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  1. #16
    God Save The Queen! Mia's Avatar
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    Just came back from watching. OMG it was just so amazing. I honestly was not expecting it be that heavy or so deep. Contrary to what has been reported Abrams didn’t throw Johnson’s TLJ under the bus. He took concepts from concepts that Johnson used and built on them and fleshed them out. There was fan service in the film and box checking but none of it came across as forced. It’s been a long, long, long time that I have been able to go to a film and not just keep checking my watch wondering when they will get to the point.
    I was partly afraid that Disney would give into a bunch of vocal whiners who are mad that their personal fan fiction wasn’t portrayed on screen. But they stayed to the spirit of good storytelling and not only gave us a cracking good film, characters I found interesting but plenty of food for thought.
    Nice to see that Abrams listened to the good criticism (ie. TFA being little more than a re-tread). And ignored some of the more ridiculous bashing of TLJ. Like one reviewer said, Abrams didn’t break the box like Johnson. But he did try something new and couched the story in reality. And didn’t make it a facile cartoon.

    I was pleasantly surprised to see Jodie Comer (aka Villeneuve from Killing Eve) as Rey’s mother. It’s fitting that one of the most self-possessed badass women on tv plays the mother one of the most self possessed & badass women in films.
    I loved the film overall. But I would be a lying fan girl if I can’t say that my heart did not beat with pride at watching Daisy Ridley as Rey. She’s grown so much over the past 3 films. And just cements the fact why I consider her my top 5 favourite heroines.

    She’s gone from plucky girl who wanted to take down bad guys. To a mature and confident young woman who has found purpose in service to others. She’s grown into herself and become confident in her own skin. That is a true human being. For some reason I tend to gravitate to characters who end up being hidden royalty.

    Anyway I really, loved it. And I will probably see it again tomorrow.

    I'm not surprised that the film is bad. The signs was there from Force Awakens. The big problem is that this trilogy is a shameless cash grab, a shiny product with a lack of vision and lack of direction. Force Awakens was A New Hope with some twists and add nothing new on the table. The Last Jedi tried to to something different, but it contradicts the lackluster vision of the first movie. The third one is Force Awaken, plust throwing Last Jedi out of the bus and with a bigger lack of direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    This movie was bad, like astonishingly so:

    The script is weak even by SW standards, it's a mediocre 90's video game plot essentially.

    The retconning and shoehorning in of stuff is sloppily done. Also trying to ignore most of TLJ but keep some stuff doesn't work.

    The characters are written very poorly and what a waste of a talented cast.

    Poor Finn. On paper he has one of the most interesting and emotional backgrounds of any main SW hero, and loads of potential for a compelling character journey, and a likeable charismatic actor playing him. But wow did they botch it at every turn, what a waste of potential.

    And they undercut a really sweet and organic dynamic between him and Rey in favor of Rey/Kylo, which was nauseatingly bad in this film. In fact those characters are written very poorly as well. And that kiss, no just no.

    That climax was so absurd, and not in a good way, that there were people laughing in my theatre. Rey embodying the entire Jedi Order. Bringing back all of those dead Jedi just to desperately try and convince us of how godlike she is now, complete with bringing Liam freaking Neeson back as Qui Gon just to beat it into our heads, and characters like Ahsoka, Kanan, Kanan, etc from other media being brought into the films finally as well, just wow was it laughably bad.

    Sheev's return is shoehorned in and isn't well explained and it completely takes away Luke and Anakin's last shred of victory.

    The direction is surprisingly sloppy for JJ.

    Etc.

    Few positives. Lando was used well, General Pryde was kind of cool, The actors are all really trying to make this work, especially Daisy and Adam, and, that'd about it.

    (Watches the epic and satisfying conclusion in ROTJ and sighs), why couldn't they have just left it alone? Or had the balls to actually move things forward?

