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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Default Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker (Spoilers)

    The Saga ends! But does it end well?

    Let the spoiler-filled discussion commence!

    Saw TROS last night and I've got mixed feelings. Feels like they overcompensated a bit for TLJ's mistakes and played it too safe. Abrams brings the story to a close in a way that's not going to offend audiences or blow them away.

    The banter is good and the Finn/Rey/Poe dynamic finally comes together even if they never got the development of the Han, Luke and Leia trio.

    Kylo Ren's character arc has the best payoff.

    There are things regarding Finn and Poe that leave you wanting more, which makes me wonder if they're setting up future stories or if the film was just trying too hard to cram everything into two and a half hours and couldn't quite get there. But Poe's shady past and Finn's relationship with other stormtroopers who defected are worthy of further development.

    The pacing is a bit off, with characters leaping from one action scene to the next without any time for reflection.

    I can see why Anthony Daniels was excited about TROS. Fans of C3-PO rejoice, he has some of the film's best lines. But he also has a huge emotional moment that is quickly reversed. Mileage will probably vary as to whether that's a good or bad thing.

    Lando is a joyous presence as always.

    There is a LOT of clunky exposition and they still don't answer the film's biggest questions.

    There are too many McGuffins. The thingamabob leads to the whatchamadoohickey that gives the secret location of the...eh, you get the idea.

    The visuals are STUNNING. Absolutely gorgeous. And the locales all have something new to offer.

    Luke's role is pretty minimal and I'll admit I was hoping for more.

    Palpatine's secret chamber has a horror vibe in the best possible way.

    Rey's big ancestry reveal is unsatisfying and raises more questions than it answers, but her final scene is a sweet, emotional sendoff.
    Last edited by David Walton; 12-20-2019 at 02:07 PM.

  2. #2
    Incredible Member Master Planner's Avatar
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    My opinion from another thread.

    I'm not surprised that the film is bad. The signs was there from Force Awakens. The big problem is that this trilogy is a shameless cash grab, a shiny product with a lack of vision and lack of direction. Force Awakens was A New Hope with some twists and add nothing new on the table. The Last Jedi tried to to something different, but it contradicts the lackluster vision of the first movie. The third one is Force Awaken, plust throwing Last Jedi out of the bus and with a bigger lack of direction.

    Tell what you want about the Prequels, but at least there was a vision and a world building, it wasn't an expensive and directionless mess.
    " I am Loki Scar-Lip, Loki Skywalker, Loki Giant's Child, Loki Lie-Smith. I am Loki, who is fire and wit and hate. I am Loki. And I will be under an obligation to no one."

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  3. #3
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    If I was kid and I had a bunch of Star Wars toys, and I was just playing with them and setting up scenario's, it would have been a lot of this. Palpatine's back, "I'm all the Sith", "I'm every Jedi", every callback, let's go here, now let's go here, now let's go here.

    It's just convoluted fan service without reason and any direction

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Ok just came back from it. I have to say I'm disappointed. Sure it's understandable since TLJ killed Snoke and left a mess with other things like wiped most of the rebels, but this movie still has its own fault.


    The climax sucks because of the personal conflict wasn't well handled. Both Kylo Ren and Rey were a swing and miss.

    Who was Kylo's main struggle? LUKE! But Luke was missing through the conflict with him. That has made his turn very weak. Snoke was also missing, at least he could show up as a Force Ghost because it WAS HE who turned him to the Dark Side.

    Who was Rey's main struggle? Palpatine! He was the one who responsible for her parents' death and her only relative..

    But Palpatine only appeared in this one and they didn't have enough interaction between the characters to bring up. To Rey he was a nobody other than keep manipulating her and killed her parents. He doesn't even have humanity anymore other than one or two lines.

    Kylo and Rey has different struggle, and they really don't share much parallel at all. They failed as the core characters. Nor was others helping much.

    Also how it was handled also sucks. All the struggle between Kylo and Rey was done after the battle in the Death Star II. But because Luke was missing, Kylo Ren's change was weak.

    And Rey already knew she was Palpatine's granddaughter and her parents were killed. All the twist were gone so the climax was weak.

    Let's look at OT, Vader has been menacing since EP4 and had a lot of interaction with Luke through the trilogy, the conflict and struggle was settled in both characters. Vader using Leia to cause Luke's outrage was the climax and made him so close to the Dark Side, then his decision turned Luke back to redeem Vader. It was tight, it was intense, it was nicely done.

    PT didn't do that well, especially Padme and Anakin's love. But at least we saw Anakin's difference with Obi Wan and the Jedi. His relationship with Palpatine as well. The finale was strong enough to show Palpatine's scheme and Anakin dueling with Obi Wan.

