Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker (Spoilers)

[WebLurker]

part 1

It was the right move. It's the final movie in the trilogy and she isn't a member of the trio.

That's the thing though; she was the "sixth Ranger," so to speak. She should've gotten at least as much to do as Lando did in ROTJ, given that they were functionally the final main character introduced in movie two (like how Power Ranger teams add a new, usually sixth, Ranger, during the course of the series in question).

JJ has other new characters he has to focus on as well and the movie is overstuffed as it is.

Thing is, I'm not sure that any of the new characters amounted to that much in the grand scheme of the story, so I question if it was the best time to introduce them. Case in point, Rose could've been the one to reprogram Threepio to get the translation rather then taking time to introduce new characters who only appear again at the end. (I did like the new characters, to be fair, but they were as underused as Rose, without the benefit of a whole other movie to set them up.)

Plus Rose wasn't created by JJ. You have to know when to cut your losses

Not sure that makes any sense, but what do I know?

[WebLurker]

This movie only works if you don’t think whatsoever about the plot

Might be able to answer some of these.

-Why is Palpatine back? It is never explained at any point.

The "dark side is a path to the unnatural" might seem like a handwave, but its not the first time in the franchise that we've seen dark siders cheat death. We may not know the nuts and bolts, but Palpatine invoking the scene where he was taking about Sith secrets to control life and death communicate well enough that he used the dark side of the Force to save himself in a partial life.

-Why is he announcing his return? What purpose does it serve? Doesn’t it undermine everything?

He did need Rey to go to Exegol for his master plan and that wasn't happening without her having a reason to. Besides, as we all well know, pride and overconfidence is Palpatine's weaknesses.

-How did the First Order get to his fleet and man it when literally when it was on a planet that nobody could find without a McGuffin that was the plot of 2/3rds of the film

Kylo got the Wayfinder on Mustafar and went there first, establishing the route. Before he goes on the mission to get Rey that leads to him returning to the light, Kylo was having his First Order ally with Palatine's Last Order, so it would make sense that the way to and from would be established. We're shown how that could work when Rey uses the Wayfinder on the X-Wing to go to Exegol and the Resistance track her to find the way.

-Why did Kylo act like he knew who Rey was in TFA if he really had no fucking clue and needed to be told it here?

All that stuff about Kylo recognizing Rey as something was cut from TFA.

-Why did the Emperor send Kylo to kill Rey if it undermined his plan for him to kill her?

My understanding was that was part of the plan to manipulate events to get Rey to Exegol. It could be possible that Palpatine had alternative plans in motion had Kylo killed Rey, so he was playing all the angles, like he did in the Darth Vader comics.

-Was it just a coincidence that Kylo and Rey were a force diad? Because otherwise Palpatine has no back up of Rey won’t kill him

Guess he could've continued to chill on Exegol until something came along, while the Final Order reconquered the Galaxy in his name. For what it's worth, it did almost work, anyways. (Remember, pride and arrogance are his downfall).

-If the Emperor could just **** up a massive force with Force Lightening, why didn’t he do that in ROTJ?

He didn't have the boost of "all the Sith" then. I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the power he and Rey were given by having all of their orders behind them was just for that specific encounter.

-Am I supposed to believe that years ago Lando went on a mission with Luke and just stayed there forever so he could conveniently save the heroes?

Where is it written that he stayed?

[WebLurker]

part 3

-Am I supposed to believe Poe just happens to sync up with an old flame who has this super rare imperial badge that makes no logistical sense that is something he never even saw before mere minutes before they conveniently can use it to save Chewy (who being alive was a cop out) and find the McGuffin?

Yep. What about Luke, Han, and co. landing on the Death Star in time to save Leia?

-So the ancient Sith dagger that acts as a map to the Wave Finder is designed to line up with 30 year old Death Star wreckage that is following apart and in a tidal wave sea? Geez

I agree that that was odd. The dagger would've had to have been etched with the clue after ROTJ, however that happened.

-Luke and Leia knew Rey was a Palpatine but never told her despite everyone believing he was dead for reasons? They were fighting an off shoot of the Empire and had the heir to the Empire on their side. It would have undermined anyone leading the first order.

For starters, assuming that they even knew right away (notice we're never told the details of how they knew, just that Leia worked it out, but kept it to herself and still trained Rey), there's no evidence that the First Order would care about them claiming to have the heir to the old Empire. Besides, as explained in the movie, Luke and Leia saw Rey for the person she was, not her bloodline and treated her as such.

.-Ummm when Palpy is on death’s door hooked up to his machine he looks like a really old Ian McDarmid but when he absorbs life force to be renewed he looks like himself after the scarring Mace Windu gave him?

Why not?

-Palpatine completely realized Rey is pushing the lightening back and he just keeps doing it instead of forced her to kill him with his own attack? You know doing literally the only thing that doesn’t accomplish his plan?

