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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icefan View Post
    Earth 1985 is cool and all, but what I'd really like to see is an Earth 1991, a post-crisis world that branches off right before Waverider started screwing around with the timeline in Armageddon 2001.
    I'm not sure what my favorite point would be. It's different for different characters. Barry Allen in the 1960s. Dick Grayson in the first half of 1980s or last half of 90s (even though the Batfamily relationship-health went off the rails in post-COIE). Tim, Kon, and basically everyone their age in the 90s to early 2000s (prefer Kon in Hawaii). Barbara Gordon in the 1970s or the 1990s. Gar and Vic and Raven definitely early 80s (before their stories started repeating so much). Donna then, too, probably. But for Roy, I want Lian, who didn't show up until post-COIE. Definitely pre-COIE for Ollie and Dinah (though there's been some good Rebirth stuff and not all the pre-COIE was good, either). Ray Palmer of the earlier 1970s. Jaime Reyes in 2006. Early (pre-JLI) post-COIE for Ted Kord. Batman - prior to 1983. Pre-Hawkworld Hawks. And so on and so on. Impossible to pull from just one era in time and fulfill all my wants.

    I'm familiar with Armageddon: 2001 only in regards to the infamy of last-minute rewrite. Did it actually change anything in history/continuity that you like or is it just a breakoff point that you prefer?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Strongly disagree that assessment of the NTT. The original TT were the sidekicks to the JL (well, actually, Wally was an independent teen hero, not a sidekick and I'm not sure how to classify Donna) - they'd outgrown that by time the NTT came along. And those roles certainly weren't applicable to Starfire, Raven, and Cyborg. And they certainly did not fill a "sidekick" or "junior" niche during their most prominent era - 1980 to 1985. The non-Gar members were certainly grown ups by 1985, and Donna was married by then.

    While I don't especially mind them staying static, I don't think there's that much longevity for it for the NTT in particular. Other titles, maybe. But the very fact that they had growth and progression was a really big selling point for the title, and I'm not sure if nostalgia will work as an attractive feature with that big element lacking. It could.

    SNIP!
    I used the term "side-kicks" not in a literal way, but rather their "status" on an Earth that will always be set in the year "1985". Sure, there can be slight alterations here and there, but beyond that, that Earth ceases to be Earth-1985, imo. Now, you could have an "Earth-1994", which has an Earth that has progressed from immediately the. Crisis to Zero-Hour. Then you will have your Judas Contracts, your murder of Jason Todd, even your death of Superman story. That Earth might be the one you might be more interested in.

  3. #33
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    Here's an idea: it will always be 1985, as a year-long version of "Ground Hog Day". No growing up or old, and the NTT will always be the sidekicks to the JL.
    This is the best solution, no messing things up - no way you can make any change or progress on this iteration of characters that's acceptable to the whole old school diehard fandom.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    I used the term "side-kicks" not in a literal way, but rather their "status" on an Earth that will always be set in the year "1985". Sure, there can be slight alterations here and there, but beyond that, that Earth ceases to be Earth-1985, imo. Now, you could have an "Earth-1994", which has an Earth that has progressed from immediately the. Crisis to Zero-Hour. Then you will have your Judas Contracts, your murder of Jason Todd, even your death of Superman story. That Earth might be the one you might be more interested in.
    I don't know what you mean - the NTT were an independent team in no way under the authority of the Justice League. I do not think they were lower-status, really. Dick, in particular was as far out Batman's shadow as he ever got in 1985. Judas Contract happened in 1984. And certainly NTT had a much higher "status" in 1985 than 1994 from an audience perspective (nose-dived in quality after COIE). 1980s was still in its most famous lineup. And they clarified status early (NTT #4)
    NTT4.jpg

    I guess we just have very different perspectives on the 1980s NTT. The entire idea of the NTT as being "junior" or "sidekick" is antithetical to the very basis of the comic to me. One of the things I really like about it is that they weren't that.