    The ending was nowhere close to EP3 or EP6 as well because the buildup and climax sucks. Also Rey has little to do with Tatooine, so it doesn't have the power like EP3's ending did. Her main struggle was with Palpatine so the Force Ghost of Luke and Leia doesn't help much.

    I also think this ending has a lot similarities with the MMO SWTOR's KOTET xpc ending. The throne and a massive fleet, the fight with Valkorion/Palpatine was also quite similar. Even KOTET was handled better because we had enough interaction with Valkorion before.

    Also the ship battle sucks compare to EP6 or RO.

    BEST PART: The voice of the Jedi, including my favorite Ayala Secura.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking; 12-20-2019 at 03:17 PM.

  5. #5
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    I had a ripsnortin' good time, but now that the saga is complete, my takeaway is...Disney doesn't share George Lucas's fetish for cutting people's limbs off.

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  6. #6
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    This movie was bad, like astonishingly so:

    The script is weak even by SW standards, it's a mediocre 90's video game plot essentially.

    The retconning and shoehorning in of stuff is sloppily done. Also trying to ignore most of TLJ but keep some stuff doesn't work.

    The characters are written very poorly and what a waste of a talented cast.

    Poor Finn. On paper he has one of the most interesting and emotional backgrounds of any main SW hero, and loads of potential for a compelling character journey, and a likeable charismatic actor playing him. But wow did they botch it at every turn, what a waste of potential.

    And they undercut a really sweet and organic dynamic between him and Rey in favor of Rey/Kylo, which was nauseatingly bad in this film. In fact those characters are written very poorly as well. And that kiss, no just no.

    That climax was so absurd, and not in a good way, that there were people laughing in my theatre. Rey embodying the entire Jedi Order. Bringing back all of those dead Jedi just to desperately try and convince us of how godlike she is now, complete with bringing Liam freaking Neeson back as Qui Gon just to beat it into our heads, and characters like Ahsoka, Kanan, Kanan, etc from other media being brought into the films finally as well, just wow was it laughably bad.

    Sheev's return is shoehorned in and isn't well explained and it completely takes away Luke and Anakin's last shred of victory.

    The direction is surprisingly sloppy for JJ.

    Etc.

    Few positives. Lando was used well, General Pryde was kind of cool, The actors are all really trying to make this work, especially Daisy and Adam, and, that'd about it.

    (Watches the epic and satisfying conclusion in ROTJ and sighs), why couldn't they have just left it alone? Or had the balls to actually move things forward?

    I still don't really like the PT, but at least Lucas TRIED to do some new stuff, there was ambition there. Not so much with the ST.

  7. #7
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Default Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker: What did you think (spoilers)

    I finally saw the movie yesterday, I wanted to take some time to reflect. Oh boy, I would have to say this is the worst star wars movie of the main 9 films. it felt like a very generic superhero movie or worse. It was very disappointing. I have never seen a star wars movie this poorly done, the movie had no story, the characters had no arcs, the villain is corny and terrible.

    The movie had action non stop, the music is all over the place, the force is now basically a magic that can do anything, many useless fan fiction plot points and fan services, the ending made no sense, the final battle was really cheesy, everything is soulless and of convenience. Yes, Rey is a Mary sue at this point like Michael Burnham from star trek, there is no more way I can spin it. Rey is a god, she can even give Wonder Woman a run for her money, basically jedis can fly, heal now and teleport weapons, which does not make any sense since attack of the clones and phantom menace shows that to be impossible.

    I can't believe JJ Abrams made this movie. the movie feels more like the Disney cooperate shareholders made the film to wrap this trilogy up and get it over it. its just a very disappointing movie, The Last Jedi is better.My grading will be a 5/10 or a C-. Star Wars is so over. this did not feel like star wars at all.


    My final star wars films ranking of the main 9 films.

    1. Empire Strikes Back
    2. Return of the Jedi
    3. Revenge of the Sith
    4. A new Hope
    5. Attack of the Clones
    6. Phantom Menace
    7. The Last Jedi
    8. The Force Awakens
    9. Rise of Skywalker

    I made peace with star wars a long time ago that this new movies are just bad and are not cannon, so no need to get worked up over them as a fan, however when you still see more bad star wars, it still hurts.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 12-22-2019 at 01:30 AM.

