his investigation and learn why he was imprisoned and who Conner is/was.

He doesn't appear again until Young Justice. Apparently college campuses don't have the resources the Batcave does (who knew?), and Tim's investigation has led him to Metropolis while Steph stays.....wherever Steph is. And that's when Tim runs into Cassie, then Bart, gets tossed into Gemworld and finally finds Conner. Meeting Conner fixes Tim's memories, at least to a degree, just like meeting Wally in the Rebirth Special fixed Barry's.

So now Tim knows why he was imprisoned; his friendship with Conner threatened to show that time has been changed. What he does with that knowledge we haven't seen yet, since the team has been lost in the multiverse and only just got home.

Actually Zatanna unlocked all of his pre-flashpoint memories.

[Sacred Knight]

For those who missed it @bat39 broke down the superman reborn

That actually makes more sense than I ever expected Convergence to be able to be made sense of within the context of main continuity.

[Ascended]

Actually Zatanna unlocked all of his pre-flashpoint memories.

.

......

That was in Young Justice right? I....think I vaguely recall that now you mention it........

[Cmbmool]

I feel kind of disappointed over the lack of proper tie ins to the Doomsday Clock story and whether or not Dr. Manhattan did bring in Jor-El and for what purpose ?

[manwhohaseverything]

Wasn't it already said that jor el and thomas wayne both were brought to make clark and bruce doubt themselves by Dr. Manhattan?

[Desmark]

Bet they retcon it to have been the phantom stranger who was behind all of it including killing Pandora even if it makes no sense cause the meta verse.

[Midnighter]

.

......

That was in Young Justice right? I....think I vaguely recall that now you mention it........

tim1.jpgtim2.jpg

[Rod G]

It is entirely possible that Mr. Oz was originally intended to be explained in DDC, but as DDC became more and more delayed, the rest of the DCU started to go in its own direction without trying to tie into it, and when Johns lost his position as a DC exec DDC became essentially an Elseworlds out-of-continuity story. Mr. Oz was probably supposed to help explain how the flamed-out Nuperman and New Lois were replaced by their pre-Flashpoint versions, but by now DC hopes you don't remember that it happened at all, just as the characters in the DCU themselves don't remember it either.

I wouldn’t be surprised if THAT was the case.

[Rod G]

Move on. They're going to be too busy setting up 5G to try and shoehorn this back in to try and explain it, and then, if Johns' pulse of the situation is right in DDC, all that stuff will be retconned out in the end anyway. The "Jor-El was alive on Earth" stuff can just safely stay in limbo until that next reset, at which point it can be deleted with a lot of other stuff.

I guess that’s one way of looking at it.