I don't think her killing him then would've made her the dark sider he wanted; A.) she wouldn't be striking him down in anger or as part of the ritual and B.) By that point, he'd decided to just restore himself and rule on his own without using Rey. As far as why he kept doing it, he didn't exactly have a weapon lying around, and, as we saw when it hit him, all he needed was one shot.

-So Jedi can heal horrific fatal wounds but nobody thought to do that with Qui Gon, or Anakin’s hand?

Who else knew how to do it? We know that some Force knowledge, like Force ghosts, were lost over time (not to mention the risks it posed to the user).

-Han who has no force powers talks to Kylo instead of his mother who was legit trained by a Jedi who knew astral projection? Like literally Leia was about to die anyways and they can’t just do the one thing that makes the most sense to get Ford in the movie?

Since Carrie Fisher passed away, it's not like they could just plop her anywhere in the movie. It's explained that Kylo is just reliving a memory through the Force, anyways. Besides, it ties back all the way to TFA, where Leia states her belief that both she and Han could turn their son back to the light. It was the right call.

-So Snoke was lying about being the reason for Kylo and Rey’s connection in the last film and it was really the force diad? But then why did Snoke say he made the connection? And if he was lying, shouldn’t he have told Palpatine about the force diad since he was in fact completely aware of it?

I think Snoke unlocked a dyad power for them, whether he thought it was his all his doing or knew about the dyad. Remember, Kylo and Rey would've been matched as dyads by the Force when Rey was born, yet they weren't connecting until the movies, so it clearly had to be latent for years prior. As far as Snoke and Palpatine, it's strongly implied that Snoke had no idea that he was a creation of Palpatine's and that Palpatine was manipulating him for his own ends.

-So Hux was a spy just to conveniently save the heroes in one scene, but he didn’t care who won as long as Kylo lost? So he saved people who ruined master plan in the first film because he didn’t like Kylo that much? Do you didn’t care that the Resistance could have won and you would likely have still been a war criminal with them or maybe the Emperor who was even more dangerous, but Kylo who kept you around for a year was the problem? What? I have to believe this plot point existed for no other reason than to get the heroes a quick escape?

I got the idea that Hux may have hoped to take over after Kylo was ousted and finish beating the Resistance. In any event, his trying to get Kylo out of the way is consistent with the previous movies.

-Rey buries the lightsabers on Tatooine even though Luke hated the place and got off the first chance he got and the only time Leia was ever there she spent the whole time being Jabba’s slave? They really just wanted that double sunset shot to end it?

It was Luke's home and where much of it all began.

-So again why was Rey so important to Palpatine’s plan? He couldn’t have waited another generation for someone who might be more in tune with the darkside? Why did he want to make sure she never became a Jedi? Two of his top apprentices were former Jedi’s (Dooku and Anakin) so was Kylo who he relied on.

Well, she was a powerful Force user, his own granddaughter, and he was convinced that her destiny was to join the dark side. Beyond his usual arrogance, he couldn't seem to conceive that she would choose the light side in the first place. As far as her never becoming a Jedi, that was the whole point, he wanted her as the empress of a new Sith Empire, not out there as a Jedi.

-They can transfer the the homing signal to the main Star Destroyer but couldn’t transfer it to a less obvious ship when they were under direct attack?

Did they have a chance to?

-So this battle ended the war even though we were led to believe that the First Order has the galaxy under its grip and the Resistance was on life support since the prior film because they thwarted the plot of Palpatine who literally nobody knew was alive until recently? Like I get the Second Death Star because it was pretty much the reason the Emperor died and screwed the Empire out of the only planet destroyer.... but the first order was aligned with the Emperor for all of (according to this film) 16 hours, had a hierarchy independent of him, and literally needed exactly one Star Destroyer to escape to have planet destroying capabilities, when they were already winning before? I don’t get how this would be that big of blow when it was basically just a gift power boost to the First Order

Well, as we saw in the montage, the First Order was being decimated all around the Galaxy. They also lost most, if not all, of the leadership when the Last Order fell (remember, Palpatine had been ruling the First Order through Snoke). I agree it was a little quick, but maybe there was more to the story. After all, by the time the movie ends, Rey has her own lightsaber, which indicates a time skip. In ROTJ, it looked liked the war was over with one battle, but we later learned there was still mop up to do.

[Beaddle]

It was the right move. It's the final movie in the trilogy and she isn't a member of the trio. JJ has other new characters he has to focus on as well and the movie is overstuffed as it is. Plus Rose wasn't created by JJ. You have to know when to cut your losses

But 76 seconds of screen time? its a slap in the face of the actress, especially after JJ Abrams said he was grateful for the character and the actress that played her.

