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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Usually I don't like people hand picking Canon but given we already had this era of the Star Wars Timeline as Canon that was approved by George Lucas himself and Disney not George erased that I think fans are allowed to treat Legends as Canon and Disney's Sequels as Corporate Funded Fan Fiction and vice versa if you like the sequels.
    That will be difficult because everything regarding Star Wars is going be built off of what’s happened in the sequels. The pillars of the original movies have been pulled down and we have what we have now (sad as it is).

    Unless somehow Disney sell off Star Wars to someone else but that’s probably never going to happen.
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  2. #77
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    No, the script makes the character, the actors/VA's work is to make sure how much of it could be delivered. There are some good surprises, but script is the most important thing.

    PT Mon Mothma is also mostly a background character in movie since their scenes were cut, but they still let Genevieve O'Reilly reprise her role and didn't even use her TCW VA.
    The script really doesn't make the character...that's just patently absurd, if that were true every production of Shakespeare would be equal(because they're all using the same scripts) and contrariwise we wouldn't have the saying, "X actor could make a reading of the phone book sound interesting."

    This isn't to belittle the writers, the entertainment wouldn't exist with out them, but it's a visual medium and we make our relationships with these characters and stories not because of the written words but because of the energy and personality of the actors we see on screen.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Palpatine apparently wasn't the only resurrection in the film.

    The Correlian Corvette/Blockade Runner we see is actually supposed to be the same ship, Tantive IV, first seen in the original Star Wars (The one in Revenge of the Sith is supposed to be a different ship, hence it's differences), according to the Visual dictionary. Apparently instead of destroying it the Empire just had it in mothballs until some guy found it, restored it, and gave it to Leia as a new mobile HQ for the Resistance.

    Got to wonder if Palpatine has all the Sith in his head, if Maul, Plageuis and Dooku-who he pretty much all betrayed-are in there. Obviously Vader isn't (although Palpatine did imitate his voice).
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  4. #79
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    That will be difficult because everything regarding Star Wars is going be built off of what’s happened in the sequels. The pillars of the original movies have been pulled down and we have what we have now (sad as it is).

    Unless somehow Disney sell off Star Wars to someone else but that’s probably never going to happen.
    You're forgetting that the old EU never actually went out of print. Disney just rebranded them as 'Legends' and continued to make money off them. So now we have the curious situation where Heir to the Empire has suddenly surged to the top of Amazon's book charts, outselling all the Disney era books. It seems as though fans are deciding for themselves which timeline is really canon and outright rejecting Disney's half-assed reboot. Perhaps then with time we may seen a return to the EU with new stories, that's where the real money is to be made and even a corporation as big as Disney can't ignore that fact forever.

  5. #80
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    You're forgetting that the old EU never actually went out of print. Disney just rebranded them as 'Legends' and continued to make money off them. So now we have the curious situation where Heir to the Empire has suddenly surged to the top of Amazon's book charts, outselling all the Disney era books. It seems as though fans are deciding for themselves which timeline is really canon and outright rejecting Disney's half-assed reboot. Perhaps then with time we may seen a return to the EU with new stories, that's where the real money is to be made and even a corporation as big as Disney can't ignore that fact forever.
    I personally think Disney EU is better. At least that concepts and characters from their EU actually makes their way to the films. Lucas never allowed that to happen with legends.

  6. #81
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I personally think Disney EU is better. At least that concepts and characters from their EU actually makes their way to the films. Lucas never allowed that to happen with legends.
    Plenty of EU material made it's way into the Clone Wars TV series, all under the direct approval of George Lucas. But that's always been the strength of the EU, ideas expressed in one media (be it novels or video games) were frequently reference in newer stories all the time. The EU will always be a richer and more enjoyable successor to Return of the Jedi then what all the resources of Disney have been able to accomplish these past seven years.

  7. #82
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    The movies are canon. 100%. And how is Rey like Michael Burnham?

