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  1. #106
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Never mind that Deadly Class is an existing example of that the idea that "C"/"D" list content does not have a shot at any of this "I Shall Take My Content Elsewhere, Sir!"... stuff.

    They just tried to do that, and got no takers from these outfits that will supposedly be giving "C"/"D" list content a home to thrive in versus Netflix.

    Beyond that, Deadly Class was a very particular slice of the "Back Bench..." IP where you could have started over while essentially offering the creators a chance to more faithfully adapt the IP than they could at SYFY.

    Which, "Surprise!...", HBOMax and other streaming outfits did not offer those creators a chance to do.

    So, yeah. Reality is just not pointing to that this will happen right now.

  2. #107
    You guessed it mr_crisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post

    Any of them try to make me watch commercials, though, and I'm done. I have a big enough DVD library to entertain myself for the rest of my life commercial free if I have to.
    You'll hate Crackle then. Of course watching commercials is probably the only way they stay free.
    The Gypsies had no home. The Doors had no bass.

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  3. #108
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Here is the problem with what is in blue versus what Zero Hunter posted...

    The idea that IP that doesn't even make the "C" list is fundamentally entitled to a bare minimum "Three Season Commitment..." from Netflix(any streaming outfit, actually...)

    It will only lead to what Zero Hunter said("C" list content and below just going back to a lay of the land where they never even get a single season...) There won't be some magical "Golden Age" for back bench content where it will get three seasons no matter how it does.

    Personally, I would rather have something as solid as Deadly Class get just one solid season rather than go back to where it will never even get that.

    In addition, I still haven't come across anything that points to that Disney+ or HBOMax that will be competing for "C"/"D" list content. Until that will even possibly be the case, the idea that said "C"/"D" list content will be in a position to go somewhere other than Netflix/SYFY is entirely unsupported by reality.
    HBO Max is making several of what you described like lesser-known novel adaptations (Circe, Station Eleven, Tokyo Vice, Americanah, Point Horror, The Flight Attendant, Snow Crash, Made for Love...) and other comics that aren’t DC Universe like DMZ and there’s rumors that they’ve optioned a Monstress series based on the Image comic. I know Disney+ also has novel adaptations in the works as well.

    Clearly there’s room for that stuff. Deadly Class the comic is good, but the show was eh, so not a fair comparison. Maybe they’ll reboot it at some point, who knows.

  4. #109
    Astonishing Member AndrewCrossett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_crisp View Post
    You'll hate Crackle then. Of course watching commercials is probably the only way they stay free.
    I'm perfectly willing to pay a reasonable fee for a streaming service. And I'm perfectly willing to watch free content with commercials, as I do on all the network sites. But not both. The cable model... pay an exorbitant fee for access to cable, then watch 20+ minutes of commercials every hour... has got to be a thing of the past. I know some, if not all streaming sites will try to get away with that eventually. Which is why I try to collect every show I value on DVD.

  5. #110
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    HBO Max is making several of what you described like lesser-known novel adaptations (Circe, Station Eleven, Tokyo Vice, Americanah, Point Horror, The Flight Attendant, Snow Crash, Made for Love...) and other comics that aren’t DC Universe like DMZ and there’s rumors that they’ve optioned a Monstress series based on the Image comic. I know Disney+ also has novel adaptations in the works as well.

    Clearly there’s room for that stuff. Deadly Class the comic is good, but the show was eh, so not a fair comparison. Maybe they’ll reboot it at some point, who knows.
    On "Rumors...", "Rumors..." ain't is absolutely going forward with.

    As for DMZ, it is a couple of steps behind Netflix having Sandman. Both of them are pretty well known IP. It's not like it's third or fourth string IP that HBOMax is is backing.

    Another example that obviously points to that HBOMax or Disney + will not be some "Creator's Utopia..." that is handing third or fourth string IP a fair chance at a few seasons to tell a reasonable version of it's story?

    Scalped.