    I still don't really like the PT, but at least Lucas TRIED to do some new stuff, there was ambition there. Not so much with the ST.
    This just baffles me it does.
    TFA was a shameless money grab in being really nothing but a re-tread of ANH along with fan service in putting in the original cast. But I honestly don’t understand how anyone can call TLJ and ROS a ‘shameless money’ grab or a video game plot (really?) given the depth, nuanced storytelling, the messaging and the character development. And the really don’t understand how anyone can watch the last two films and accuse Finn of not having any development. TFA he was little more than comic relief and the white girls side kick. It was embarrassing to watch. In TLJ and (and I say this as a person of African ancestry who were brought to the new world on Slave ships). IN TLJ and ROS he was his own man and served a greater purpose than just dishing out one liners and being comic relief.
    Last edited by Mia; 12-20-2019 at 05:16 PM.
    • “Fame is a fools idea of glory. I prefer to merely succeed.”-Jaeger (Altered Carbon)
    • “Raging is my job. It’s hopeless, pointless & exhausting. And the only thing worse would be giving up.”-Seven of Nine
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  2. #17
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    One thing, they should have used Amy Allen the actor instead of Jennifer Hale as Aayla Secura's voice.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    It was a mediocre mess full of pandering fan service topped off by a return which was poorly explained, IMO. I've elaborated on my problems with this movie in other threads (and in real life) so much I've got nothing left. I'm exhausted.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  4. #19
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    What’s Fin’s secret? What was he trying to tell Rey?

  5. #20
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    This movie was bad, like astonishingly so:

    The script is weak even by SW standards, it's a mediocre 90's video game plot essentially.

    The retconning and shoehorning in of stuff is sloppily done. Also trying to ignore most of TLJ but keep some stuff doesn't work.

    The characters are written very poorly and what a waste of a talented cast.

    Poor Finn. On paper he has one of the most interesting and emotional backgrounds of any main SW hero, and loads of potential for a compelling character journey, and a likeable charismatic actor playing him. But wow did they botch it at every turn, what a waste of potential.

    And they undercut a really sweet and organic dynamic between him and Rey in favor of Rey/Kylo, which was nauseatingly bad in this film. In fact those characters are written very poorly as well. And that kiss, no just no.

    That climax was so absurd, and not in a good way, that there were people laughing in my theatre. Rey embodying the entire Jedi Order. Bringing back all of those dead Jedi just to desperately try and convince us of how godlike she is now, complete with bringing Liam freaking Neeson back as Qui Gon just to beat it into our heads, and characters like Ahsoka, Kanan, Kanan, etc from other media being brought into the films finally as well, just wow was it laughably bad.

    Sheev's return is shoehorned in and isn't well explained and it completely takes away Luke and Anakin's last shred of victory.

    The direction is surprisingly sloppy for JJ.

    Etc.

    Few positives. Lando was used well, General Pryde was kind of cool, The actors are all really trying to make this work, especially Daisy and Adam, and, that'd about it.

    (Watches the epic and satisfying conclusion in ROTJ and sighs), why couldn't they have just left it alone? Or had the balls to actually move things forward?

    I still don't really like the PT, but at least Lucas TRIED to do some new stuff, there was ambition there. Not so much with the ST.
    It missed both main characters' conflict point.

  6. #21
    God Save The Queen! Mia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    What’s Fin’s secret? What was he trying to tell Rey?
    I don't think it was a declaration of love. More like how she touched his life and added to it etc. He wasn't going to say something that mushy in front of Poe.
    • “Fame is a fools idea of glory. I prefer to merely succeed.”-Jaeger (Altered Carbon)
    • “Raging is my job. It’s hopeless, pointless & exhausting. And the only thing worse would be giving up.”-Seven of Nine
    • “You have the soul of a survivor”.- Girda to Alita (Alita Battle Angel)

  7. #22
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Trivia: I believe this is the first and only STAR WARS film so far to not feature any characters consuming any kind of food or drink.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Buried Alien - THE FASTEST POST ALIVE!

    First CBR Appearance (Historical): November, 1996

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  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    So I went and saw the movie today. I had read all the spoilers and was wondering if I should go or not, but then a bunch of friends made the decision for me so we went.

    To be honest, I actually enjoyed the movie a great deal. Quite unexpectedly. I'd go so far as to say that this is a movie that works best if you go in knowing the spoilers, because then you can take it for what it is and you can appreciate what it does for the characters. Abrams announcing Palpatine's return way back was a genius stroke since the whole out-of-nowhere-ness of Palps is rubbed out because audiences knew well in advance and they can just accept it on face value when the movie starts.

    spoilers:

    - To begin with, I don't quite think TROS is a total negation/reversal of TLJ. It is up to a point but the movie does build off some stuff that Rian Johnson did, such as Ben Solo and Rey's force bond and connection, which JJ Abrams uses to a lot of creative ends in terms of translocation of objects and elements from one space to another, and also as a set up for the end-game lightsaber switcheroo. That kind of stuff is a lot of fun to see on a purely conceptual level and visually it's quite a surprise to see fruit and stuff go from a market in Kijima appear in Kylo Ren's personal closet, and Vader's mangled helmet then appear in the market and so on. Luke going to hide in Aach-To and him getting stuck there, and Rey trying to imitate him and so on, is acknowledged and given a pay-off. We even see the porgs. Force Ghosts having powers and so on, also shows up here.