    They are so different it’s not funny. Particularly after this movie. Kylo and Rey have a special connection, it was explained in the movie, what they do regarding each other is peculiar to them.

    And where did Jedi fly in the movie?? Doesn’t sound like you’ve seen the movie at all. Or Star Trek at all.
    As you always implied I had a problem with non white male lead characters even though I don't and I took my time to explain my issues with Rey or Michael, I almost did not want to reply to your post but I do feel vindicated now that star wars has collapsed. the racist sexist card Disney narrative that has played out for long has disappeared in front of their eyes and Disney can now admit the mess they made out of star wars.

    The movies are canon. 100%. And how is Rey like Michael Burnham?
    I know they are cannon, but I have no connection to them, I can easily just keep ignoring them. Palatine died in Return of the Jedi. Both characters are Mary Sues. As a trek fan, I call Micahel, Arc-Angel Michael, Rey is all demigod.
    They are so different it’s not funny. Particularly after this movie. Kylo and Rey have a special connection, it was explained in the movie, what they do regarding each other is peculiar to them.
    it was poorly written, I cringed when they kissed. I think Reylo had some potential but now it is worse than twilight. worse than anakin and padme.

    the kiss was JJ Abrams making reylo cannon for their fan base, (you get the fan service stuff, critics are hating on) for a second and quickly shutting it out. its the only way to explain the bizarre quick death. Also why didn't rey just heal him again? some words would have helped. that kiss is more of a gag reel, than the actual film
    And where did Jedi fly in the movie?? Doesn’t sound like you’ve seen the movie at all. Or Star Trek at all.
    the first shot of rey, we see her floating in the air. makes me wonder why Yoda never did that in attack of the clones, He used to use a floating sit.

    a4c258ed81d206f60562bef86f87cac7--revenge-movie-stars.jpg

    Rey Mary sue, can do what Yoda cant.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Plenty of EU material made it's way into the Clone Wars TV series, all under the direct approval of George Lucas. But that's always been the strength of the EU, ideas expressed in one media (be it novels or video games) were frequently reference in newer stories all the time. The EU will always be a richer and more enjoyable successor to Return of the Jedi then what all the resources of Disney have been able to accomplish these past seven years.
    Lucas himself discarded the vast majority of the EU before the prequel trilogy. Granted he allowed a few concepts to come in, he already discounted most of it.

    Disney is pretty much doing the same thing I.e picking concepts that aren't fucking stupid and are of use to the story being told.
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  9. #84
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Palpatine apparently wasn't the only resurrection in the film.

    The Correlian Corvette/Blockade Runner we see is actually supposed to be the same ship, Tantive IV, first seen in the original Star Wars (The one in Revenge of the Sith is supposed to be a different ship, hence it's differences), according to the Visual dictionary. Apparently instead of destroying it the Empire just had it in mothballs until some guy found it, restored it, and gave it to Leia as a new mobile HQ for the Resistance.

    Got to wonder if Palpatine has all the Sith in his head, if Maul, Plageuis and Dooku-who he pretty much all betrayed-are in there. Obviously Vader isn't (although Palpatine did imitate his voice).
    Continuing the resurrection theme, the planet in the opening scene in the movie is Mustafar. The events of the Vadar Immortal VR game had restored the planet previous ecosystem and movie followed up on it.

  10. #85
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    As you always implied I had a problem with non white male lead characters even though I don't and I took my time to explain my issues with Rey or Michael, I almost did not want to reply to your post but I do feel vindicated now that star wars has collapsed. the racist sexist card Disney narrative that has played out for long has disappeared in front of their eyes and Disney can now admit the mess they made out of star wars.