  8. #8
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Saw it tonight. I didn't hate it and had fun watching it in a vaccum. But as soon as you start thinking criticaly the movie falls apart for me. I mean I'm not a huge star wars fan. I've seen every movie and the shows but I dont have the reverence for the Orignal trilogy most people do. I mean I like them but I never thought they were amazing or were even great stories. Its more the world and the ideas Lucas came up with that I find interesting then the plots of any of the movies.

    Anyway I was never 100% sure what the force can and cant do. But this movie left me way more confused.

    Was Snoke a clone of The Emperor? Cause hes in a Vat of fluid at the Emperors cult club house and they mentioned dark sith science of cloning or some crap in the movie.

    Can everyone sense the force or are they suggesting that Fin is force sensative?

    The Emperors orginal plan, so if Rey killed him.... He was gonna posses her body and take over? Why didnt he just do that anyway. Ugh chalk it up to more things regarding the force I dont understand. Apparently you can posses someone against they're will.

    I hope they change time periods after this to a time when Jedi existed in larger numbers and nothing ties us to the Skywalkers. I enjoyed The force awakens but the last two movies had too many issues.

    Well I still got the season finale of the Mandalorian and I'm loving that show.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member whiteshark's Avatar
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    It was a great Star Wars movie to me.The force was for sure in Star Wars:Ryse of the Skywalker.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I finally saw the movie yesterday, I wanted to take some time to reflect. Oh boy, I would have to say this is the worst star wars movie of the main 9 films. it felt like a very generic superhero movie or worse. It was very disappointing. I have never seen a star wars movie this poorly done, the movie had no story, the characters had no arcs, the villain is corny and terrible.

    The movie had action non stop, the music is all over the place, the force is now basically a magic that can do anything, many useless fan fiction plot points and fan services, the ending made no sense, the final battle was really cheesy, everything is soulless and of convenience. Yes, Rey is a Mary sue at this point like Michael Burnham from star trek, there is no more way I can spin it. Rey is a god, she can even give Wonder Woman a run for her money, basically jedis can fly, heal now and teleport weapons, which does not make any sense since attack of the clones and phantom menace shows that to be impossible.

    I can't believe JJ Abrams made this movie. the movie feels more like the Disney cooperate shareholders made the film to wrap this trilogy up and get it over it. its just a very disappointing movie, The Last Jedi is better.My grading will be a 5/10 or a C-. Star Wars is so over. this did not feel like star wars at all.


    My final star wars films ranking of the main 9 films.

    1. Empire Strikes Back
    2. Return of the Jedi
    3. Revenge of the Sith
    4. A new Hope
    5. Attack of the Clones
    6. Phantom Menace
    7. The Last Jedi
    8. The Force Awakens
    9. Rise of Skywalker

    I made peace with star wars a long time ago that this new movies are just bad and are not cannon, so no need to get worked up over them as a fan, however when you still see more bad star wars, it still hurts.
    The movies are canon. 100%. And how is Rey like Michael Burnham?

    They are so different it’s not funny. Particularly after this movie. Kylo and Rey have a special connection, it was explained in the movie, what they do regarding each other is peculiar to them.

    And where did Jedi fly in the movie?? Doesn’t sound like you’ve seen the movie at all. Or Star Trek at all.
    Last edited by Username taken; 12-22-2019 at 05:13 AM.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  11. #11
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    Anyway, I enjoyed the movie but opinions are all over the place.

    Star Wars is a funny thing, peoples opinions on them change over time. The biggest mistake Disney made was:

    1. Don’t always listen to what audiences say. The sequel trilogy was made with the mindset that they were going to move as far away from the prequels as possible because of the complaints. When they did this, people screamed it wasn’t Star Wars. They then course corrected and made Rise of Skywalker as a direct response to the divisiveness of the Last Jedi. That isn’t how to do it, for good or for bad, The Last Jedi has moved things in an entirely different direction, Lucasfilm should have continued on that path. I hated the Last Jedi but I also don’t want to be pandered to.

    2. Lucasfilm should have laid out a road map for the movies. When it’s all said and done, the only major thing the sequel trilogy accomplished was kill off the original protagonists without necessarily expanding the mythology. Granted TROS pulled in the most stuff from the EU (force heal, force life drain etc), it came a little too late into the movies.

    3. The characters were kind of wasted. There was rich story telling potential with a force sensitive storm trooper that moved to the light and the grand daughter of Palpatine being trained by Jedi Masters (if that was the original story) but The Last Jedi pretty much threw all that away and had Finn carry out a meaningless and pointless quest and Rey just seemed confused for majority of the movies because so much about her was kept a mystery until TROS. The characters weren’t allowed to grow organically and it hurt the story IMO. Yes, Rey is a Palpatine and got what looked like full training but she was still overpowered, she was basically god mode at the end (I guess the “I am all the Jedi was somehow literal).
    Last edited by Username taken; 12-22-2019 at 05:28 AM.
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  12. #12
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Anyway, I enjoyed the movie but opinions are all over the place.

