Earth 1985 - what would you like to see?

[scary harpy]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of unknowns as to the status of this Earth, as far as its relationship ship to inter-dimensional travel. It could be that "Earth-1985" might not have had a "Tale of Two Flashes" story, thus opening up that Earth to another Earth variant. That's what this discussion is all about.

But, as to your original question: "Earth-1985" should remain as preserved as possible, pertaining to the writing, art and editorial style of the DC comics of 1985. Moving beyond that risks the point of having an archived version of the pre-Crisis "Earth-1", imo. If that is not good enough, then there is always "Earth-1991" (Armageddon 2001), "Earth-1994" (Zero-Hour) and so on, if you want to see any significant progression of the characters...or not.

I like the idea.

My question: How did each of these events affect Superman?

If the event doesn't alter him in some way, then I don't think the earth is archived.

Actually during the Silver and Bronze ages almost all of the books had multi universal guest shots with the buzz word Crisis in the titles.

I also think that it should be allowed to progress slowly and naturally like it would have if CoIE never happened and they just kept writing E-1 stories

docmidnite, I love that idea.

[Restingvoice]

Oh gosh, you guys are gonna confuse me if you start naming the Earths by year.

Why does Earth-2 need to become Earth-1961/56? Is it because there's a current/New 52 Earth-2?

Is there a reason Earth-S need to become Earth-1939?

Remember the reason these Metaverse Earths were born was that a continuity change happen. If no continuity change happen, no new Earths will be born and the name won't change.

[Dataweaver]

True. With that said, a massive continuity change took place on Earth 2 at the start of New 52. If that doesn't warrant the creation of a separate “pre-N52 Earth 2”, I don't know what would.

But yeah; I'm not fond of using years to name worlds. We're stuck with it for Earth 1985 (which is named for the year that it becomes distinct from the mainstream timeline, not the year that the Silver Age started); but let's not compound the problem.

[Icefan]

I like the idea.

My question: How did each of these events affect Superman?

If the event doesn't alter him in some way, then I don't think the earth is archived.

For Earth 1991, Waverider interacted with Superman three times, each time pushing him toward a future that wouldn't have happened otherwise. The Metaverse would have forked off Earth 1991 to prevent that interference.

[scary harpy]

True. With that said, a massive continuity change took place on Earth 2 at the start of New 52. If that doesn't warrant the creation of a separate “pre-N52 Earth 2”, I don't know what would.

But yeah; I'm not fond of using years to name worlds. We're stuck with it for Earth 1985 (which is named for the year that it becomes distinct from the mainstream timeline, not the year that the Silver Age started); but let's not compound the problem.

What would you think of the original Earth 2 was archived with Earth 1985?

I think a copy of Earth 2 was merged with Earth 1 during COIE (with Earth 4, Earth S and Earth Q?). It would explain why we got only some of the heroes & villains but not all.

[Dataweaver]

What would you think of the original Earth 2 was archived with Earth 1985?

I think a copy of Earth 2 was merged with Earth 1 during COIE (with Earth 4, Earth S and Earth Q?). It would explain why we got only some of the heroes & villains but not all.

My current thoughts on the matter:

Originally, Earth 2 was merged with 1, 4, S, and X to form the combined post-crisis Earth. Then Convergence happened, and the intervention of the Convergence heroes caused a split: one timeline where they merged, and another where they didn't. Earth 2 and Earth 1985 got co-opted into the one where they didn't merge, along with many others; and the Infinite Earths lived on alongside a combined Earth that was largely unaware of their existence. There was some limited interaction with the combined Earth: in particular, Zero Hour and the Kingdom featured interactions between the combined Earth and the Infinite Earths. But such interactions were exceedingly rare.

Later, when Infinite Crisis happened on the combined Earth, it pulled them into the combined Earth's dimension; and when New Earth was born, fifty one of the Infinite Earths got integrated into the Orrery of Worlds along with New Earth. But they were changed by the integration; and by the rules presented in Doomsday Clock, those changes resulted in copies of those worlds as they had been before Infinite Crisis. And so the Infinite Earths continued on again, still mostly separate from the Orrery of Worlds and its shenanigans.

[Ascended]

Not reading all these pages, so this might have already been said.

But...with Doomsday ending and revealing that after COIE, Earth One spun off into Earth 1985, preserving those versions of the character - and given how DC now wants to focus more heavily on the 'legacy' aspect of the DCU, and the multiple generations, do you think Earth 1985 could show up in new comics? And if so, what would you like to see?