She only had less than 120 seconds of screen time. JJ Abrams was not just trying to correct what he felt are the wrongs of last jedi, he wanted to erase her completely.

[jtd]

It's only one line, so everyone can be forgiven for missing it, but the Force healing power comes at a cost. When Rey heals the serpent, she says she gave up some of her life, and moved it as Force energy to the creature. This implies that healing more serious injuries is more expensive, and mortal wounds would be costly indeed.

In fact, both times in the film that a mortal wound is healed by Force healing someone else dies. When Ben heals Rey at the end, he is giving his own life to do so. And when Rey heals Ben on the Death Star wreckage... Leia dies. Leia gave up what was left of herself to save her son.

Which might actually be why she can't fade into the Force until Ben dies, if you follow it to it's logical conclusion.

As for Han, ignoring for a second that Leia has already stepped up for Ben in this sequence as noted above, it is the guilt over Han's death that is has been driving Ben for two films now. It almost has to be Han. For Ben to come to terms with what he did, why he did it, and accept that it was wrong is critical. But so, almost perversely, is forgiving himself for it. Only Han can give that closure.

Great insight ZeroBG82. I enjoyed reading this post.

[Anthony W]

That's the thing though; she was the "sixth Ranger," so to speak. She should've gotten at least as much to do as Lando did in ROTJ, given that they were functionally the final main character introduced in movie two (like how Power Ranger teams add a new, usually sixth, Ranger, during the course of the series in question).

Except Lando was linked to Bespin Awesome Stuff happened at Bespin. Tico is tied to everything bad about the Last Jedi. Canto Bight, stopping Finn from sacrificing himself (you may think he would have failed, but the general audience thought he would succeed) and the kiss.

Thing is, I'm not sure that any of the new characters amounted to that much in the grand scheme of the story, so I question if it was the best time to introduce them. Case in point, Rose could've been the one to reprogram Threepio to get the translation rather then taking time to introduce new characters who only appear again at the end. (I did like the new characters, to be fair, but they were as underused as Rose, without the benefit of a whole other movie to set them up.)

But they were created by him, and that goes a long way.

[WebLurker]

Except Lando was tired to Bespin Awesome Stuff happened at Bespin. Tico is tied to everything bad about the Last Jedi. Canto Bight, stopping Finn from sacrificing himself (you may think he would have failed, but the general audience thought he would succeed) and the kiss.

Nope, can't agree at all.

But they were created by him, and that goes a long way.

Still thought it was a weak point in the movie.

[ChrisIII]

The Star Destroyers having superlasers kind of reminds me of another part of Dark Empire: The Eclipse, Palpatine's massive Star Destroyer which also has a superlaser. Although it's not actually mentioned or seen in "Dark Empire" other materials mentioned it-and it was seen in action when the Eclipse's origins were revealed in the Empire At War game.

The Eclipse is in the new canon, but it's been downgraded to your regular Super-class like Vader's.

[basbash99]

Except Lando was linked to Bespin Awesome Stuff happened at Bespin. Tico is tied to everything bad about the Last Jedi. Canto Bight, stopping Finn from sacrificing himself (you may think he would have failed, but the general audience thought he would succeed) and the kiss.




But they were created by him, and that goes a long way.

Pretty much agree with Anthony W on this. Although i did like Rose' first scene, when she goes from gushing over Finn to tazing him a few moments later. Obviously JJ wanted to go back to "rebels good, empire bad" instead of Rose or DJ's "both sides are bad!" (and hey, at least Rose returned... DJ just disappeared, and i'm guessing we would have seen him again if Rian was directing ROTS). Similarly, i think JJ wanted his heroes to be self-sacrificing... the scene where Finn tries to intervene in the Rey/Kylo fight where Rey force pushes Finn away felt almost like a direct repudiation of the scene where Rose saved Finn, altho maybe i'm reading too much into it.

And then there's the side issue of merchandising. JJ probably thought introducing a few new warrior-type characters like Jannah and Zorii might sell more action figures than Rose who was not particularly a "ready for battle" character, nor a cool looking alien/droid. However, Jannah already seems to be pegwarming, (tbf most of the newer "human" characters' figures do, as well) ... Zorii might do better since she kinda has that boba fett-vibe going for her.

[AJBopp]

It's interesting how the knock on Marvel is they have too much control over the films and don't give directors creative freedom, and the knock on Disney is there wasn't enough studio control.

[Beaddle]

Nope, can't agree at all.



Still thought it was a weak point in the movie.

Correct me if I am wrong as my power rangers knowledge is limited since I stopped watching power rangers somewhere around Power Rangers SPD. But isn't the sixth ranger usually a more powerful ranger than the rest and as the series goes by the sixth ranger becomes more important to the story? I know this from the mighty morphin power rangers series, time force series and light speed rescue series.