    - The stuff with Carrie Fisher worked better than expected. I mean obviously some of the seams show. But it's better than otherwise, and thanks to what Abrams did, TROS really does become Leia's movie the way TLJ was Luke's and TFA was Han's. I didn't think it was possible, but that's how it happened. The scene with her funeral is really devastating since you know it's really about Carrie Fisher's death and funeral.

    - As for Rey Palpatine (which for Spanish speaks, translates as King Palpatine)...thematically this simply works better overall than simply Rey being nobody. It makes Rey into a Star Wars protagonist in the same way that Luke and Anakin were. It makes the story about her, rather than about Kylo. I mean until TRoS, there was an argument that Kylo was the protagonist of the ST...but this movie makes Rey the actual protagonist of her story. Making Rey into a nobody from nowhere was one of those good-ideas-in-theory that simply falls apart when you realize that this deprives Rey from having a real edge and drive in the story, it doesn't allow her to have the special grand context with Anakin and Luke. Rey-the-nobody leaves Kylo as the protagonist of the Skywalker Saga and it deprives the first female trilogy heroine her place at the center of her own goddamn story.

    - As for the new characters, I have to say Richard E. Grant looks astonishingly like Peter Cushing's Tarkin, far moreso than the CGI Cushing in Rogue One, and I don't know why Abrams simply didn't make him Tarkin's kid. This character is so compelling that it's a damn shame that he didn't show up in the earlier films. Grant oozes the same sinister sociopathic bureaucracy that Tarkin did, but combined here with a personal zealotry to Palpatine. While I don't know if it worked out well for Poe Dameron as a character, I did like Zorii Bliss by Keri Russell, not so much for the character but for her costume design. The costume is really Star Wars-y with a helmet with a Daft-Punk visor, a weird red-pink jacket that's almost Powers Ranges-esque but not quite, and a touch of Captain Cody B-Serials.

    - What can one say about Ian McDiarmid's Palpatine. This movie cements him as the greatest villain in the Star Wars, and him becoming a Sith God is great. That bit where he unleashes galactic-level Sith Lightning...yeah it's a little more anime and not quite Star Wars but on the other hand it's one of the few times the actual Force abilities affect the battle scenes which otherwise are separate. Palpatine being a total bastard who murders his own children and parasitically leeches off his own grandchild is just a perfect metaphor for patriarchy. Palpatine is truly bottomless as evil. The entire Exegol setting is quite evocative of the rejected plans that Lucas and Kasdan knocked over for Had Abbadon, which was the Fortress World of the Emperor that was going to be the final dungeon of ROTJ but Lucas felt it was too complex and not quite what he wanted. The entire Sith chamber and the scene where Rey almost succumbs to Palpatine to save her friends has a creepy Eyes Wide Shut like cult atmosphere and it's more Lovecraftian and/or Darkseid's Apokolips in atmospherics.

    - I will agree that Kelly Marie Tran's character was unfairly sidelined. I see no reason why she couldn't have taken Jannah's place in the story. It could well have been her on Endor on a secret mission by the Rebellion and so on. As it is she's fighting by Finn's side alongside Jannah at the end. Anyway, I am happy that JJ had the grace not to kill her at least.

    - I am glad that Billy Dee Williams' Lando Calrissian shows up as the character he was in ROTJ. He absolutely should have been earlier.

    end of spoilers

    So mostly I think JJ did bring things home with this. As a third part to a trilogy, it's maybe a better conclusion to its trilogy than ROTJ was to the OT (which is not to say it's better than ROTJ, just that relatively speaking it might be a better conclusion to a trilogy). It's better than The Dark Knight Rises.

    As for where it ranks and so on in the Star Wars best-of list, I am not sure yet.

  9. #24
    Empty is thy hand!
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    Waste of Richard E. Grant.

    Otherwise, eh, when your plan is to have no story roadmap and separate directors, and your first director is the guy behind Star Trek Into Darkness, and then you give that guy a second movie, it's hard to be surprised when it all turns out to be a big mess. As a huge series fan, I remain grateful for the original six and all the great EU stuff we got out of them.

  10. #25
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    The retconning and shoehorning in of stuff is sloppily done. Also trying to ignore most of TLJ but keep some stuff doesn't work.

