Is Geoff John's throwing shade on Hulk's status in MU in Doomsday 12?

[Desmark]

DC 12 had a scenario posited by Dr Manhattan which seemed like a rehashed version of Chuck Austen's Gog arc where Doomsday was 'inspired' by Superman's example in striving to save him from the mad 'godly' Gog only using the corresponding Marvel characters. Did Geoff intend to throw shade on the Hulk's outsider status by cementing it further by indicating him perishing in a attempt to save the ultimate hero of another universe from the 'invaders' of the MU thus positing that the Hulk does not fit in MU and is forever going to be the outsider who does not belong?

[Midnighter]

DC 12 had a scenario posited by Dr Manhattan which seemed like a rehashed version of Chuck Austen's Gog arc where Doomsday was 'inspired' by Superman's example in striving to save him from the mad 'godly' Gog only using the corresponding Marvel characters. Did Geoff intend to throw shade on the Hulk's outsider status by cementing it further by indicating him perishing in a attempt to save the ultimate hero of another universe from the 'invaders' of the MU thus positing that the Hulk does not fit in MU and is forever going to be the outsider who does not belong?

I think the implication is that Doomsday dies ,not the Hulk.

[Robotman]

I saw it as Johns implying that the Hulk may be stronger than Superman. Doomsday killed Kal and Hulk is even stronger than he was. But Superman’s example of heroism and hope leads to the usually rage filled outsider (and sometimes villainous) Hulk to sacrifice himself.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

I took it as GJ hoping that DC and Marvel heads would get over their pettiness and do a crossover already

[Desmark]

I saw it as Johns implying that the Hulk may be stronger than Superman. Doomsday killed Kal and Hulk is even stronger than he was. But Superman’s example of heroism and hope leads to the usually rage filled outsider (and sometimes villainous) Hulk to sacrifice himself.

Which seems another subtle shade towards the whole sentry 'golden man'/Hulk dynamic.

[qwertyuiop1998]

I think the implication is that Doomsday dies ,not the Hulk.

Agreed, I think it was saying Doomsday dies for protecting superman. Because later mentioned "those invaders", It sounds more like Marvel characters role in this story

[Buried Alien]

I took it as GJ hoping that DC and Marvel heads would get over their pettiness and do a crossover already

It's not that simple; the last time DC and Marvel crossed over (JLA/AVENGERS), Disney didn't own Marvel yet. Even if DC and Marvel were 100% eager to get into bed together again, would their corporate parents (Warner and Disney) sign off on it?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Robanker]

I saw it as Johns implying that the Hulk may be stronger than Superman. Doomsday killed Kal and Hulk is even stronger than he was. But Superman’s example of heroism and hope leads to the usually rage filled outsider (and sometimes villainous) Hulk to sacrifice himself.

Except Clark has been shown to have Doomsday's number now. More solar radiation, I suppose. I think it was just a nod to "this guy could kill Superman," as opposed to "he's actually stronger!"

Although, a long time ago when asked which Marvel character he would steal for DC, John's did answer the Hulk. So maybe he does think Banner could take Supe's lunch money.

[manwhohaseverything]

Except Clark has been shown to have Doomsday's number now. More solar radiation, I suppose. I think it was just a nod to "this guy could kill Superman," as opposed to "he's actually stronger!"

Although, a long time ago when asked which Marvel character he would steal for DC, John's did answer the Hulk. So maybe he does think Banner could take Supe's lunch money.

Seriously, the solar radiation thing has gotten old years ago.I want it put to rest. Superman shouldn't beat doomsday by drinking more protein juice. That's just bad.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

It's not that simple; the last time DC and Marvel crossed over (JLA/AVENGERS), Disney didn't own Marvel yet. Even if DC and Marvel were 100% eager to get into bed together again, would their corporate parents (Warner and Disney) sign off on it?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think Feige would let them do it. But the problem is no one in editorial on either side is willing to.

[Robotman]

I think Feige would let them do it. But the problem is no one in editorial on either side is willing to.

I think the editorial teams at DC and Marvel would love to have a crossover as tensions have definitely cooled since the Quesada/Levitz years. It’s the issue of their parent companies. Disney and WB would never let their properties crossover in this climate.

[Robanker]

Seriously, the solar radiation thing has gotten old years ago.I want it put to rest. Superman shouldn't beat doomsday by drinking more protein juice. That's just bad.

That's literally his gimmick, though. He absorbs solar radiation and gets stronger over time, else why wouldn't he have his powers at birth? Modern incarnations of Clark generally don't have a maximum threshold for solar radiation, but I think he can only get so strong at any given moment from the radiation that reaches Earth. Over a long time, he likely does get stronger, but day-to-day must be the same. He's going to be stronger at 30 than he was at 25 for that very reason, and taking a sun dip is going to be pure radiation bombarding his cells so he would definitely get stronger.

How is that any different from the Hulk getting stronger because he's even angrier than before? In theory, all he needs to do is have someone drop some Legos where he'll be fighting and he'll get stronger with every step he takes. It's his gimmick. It's fine.

[Jon Clark]

It's not that simple; the last time DC and Marvel crossed over (JLA/AVENGERS), Disney didn't own Marvel yet. Even if DC and Marvel were 100% eager to get into bed together again, would their corporate parents (Warner and Disney) sign off on it?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Give it a few years and the merger madness could easily wind up with DC and Marvel owned by the same omni-corp.

[manwhohaseverything]

That's literally his gimmick, though. He absorbs solar radiation and gets stronger over time, else why wouldn't he have his powers at birth? Modern incarnations of Clark generally don't have a maximum threshold for solar radiation, but I think he can only get so strong at any given moment from the radiation that reaches Earth. Over a long time, he likely does get stronger, but day-to-day must be the same. He's going to be stronger at 30 than he was at 25 for that very reason, and taking a sun dip is going to be pure radiation bombarding his cells so he would definitely get stronger.

How is that any different from the Hulk getting stronger because he's even angrier than before? In theory, all he needs to do is have someone drop some Legos where he'll be fighting and he'll get stronger with every step he takes. It's his gimmick. It's fine.

No, it isn't. It became his gimmick after that explanation was put in. But, before that it wasn't. Superman shouldn't just get stronger on his own. That just takes the fun out of it.An explanation that is said to be more realistic. But i don't think so. KryptonIan physiology works better. Heck! Even the jon Carter-esque gravity thing has something going for it.


Hulk is a monster heel/face. He evokes different reaction. Hulk's anger is a constraint as well.he goes back to zero after every fight.Superman powerlevel only increases without even doing anything. It stays at that level as well. He doesn't go back to base. It's a problem. Not even literal the sun god can do what clark does. Yet he derives his power from it. On top that a little bit of red or green light makes superman incompetent. I hate that.