Rose is not like a sixth ranger, she definitely is not as powerful as Rey or Ben. Last Jedi made her an add on extra, a character there to take away Rey from Finn. what the character did was show potential even with a less faltering story, what JJ should have done is tried to make the character better not sideline her for another new character to pair with Finn.

[Celgress]

I will say Kylo Ren/Ben Solo's character journey was the best part of the sequel trilogy by far, IMO. Kylo's character also seems to be the only one that was not at least partially derailed by TLJ detour (poor Finn and Poe ).

Oh, and Palpatine's demise just seemed and look silly and anticlimactic, IMO.

[mathew101281]

[Mia]

I've had many favourite scenes in this film. But I have to say that the majority of them are the personal ones which provide insight into the characters.

I have to say the one at the top of the list is where Kylo confronts Rey in quarters and tries to force her to see & relive the truth of her parents abandonment. It's fascinating to watch. You can not only see the pain on her face but feel her pain as well. How hard it must be for her to have to relive the fact that her parents cast her off. The rejection, the years of suffering, the lost childhood. Kudos to Daisy Ridley for the performance. But apart from the general insight into what she is like, I also find that it makes her so human and more layered. And yes like a flesh and blood human being who has feelings. Not just some plaster saint. Which is why I laugh at claims that she's a Mary Sue. Rey always struck me a woman who did what she had to do out of duty and because it needed to be done. Not because she's looking for a fight or she wants to prove something. Amazing.

[Powerboy]

Just saw it today.

There are some great things.

First, while I agreed with many of the political points from "The Last Jedi", overall, Johnson more or less ignored or "subverted" everything Abrams set up. I would go so far as to say that "Subversion" now apparently means, "Go against expectations just for the sake of going against expectations even when it is only unexpected because it makes no sense". Nevertheless, Abrams had a choice. Even though Johnson ignored and sabotaged everything Abrams set up, Abrams could have gone with what Johnson did. Thank goodness he did not. Unfortunately, that meant he had to spend a significant amount of the movie explaining away and undoing the stuff Johnson did.

Stoke was literally a creation of the Emperor (note cloning tank as the Emperor explains that). Ryn gets back into the mask (though, admittedly, that was a trivial thing to waste time on). Luke catches the lightsaber and remembers that he's Luke Skywalker, however many years removed, and not some other character. While I certainly agree that it is a good point that someone doesn't have to have a special bloodline to become significant, the first movie set up that there was a special secret about Rey's history. So Abrams did need to get his story back on track.

I suspect a lot of people who loved Johnson's departures will hate this movie and a lot of people will give it bonus points just for undoing Johnson's story. I'm in the latter category. Whatever stars I would have given it get doubled just for that.

But the story does far more than that. It utilizes some characters more than perhaps any previous Stars Wars movie. It does more with 3PO and takes him to a level beyond what we've seen before like he's actually a character that can grow while still being comedy relief. Chewbacca also gets more development which is pretty amazing for a character that can only growl.

I never really bought the Mary Sue accusations about Rey and always felt, even in the Last Jedi, that they were more about her being a scrawny girl whupping male butt than that she was any more unrealistic than Anakin or Luke or the movie Karate Kid or any character that in no time gets good enough to fight a champion that has trained for years. It's just that TLJ "subverted" (I now hate that word because TLJ has so trivialized it) her background.

It's not perfect. It needed to go the way of "Endgame" and be three hours long. It felt too rushed. There were meaningful and touching moments but most of them had to be rushed through and we didn't have time to thoughtfully or emotionally reflect upon them and they were not given enough time.

Rose is relegated to almost non-existence. She just makes cameos to remind us she is still there while doing nothing important as if Abrams realized she was so disliked in the second movie that he doesn't want to deal with her but also doesn't want to pretend she doesn't exist.

In some respects, this is a one hour movie because an hour, more or less, has to be spent undoing or retelling the second movie instead of going forward from the first moment. There's also the Deus ex Machina of the Emperor. I hate that sort of rewrite of history while claiming it isn't a rewrite. It instantly reminded me of the Beast Master television show from the late 1990s where, in the third season, the villain suddenly had this deal for power with a dark god and this was true all along but anyone watching the first two seasons knows it was made up out of thin air for the third season. This had that feeling. Oh, the Emperor was really alive and behind everything all this time but not a hint or clue of it until now but it was always true in the previous two movies. Maybe Abrams meant it to be hinted at in the middle movie but Johnson didn't care about furthering the story but scrapping it and writing his own story.

That's really the biggest flaw of this trilogy is that you needed the same person directly in charge of all three or at least someone who could maintain the same vision.

I really loved this movie. As I said, I suspect deviating from TLJ, by itself, makes me love it more. It had its flaws. Events were rushed. It had to undo or explain the previous movie. I loved the ending.