    Poor Finn. On paper he has one of the most interesting and emotional backgrounds of any main SW hero, and loads of potential for a compelling character journey, and a likeable charismatic actor playing him. But wow did they botch it at every turn, what a waste of potential.


    Sheev's return is shoehorned in and isn't well explained and it completely takes away Luke and Anakin's last shred of victory.


    (Watches the epic and satisfying conclusion in ROTJ and sighs), why couldn't they have just left it alone? Or had the balls to actually move things forward?

    I still don't really like the PT, but at least Lucas TRIED to do some new stuff, there was ambition there. Not so much with the ST.

    A few things...

    1. I did notice how they pretty much threw Rian under the landspeeder. Especially when Force-Ghost Luke caught the lightsaber.

    2. I felt like they were setting Finn up for a new storyline, where he'd be a Jedi in training. Maybe the next movie, if they decide to go there.

    3. It bears stating- this plot has been done in the comics. Palpatine's spirit survived his body's death on the Death Star II and fled to Byss, I think the Sith's homeworld in the comics. And he wanted to put his spirit first into Luke, and then later tried to possess Leia's son Anakin while he was still in her womb.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Have we seen a yellow-bladed lightsaber up to this point? I vaguely seem to remember one during the Prequels, but I might be mis-remembering.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

    Not in the live action movies, but there were yellow-bladed ligthsabers in the cartoons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I'm horrible at identifying voices when no faces are attached, so except for the obvious Yoda, which ghostly Jedi voices spoke which lines? Does anybody have a run-down on that?

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I heard Qui-Gon, Yoda, Anakin, and Obi-Wan. I saw in the credits that there was also Ahsoka and Aayla Secura, along with a few others that I missed.

    Tonight I watched it as a fanboy, tomorrow I'll see it again with a more critical eye. And I ended up sitting next to the greatest movie watcher ever, who was just so enthusiastic about the whole movie it was infectious. Overall I had fun, but I do agree that the pacing is off. It feels like JJ was trying to cram 2 movies into one here- things he would have done if he did the second one, and the wrap up of the third movie. Things happened so fast for 2/3 of the movie, the characters never really got a chance to breathe.

    I was worried about what we would get with Leia in this movie- JJ said he had left over footage from TFA, and I thought her performance was very hit-or-miss (mostly miss) in that movie, and that she got loads better in TLJ. Now I see that JJ cut all of her good acting out of TFA, and was therefore forced to use it here, to pretty good effect. There were times where I could tell that it was obviously a stand-in, and I wonder if JJ put Rey back in her TFA outfit because maybe some of these scenes were originally from TFA.

    Also- when they showed a young Leia and Luke training, they really missed an opportunity. Instead of the shaky CGI face we got, I would have loved to see Millie Bobby Brown under the helmet. She looks eerily like a young Carrie Fisher.

    Palpatine looked SUPER creepy. And I did see a few Snoke clones in some yellowish liquid.

    It was nice that Harrison came back one last time. I know why at the end they showed Luke and Leia together, but I think it would have been nice to see Leia, Han and Ben together as well.

    I know this film has flaws, but I never felt bored. That's much better than TLJ.

  11. #26
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    One thing, they should have used Amy Allen the actor instead of Jennifer Hale as Aayla Secura's voice.
    But then who would have recognized it? Amy Allen never spoke in the Prequels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    It was a mediocre mess full of pandering fan service topped off by a return which was poorly explained, IMO. I've elaborated on my problems with this movie in other threads (and in real life) so much I've got nothing left. I'm exhausted.
    Was it even explained? I was able to explain it in my mind, but I don't think it was ever properly explained in the movie. And I hated how his declaration happened off-screen before the movie even began.

    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    What’s Fin’s secret? What was he trying to tell Rey?
    Probably that he loved her.

  12. #27
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    But then who would have recognized it? Amy Allen never spoke in the Prequels.
    Use some iconic words, she is the actor, she deserves the right to do so. It's not like Amy's voice was bad.

  13. #28
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Anyone of you guys play SWTOR KOTET here? It's really similar to KOTET's ending.

  14. #29
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    I just saw it. Horrible, absolutely horrible. Just a convoluted mess with horrible dialogue and no clear direction. Disney should be ashamed of themselves. It was so bad it was laughable. I now have a newfound respect for the PT. What a mess.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    What’s Fin’s secret? What was he trying to tell Rey?
    He's Force sensitive. He's trying to tell her that he can feel the Force, as seen after she finished Palpatine and he feels her collapse.

    He probably wants to be her apprentice.

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