    Star Wars is a funny thing, peoples opinions on them change over time. The biggest mistake Disney made was:

    1. Don’t always listen to what audiences say. The sequel trilogy was made with the mindset that they were going to move as far away from the prequels as possible because of the complaints. When they did this, people screamed it wasn’t Star Wars. They then course corrected and made Rise of Skywalker as a direct response to the divisiveness of the Last Jedi. That isn’t how to do it, for good or for bad, The Last Jedi has moved things in an entirely different direction, Lucasfilm should have continued on that path. I hated the Last Jedi but I also don’t want to be pandered to.

    2. Lucasfilm should have laid out a road map for the movies. When it’s all said and done, the only major thing the sequel trilogy accomplished was kill off the original protagonists without necessarily expanding the mythology. Granted TROS pulled in the most stuff from the EU (force heal, force life drain etc), it came a little too late into the movies.

    3. The characters were kind of wasted. There was rich story telling potential with a force sensitive storm trooper that moved to the light and the grand daughter of Palpatine being trained by Jedi Masters (if that was the original story) but The Last Jedi pretty much threw all that away and had Finn carry out a meaningless and pointless quest and Rey just seemed confused for majority of the movies because so much about her was kept a mystery until TROS. The characters weren’t allowed to grow organically and it hurt the story IMO. Yes, Rey is a Palpatine and got what looked like full training but she was still overpowered, she was basically god mode at the end (I guess the “I am all the Jedi was somehow literal).
    Yeah, I think lacking any sort of road map is what really hurt this recent set of sequals.

    If Disney/Marvel can do it with nearly two dozen movies then Disney/Lucus should at least be able to pull it off with 3.

    Not saying I hated the new movies or anything... they're all at least fun. But a bit more consistency in the direction of things would have been nice.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I think lacking any sort of road map is what really hurt this recent set of sequals.

    If Disney/Marvel can do it with nearly two dozen movies then Disney/Lucus should at least be able to pull it off with 3.

    Not saying I hated the new movies or anything... they're all at least fun. But a bit more consistency in the direction of things would have been nice.
    Exactly.

    I'm amazed that Lucasfilm didn't map things out before embarking on this trilogy. The idea a film maker could come in and throw out what the other did in a single trilogy is crazy.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I think lacking any sort of road map is what really hurt this recent set of sequals.

    If Disney/Marvel can do it with nearly two dozen movies then Disney/Lucus should at least be able to pull it off with 3.
    This is my take as well. It's like throwing stuff on the wall and seeing what sticks each time, with little cohesion from one movie to the next. I wouldn't be shocked if the next trilogy somewhat reneges on this current output, which would be sad considering the legacy that spawned from the OT lasted decades and everything that's followed, imo, has never been able to live up to it, let alone match it. The movies don't need to be perfect but I feel like there's something fundamentally missing here. Individually, they are alright but as a whole? I don't think so. For all the faults of the prequels (they were many), at least there was a point to them, a clear direction even if it was the wrong direction, lol.

  15. #15
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I think lacking any sort of road map is what really hurt this recent set of sequals..
    They had a rough road map. what they should have done is get all 3 original directors of each movie. JJ Abrams, Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow to sit down and discuss their plans together.
    If Disney/Marvel can do it with nearly two dozen movies then Disney/Lucus should at least be able to pull it off with 3.
    Most and if not all Disney/Marvel with the exception of Hulk and Spiderman are not a good comparison to Disney/Star Wars, Disney/Marvel succeeded on ignorance of unknown supherheroes, ignorance of the reality that Marvel had sold all their well known characters when Disney bought marvel. Disney had to work with marvel characters nobody knew off, So Disney/marvel were able to get way with a lot.

    Star wars was already the greatest film series of all time, people knew the lore, they were not ignorant of star wars, even if they have never seen a star wars movie, they knew the pop culture references. there are grandmas who have never seen star wars but they know who Yoda is or know what yoda means when grand kids says, be my yoda nan. Disney could not rewrite star wars as they have done with the Marvel. it was always impossible.

    Not saying I hated the new movies or anything... they're all at least fun. But a bit more consistency in the direction of things would have been nice.
    But that's the thing to me, they are not even fun, they are just blah. maybe it goes back to the lack of ignorance that comes with star wars.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 12-22-2019 at 08:26 AM.

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