    I know they are cannon, but I have no connection to them, I can easily just keep ignoring them. Palatine died in Return of the Jedi. Both characters are Mary Sues. As a trek fan, I call Micahel, Arc-Angel Michael, Rey is all demigod.


    it was poorly written, I cringed when they kissed. I think Reylo had some potential but now it is worse than twilight. worse than anakin and padme.

    the kiss was JJ Abrams making reylo cannon for their fan base, (you get the fan service stuff, critics are hating on) for a second and quickly shutting it out. its the only way to explain the bizarre quick death. Also why didn't rey just heal him again? some words would have helped. that kiss is more of a gag reel, than the actual film


    the first shot of rey, we see her floating in the air. makes me wonder why Yoda never did that in attack of the clones, He used to use a floating sit.

    a4c258ed81d206f60562bef86f87cac7--revenge-movie-stars.jpg

    Rey Mary sue, can do what Yoda cant.
    How are you vindicated...word of mouth is pretty solid and it's looking like its going to do somewhere in the neighborhood of 190 million in sales for the weekend and there isn't any real competition so it's only likely to grow in sales...so yet another success for Disney.

  11. #86
    Mighty Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Okay, just having rewatched TFA-

    Rey said she never flew the Falcon before. I don't recall her ever saying she never flew at all. I know she stayed on the planet, but it felt like she had some piloting skills- probably from her speeder. Kind of like how Anakin could suddenly fly a starfighter after only ever having piloted Podracers in Episode I.

    Her innate use of the Force- again, Anakin did the same things to a degree in Episode I. He used the Force for Podracing. As for Rey's ability to use all of those abilities- well, I chalk that up to her being Poppa Palpatine's Granddaughter. Of course she'll be strong in the Force, and of course she'll start using abilities that she never had before.

    Rey beating Kylo... sigh. Kylo had just killed his father, and then had been shot in the side. He was wounded and distracted. Also, Finn got a shot in on him first before Rey got the lightsaber.

    And Rey did make mistakes, just not many of them. She did let loose the Rathtars on Han's ship.. but yeah, that seems to be the only real mistake I can think of in the first movie.
    They only established Anakin with good mechanical skills and they he was able to participate in Pod Racing. He did it several times...but never finished a race. At least this kid had some sort of practice. Rey just took control of the Falcon for the first time and was able to out-maneuver TIE Pilots

    Anakin wasn't mind controlling people, using telekinesis, and definitely not beating up Darth Maul. The only other Force Ability Anakin ever had (but it only made it to the book) was that he visions of the future. In his dreams he saw himself as a dark figure wielding some sort of fire sword.
    Last edited by Godzilla2099; 12-22-2019 at 07:28 AM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    As you always implied I had a problem with non white male lead characters even though I don't and I took my time to explain my issues with Rey or Michael, I almost did not want to reply to your post but I do feel vindicated now that star wars has collapsed. the racist sexist card Disney narrative that has played out for long has disappeared in front of their eyes and Disney can now admit the mess they made out of star wars.



    I know they are cannon, but I have no connection to them, I can easily just keep ignoring them. Palatine died in Return of the Jedi. Both characters are Mary Sues. As a trek fan, I call Micahel, Arc-Angel Michael, Rey is all demigod.


    it was poorly written, I cringed when they kissed. I think Reylo had some potential but now it is worse than twilight. worse than anakin and padme.

    the kiss was JJ Abrams making reylo cannon for their fan base, (you get the fan service stuff, critics are hating on) for a second and quickly shutting it out. its the only way to explain the bizarre quick death. Also why didn't rey just heal him again? some words would have helped. that kiss is more of a gag reel, than the actual film


    the first shot of rey, we see her floating in the air. makes me wonder why Yoda never did that in attack of the clones, He used to use a floating sit.

    a4c258ed81d206f60562bef86f87cac7--revenge-movie-stars.jpg

    Rey Mary sue, can do what Yoda cant.
    The people that are attacking Michael Burnham as a Mary Sue are likely racist/sexist. I have no problem saying that considering how flawed the character is. Shes far from a perfect protagonist, the only problem people have with her is shes a strong black female, something racists have problem with. And no, I don't listen to opinions from bigots off of YouTube that make hundreds of videos about feminism and SJWs. I have zero interest in listening to their fragility. If you could explain to me why Michael is too perfect without linking to bigoted youtube videos, I might understand where you're coming from better.