  5. #35
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    No Killing Joke. Barbara becomes Batwoman. Dick is Nightwing. Jason becomes Batman and enlists a young hacker named Tim Drake to become his "Oracle" in the battle against crime.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    First of all, keep it in 1985. Sort of like Batman '66. Second of all, don't marry off Superman. He's already married in the main books. I want to see this stay more or less like it was at the time. Just better stories. DC had a lot of restrictions back then to keep the main books "kid friendly". That would obviously go. I believe good stories can be told with the pre-Crisis Superman if they had put the kind of effort into him that they did post-Crisis.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  7. #37
    Spectacular Member Icefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I'm familiar with Armageddon: 2001 only in regards to the infamy of last-minute rewrite. Did it actually change anything in history/continuity that you like or is it just a breakoff point that you prefer?
    It's basically the last big event before the the end of the Copper Age, giving way to a period broken hero tales like the Death of Superman, Knightfall and Emerald Twilight. I also like the landscape of the DCU at that time. Justice League America and Justice League Europe were active, you have L.E.G.I.O.N in the present and the 5YL Legion in the future, Titans and Hawk & Dove, Shilo Norman as Mister Miracle and Inza Nelson as Doctor Fate, Vertigo hadn't been sequestered yet, etcetera. Just a different feel than what came after.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I don't know what you mean - the NTT were an independent team in no way under the authority of the Justice League. I do not think they were lower-status, really. Dick, in particular was as far out Batman's shadow as he ever got in 1985. Judas Contract happened in 1984. And certainly NTT had a much higher "status" in 1985 than 1994 from an audience perspective (nose-dived in quality after COIE). 1980s was still in its most famous lineup. And they clarified status early (NTT #4)
    NTT4.jpg

    I guess we just have very different perspectives on the 1980s NTT. The entire idea of the NTT as being "junior" or "sidekick" is antithetical to the very basis of the comic to me. One of the things I really like about it is that they weren't that.
    I can see Bruce having these flashbacks.....





    Those panels are probably from the Golden Age, but when your little one is talking mad isht in front of your crew & his buddies....

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I don't know what you mean - the NTT were an independent team in no way under the authority of the Justice League. I do not think they were lower-status, really. Dick, in particular was as far out Batman's shadow as he ever got in 1985. Judas Contract happened in 1984. And certainly NTT had a much higher "status" in 1985 than 1994 from an audience perspective (nose-dived in quality after COIE). 1980s was still in its most famous lineup. And they clarified status early (NTT #4)
    NTT4.jpg

    I guess we just have very different perspectives on the 1980s NTT. The entire idea of the NTT as being "junior" or "sidekick" is antithetical to the very basis of the comic to me. One of the things I really like about it is that they weren't that.
    Fair enough...

  10. #40
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    I would just prefer if they acted like Crisis never happened. The JSA is on a Roy a Thomas inspired Earth 2 with Infinity Inc, and new characters like the new Mr Terrific, and Star Girl. The Levitz inspired Legion is in the future right after the Magic Wars aND Superboy (Clark) was bother a member aND the inspiration. Where Cyborg is a NTT and not a founder of the JLA, which is still in the Satellite Era. Geoff is the editor of all related titles because he is the master of nostalgia and finding and showcasing the iconic versions of characters.

  11. #41
    Always Rakzo
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    Earth 1985 is pretty much a Silver/Bronze Age Earth that was allowed to go on without COIE. This can be easily seen by the presence of the Curt Swan-looking Superman instead of the John Byrne one, 80s headband Supergirl, John Stewart as Green Lantern, Barry Allen as The Flash, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, Satellite Era Justice League members like Green Arrow, Black Canary, Zatanna and Red Tornado, etc.

    Is a pretty interesting concept overall. I would personally love to see how Barry's marriage with Fiona Webb could have been.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    Here's an idea: it will always be 1985, as a year-long version of "Ground Hog Day". No growing up or old, and the NTT will always be the sidekicks to the JL.
    I like this. Also John as the only GL since Hal was retired and Guy was in a coma.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 12-22-2019 at 01:46 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    I would just prefer if they acted like Crisis never happened. The JSA is on a Roy a Thomas inspired Earth 2 with Infinity Inc, and new characters like the new Mr Terrific, and Star Girl. The Levitz inspired Legion is in the future right after the Magic Wars aND Superboy (Clark) was bother a member aND the inspiration. Where Cyborg is a NTT and not a founder of the JLA, which is still in the Satellite Era. Geoff is the editor of all related titles because he is the master of nostalgia and finding and showcasing the iconic versions of characters.
    I know an Earth 1985 was shown...but no Earth 1985-2 was shown.

    I don't see any mention of Earth 2 being split every time Superman's origin changes.

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    - Hal Jordan in the League
    - Hawkman and Hawkwoman together without an insane backstory
    - Firestorm in his puffy shirt

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I know an Earth 1985 was shown...but no Earth 1985-2 was shown.

    I don't see any mention of Earth 2 being split every time Superman's origin changes.
    The purpose of Metaverse is to preserve every iteration of Superman, so as long as a Superman exist in that Earth it should be preserved

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