    WGNAmerica did all of the heavy lifting in getting that show off of the ground. It would even be better served by being on a streaming service where it could stay a bit truer to the source material.

    So, where it the "Creator's Utopia..." at HBOMax riding in to take what is essentially finished work and give it a home on the service?

    If you don't have something like an answer to that, the idea that HBOMax will be some place that will give creators a chance that SYFY/Netflix/(And In The Past)WGNAmerica would is just not there in what the service is actually doing.

    It's not like it walked right in to give an IP that had an entirely Native American cast with no real stars three or four seasons to tell it's story. Even when another network has essentially done all of the work.

  6. #111
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    I think you're speaking too soon. They've already announced a bunch of originals of both well-known, deep cuts, and entirely new, and we're really just getting started. I don't know how you define those "tiers", especially because your answer was so vague, but I also don't get where you're getting all this negativity from.

  7. #112
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I think you're speaking too soon. They've already announced a bunch of originals of both well-known, deep cuts, and entirely new, and we're really just getting started. I don't know how you define those "tiers", especially because your answer was so vague, but I also don't get where you're getting all this negativity from.
    Judging them based on what they actually have not done is not "Negativity...".

    It is simply judging them based on the facts of what they have and have not done.

    Based on what they have done so far, there is right around "Zero..." reason to believe that they will be some alternative that third or fourth string IP can take their plans to to get some sort of more fair chance than the one that Netflix currently represents.

    Never mind that Netflix actually has a track record of doing so.

    Right now, HBOMax is actively passing on giving things like Deadly Class or Scalped even the one season that you are taking Netlfix to task for providing.

  8. #113
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    HBO Max didn't exist back when those two were passed on. I don't get what you're trying to say.

    They literally only announced their intention of making an all-in-one streaming service in October of last year, after AT&T successfully bought Time Warner and rebranded them as WarnerMedia, and it didn't start announcing originals until March of this year (starting with Gremlins: Secrets of the Mogwai). It didn't get named until July, where it was officially announced to the world as HBO Max. They've spent much of this year restructuring all of Warner's subsidiaries so as to make them more synergized, as the previous owners feared synergy, thus the three pillars of HBO, Warner Bros., and Turner have existed largely independently of each other, with so much red tape preventing them from working cohesively. All of this was to make the streaming service possible.

    Scalped was passed by WGN in 2017, and Deadly Class was cancelled by Syfy in March 2019, just as originals were being made. Now, was Deadly Class pitched to HBO Max? I kind of doubt it because they were still getting sorted out and it was very early then. Even then, the show was rather mediocre. Maybe they'll reboot it, who knows. Just because HBO Max doesn't have Scalped or Deadly Class at this very moment doesn't mean much. I mean, those are just two IPs. I feel pretty good about Max Originals because of what they've announced so far, as opposed to not feeling good because of what they haven't. They've done far more than just A-list IPs, as I've demonstrated before.
    Last edited by Hybrid; 12-23-2019 at 09:41 PM.

  9. #114
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    HBO Max didn't exist back when those two were passed on. I don't get what you're trying to say.

    They literally only announced their intention of making an all-in-one streaming service in October of last year, after AT&T successfully bought Time Warner and rebranded them as WarnerMedia, and it didn't start announcing originals until March of this year (starting with Gremlins: Secrets of the Mogwai). It didn't get named until July, where it was officially announced to the world as HBO Max. They've spent much of this year restructuring all of Warner's subsidiaries so as to make them more synergized, as the previous owners feared synergy, thus the three pillars of HBO, Warner Bros., and Turner have existed largely independently of each other, with so much red tape preventing them from working cohesively. All of this was to make the streaming service possible.