What I want from earth-1985/Bronze Age/whatever is the same stuff I want from the other generations.

Respect the history and the characters. I don't mind some tweaks to continuity or whatever. That's fine. And I'm expecting and hoping that these generations can, if necessary, pick up "one year later" so we can see some organic evolution to the status quo. But don't swing a complete 180 on a character or event just for the sake of making it "shockingly different!"

But at the same time, make these different generations *actually* different. If the only difference between (random example) generation 3 Batman and generation 4 Batman is that his cowl is blue in one and black in the other.....there's no damn point. If DC is going to do this, then the different versions have to be unique and offer something the other versions don't.

If we have to have this ridiculous, overly complicated generation crap, then *use it!* What's the point of this whole thing if DC is just going to say "Yeah, those old continuities exist and we've spent years establishing that....but we'll never use them." I expect ongoing books set in different generations, mini's, and yes, the occasional crossover.

Again, contrary to my last point, I want crossovers between Golden Age generation 1 Superman and his modern Superdad counterpart, and all the other interesting match-ups this makes possible. But I don't want or need that to happen in every book every month. Let's not repeat the problems where you've got refugees from tons of earths on tons of other earths and no one can tell who came from where or what their history is.

I'm probably not gonna get this, but I'd also like a minimum of doppelgangers. We're gonna end up with tons of Batmen and Supermen, but really I don't want that. I'd rather see something where each earth, for the most part, has their own unique heroes. It'll be a lot easier to keep track if there's only one or two versions of a hero running around. But.....that's not gonna happen.

Finally, I'd really hope that lesser known heroes don't disappear because of this. If (and that's still a big IF in my mind) we see each generation get attention and books to call home, those books are going to feature the big names that draw readers; the Trinity and League, Harley, etc. What's gonna happen to characters like Vibe, Vixen, or Booster Gold? There's characters people love who aren't major names, and if DC has to give attention to 5 generations of Leaguers....where does that leave our beloved C-list?

[Dataweaver]

Quick nitpick: there's a difference between G2 and Earth 1985, just as there's a difference between G1 and Earth 2.

[Ascended]

Quick nitpick: there's a difference between G2 and Earth 1985, just as there's a difference between G1 and Earth 2.

Yeah, its "continuity overlay" instead of "multiple earths" or whatever. I haven't been to the LCS yet so I haven't read Clock 12 but from what I'm hearing, functionally there's not going to be much real difference. It's still going to be different versions of reality with different versions of characters having their own adventures and occasionally getting together for a big multi-world Crisis.

[superduperman]

In terms of what I'd like to see them do, my ideal situation would be an Ultimates type line that takes place on that Earth but it would probably sell better than the mainstream universe.

[Dataweaver]

Yeah, its "continuity overlay" instead of "multiple earths" or whatever. I haven't been to the LCS yet so I haven't read Clock 12 but from what I'm hearing, functionally there's not going to be much real difference. It's still going to be different versions of reality with different versions of characters having their own adventures and occasionally getting together for a big multi-world Crisis.

No; my point isn't that they're doing the Earth 1985 thing instead of G2; it's that they have Earth 1985 in addition to G2.

[Zaresh]

Wouldn't each new earth have their own versions of former earths because bassically their pasts are different than the previous ones? Earth 2 for the Earth 1 would be very different than Earth 2 from Earth post-Crisis, because, for example, Superman's story would've been different. Or New 52's Earth 2, which is clearer, with a lot of differences just with Superman and Wonder Woman backstory alone. Or do they share those earths between each other earth?

[Commissioner Wayne]

Why is it, every time DC attempts to “fix” their continuity, it ends up more complicated than before?

[Dr. Ellingham]

Why is it, every time DC attempts to “fix” their continuity, it ends up more complicated than before?

Because they know their longtime fans enjoy unpacking the puzzle and trying to re-assemble it.

[Lee Stone]

Why is it, every time DC attempts to “fix” their continuity, it ends up more complicated than before?

Because Person A goes "I have a great idea that will fix the timeline", and it really would fix the timeline...

Then Persons B & C come along and say "I think this would be a better idea", because my ideas are better...
And they break the stuff Person A set up.

Then Person D comes along and says, 'OMG, those egotistical dimwits messed up the continuity fix' and attempts to correct it, but breaks it more by changing something they thought insignificant.

Then we're back to the beginning with a new Person A.