    There are female characters that could easily fit the cringeworthy "Mary Sue" (like Alice in the Resident Evil movies where the director is the star's husband) but Burnham is doesn't fit this and again I have no problem disproving this.


    Luke was floating at the end of The Last Jedi. Rey was also doing something similar. Force users have always used the force to defy gravity to a limited extent, like the Emperor straight levitating on the Republic chairs in Revenge of the Sith or Luke force jumping out of the carbonite machine.

    Now, the kiss was something that I didn't care for at all. I can't personally defend that.
    Last edited by Username taken; 12-22-2019 at 07:25 AM.
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  13. #88
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Anyway, I enjoyed the movie but opinions are all over the place.

    Star Wars is a funny thing, peoples opinions on them change over time. The biggest mistake Disney made was:

    1. Don’t always listen to what audiences say. The sequel trilogy was made with the mindset that they were going to move as far away from the prequels as possible because of the complaints. When they did this, people screamed it wasn’t Star Wars. They then course corrected and made Rise of Skywalker as a direct response to the divisiveness of the Last Jedi. That isn’t how to do it, for good or for bad, The Last Jedi has moved things in an entirely different direction, Lucasfilm should have continued on that path. I hated the Last Jedi but I also don’t want to be pandered to.

    2. Lucasfilm should have laid out a road map for the movies. When it’s all said and done, the only major thing the sequel trilogy accomplished was kill off the original protagonists without necessarily expanding the mythology. Granted TROS pulled in the most stuff from the EU (force heal, force life drain etc), it came a little too late into the movies.

    3. The characters were kind of wasted. There was rich story telling potential with a force sensitive storm trooper that moved to the light and the grand daughter of Palpatine being trained by Jedi Masters (if that was the original story) but The Last Jedi pretty much threw all that away and had Finn carry out a meaningless and pointless quest and Rey just seemed confused for majority of the movies because so much about her was kept a mystery until TROS. The characters weren’t allowed to grow organically and it hurt the story IMO. Yes, Rey is a Palpatine and got what looked like full training but she was still overpowered, she was basically god mode at the end (I guess the “I am all the Jedi was somehow literal).
    Yeah, I think lacking any sort of road map is what really hurt this recent set of sequals.

    If Disney/Marvel can do it with nearly two dozen movies then Disney/Lucus should at least be able to pull it off with 3.

    Not saying I hated the new movies or anything... they're all at least fun. But a bit more consistency in the direction of things would have been nice.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I think lacking any sort of road map is what really hurt this recent set of sequals.

    If Disney/Marvel can do it with nearly two dozen movies then Disney/Lucus should at least be able to pull it off with 3.

    Not saying I hated the new movies or anything... they're all at least fun. But a bit more consistency in the direction of things would have been nice.
    Exactly.

    I'm amazed that Lucasfilm didn't map things out before embarking on this trilogy. The idea a film maker could come in and throw out what the other did in a single trilogy is crazy.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  15. #90
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Lucas himself discarded the vast majority of the EU before the prequel trilogy. Granted he allowed a few concepts to come in, he already discounted most of it.

    Disney is pretty much doing the same thing I.e picking concepts that aren't fucking stupid and are of use to the story being told.
    If you could use one word to describe Disney's trilogy 'stupid' would certainly be it. In TFA Disney failed at basic world building, even at the end we have no idea how the Republic functioned or where the First Order got their resources from. TLJ made it worse, the lightspeed ramming attack basically broke how space travel works in Star Wars, never mind all that idiocy over a fuel source which has never been significant before.

    Then you have TROS which made a mockery of the Force, inventing new powers that would seem overpowered even in an episode of Dragon Ball Z. Plus, the erasure of the Skywalker bloodline is frankly an affront to the source material that even Disney loyalists are balking at. So don't tell me that Disney is better, you're standing on a pile garbage and trying to tell me it's a mountain.
    Last edited by Kintor; 12-22-2019 at 07:54 AM.

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