    Scalped was passed by WGN in 2017, and Deadly Class was cancelled by Syfy in March 2019, just as originals were being made. Now, was Deadly Class pitched to HBO Max? I kind of doubt it because they were still getting sorted out and it was very early then. Even then, the show was rather mediocre. Maybe they'll reboot it, who knows. Just because HBO Max doesn't have Scalped or Deadly Class at this very moment doesn't mean much. I mean, those are just two IPs. I feel pretty good about Max Originals because of what they've announced so far, as opposed to not feeling good because of what they haven't. They've done far more than just A-list IPs, as I've demonstrated before.
    That the service didn't exist doesn't change that the IP is out there essentially finished. Never mind that Deadly Class had a fan base actively campaigning for it being picked up elsewhere.

    Now, let's take what we do know.

    HBOMax will be fielding a Refn rework of the "Maniac Cop..." IP that has been around for years. According to Refn, it will be "More Cocaine..."/"More Neon..."

    Know that is fact, the idea that the service was did not have feelers out before recently feels incredibly unlikely.

    Just not there in what we know is the case.

    So, based on what the service is doing...

    We know that they are going to "More Cocaine..."/"More Neon..." from a white creator.

    Meanwhile, the show with the diverse cast stays dead and the show with an all minority cast will probably never happen.

    Knowing that, I just don't have any reason to buy into that this service is going to be anything like a place where creators can take less "Mainstream..." IP and have some better shot at a fair number of seasons.

    It's just not there in what we know that they are and are not doing.

  10. #115
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Okay, I don't know what you're talking about now.

  11. #116
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Your also ignoring the fact that right now HBO Max HAS to throw up as much new content as they can to try and get people to sign up. They are grabbing up every new show they can. If you don't think that will change in a few years when they are more established your kidding yourself. I can promise you out of all these new show they are putting out probably 80% of them will not last 2 seasons.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Pretty sure there was a lot of hype of The Witcher being a killer app and the next show to succeed Game of Thrones is what I'm saying.
    Netflix's "Killer App" was Stranger Things, as well as Bojack Horseman, as well as The Irishman and before that the Marvel Netflix shows. It's had a lot of apps by this point.

    The Witcher 2019 is another one.


    And you know, as Killer Apps goes, GOT might have been more curse than blessing. It's a fact that when GOT ended it shredded tons of subscribers who cancelled overnight.

  13. #118
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Your also ignoring the fact that right now HBO Max HAS to throw up as much new content as they can to try and get people to sign up. They are grabbing up every new show they can. If you don't think that will change in a few years when they are more established your kidding yourself. I can promise you out of all these new show they are putting out probably 80% of them will not last 2 seasons.
    Don’t be so sure. AT&T can afford to keep HBO Max going because of how much more money they have. Also, these shows are going to be released weekly which as I said is much better for their overall health than the binge model. Also, isn’t 80% exaggerating?

  14. #119
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Your also ignoring the fact that right now HBO Max HAS to throw up as much new content as they can to try and get people to sign up. They are grabbing up every new show they can. If you don't think that will change in a few years when they are more established your kidding yourself. I can promise you out of all these new show they are putting out probably 80% of them will not last 2 seasons.
    One aspect of that worth mentioning...

    The assumption that everything is created with more than two seasons in mind.

    When you think of things like...

    - The Current Watchmen Series
    - Many Of The Single Season FX Mini-Series
    - Too Old To Die Young


    Not everything is going to fit into the "I Have 'This...' Many Seasons In Mind..." mold. One of the things about streaming is that creators won't have to create with being able to put multiple seasons together in mind.

  15. #120
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    ENOUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I, the lord thy GOD Sammael, have just finished watching the witcher on netflix. I am now ready to render my divine verdict and judgment.


    Netflix, I command thee... to receive a STAY of execution !!!!!!!!!!!



    Finally, a good redeeming series on netflix. Fantastic show. I'll check out the second season of lost in space later, the first season was very meh, but leagues above Another Life.


    December has two genre shows being released. Witcher and lost in space. If by some miracle lost in space is actually good for season 2, that is what I want. sci fi and fantasy genre dropping each month, enough for year round satisfaction. And of course do the same for the the normal people who eat up friends reruns and the office and whatever drek others find compelling.

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