Which is the main DC universe post-Doomsday Clock?

[scary harpy]

Pre-Crisis E2 exists somewhere else. Let's call it "Earth-1938." Pre-Crisis E1 is Earth-1985.

The main continuity is still a Post-Crisis universe. Considering the minor Metaverse shifts and alterations, I would say that this is a slightly altered version of New Earth. The return of the Kents and the JSA basically get rid of the Prime Earth retcons that Rebirth didn't take care of, so at this point, it's basically just a slightly altered New Earth Post-Flashpoint.

OK. DDC#12 called it Earth 2; but a case could be made that that Earth 2 was destroyed the same way the pre-Crisis Earth 1 was, or that it persuaded in IC and got merged into the Orrery of Worlds and transformed. In either of these cases, if Earth 2 has the same “preserve the past” property that Earth 0 has, then it would do so at any point when it was destroyed or rewritten.

And likewise, it's possible that Earth 1985 also got roped into the new Orrery of Worlds by IC and was transformed into its Earth 1; but again, that would only matter if the copies don't have the preservation feature.

I figure that it's more than slightly altered; my guess is that it's now featuring the four-generation “new timeline” that DC has been talking about.

Makes perfect sense to me.

When Crisis Of Infinite Earths began, Pre-Crises Earth 1 and Earth 2 were split off into Earth 1985 and Earth 1938 respectively. This preserved previous eras of Superman. Just like when Earth 2 was split off from Earth 1 when Barry Allen discovered the Speed Force.

Then Earths 1, 2, 4, S and X (Quality) were merged. A new era for Superman - the Grimdark hot mess era. (Out of curiosity, when did this era end and a new begin for Kal?)

[Dataweaver]

Makes perfect sense to me.

When Crisis Of Infinite Earths began, Pre-Crises Earth 1 and Earth 2 were split off into Earth 1985 and Earth 1938 respectively. This preserved previous eras of Superman. Just like when Earth 2 was split off from Earth 1 when Barry Allen discovered the Speed Force.

Then Earths 1, 2, 4, S and X (Quality) were merged. A new era for Superman - the Grimdark hot mess era. (Out of curiosity, when did this era end and a new begin for Kal?)

I must stress that the fate of the original Earth 2 is purely conjecture for now, as is nearly everything about Earth 1985.

The end of John Byrne's Superman came in 1993 (I think) with Superman #200. In that issue (which was also the finale of the Futuresmiths story arc), time shenanigans resulted in the Man of Steel origin story being replaced by Birthright.

[superduperman]

I must stress that the fate of the original Earth 2 is purely conjecture for now, as is nearly everything about Earth 1985.

The end of John Byrne's Superman came in 1993 (I think) with Superman #200. In that issue (which was also the finale of the Futuresmiths story arc), time shenanigans resulted in the Man of Steel origin story being replaced by Birthright.

Agreed. Nothing has been done with any of these things yet and until it is, all we can do is assume. The assumption being that pre-Crisis Earths 1 and 2 are still out there somewhere until we see what they do with them.

[Mr.B]

Earth 2
Earth 1985
Earth 52
Earth 0

[Thor-Ul]

If I knew how to get in touch with Johns, I'd ask him. As I said, I don't want to conclude what I have; but without something more solid backing what Is prefer to be the case, I cannot in good conscience promote the idea that Earth 1985 is Clutter-Earth.

Agree to disagree, then.

It is amazing how overthinking is making people makes something that simple so confusing.

As I read it:

The original earth becomes earth 2.
In the crisis, earth 1 becomes earth 1985 and is "around", inaccesible until now. Earth 1985 is the Silver earth. Untouched by the crisis.

The idea of the Metaverse is than is the mainstream earth (now know as earth 0) changes, but an unchanged, unreseted version spawns and exists in someplace in the multiverse.

[CaptCleghorn]

It is amazing how overthinking is making people makes something that simple so confusing.

As I read it:

The original earth becomes earth 2.
In the crisis, earth 1 becomes earth 1985 and is "around", inaccesible until now. Earth 1985 is the Silver earth. Untouched by the crisis.

The idea of the Metaverse is than is the mainstream earth (now know as earth 0) changes, but an unchanged, unreseted version spawns and exists in someplace in the multiverse.

And my constant thought of "Why rename Earth 1 at all?" has no answer or explanation. The only real issue we have is whether Earth 1985 is a post Crisis Earth (which makes logical sense to me) or a renamed Earth 1 (which requires naming gymnastics). No one disputes there's an Earth 1 copy out there.

[Dataweaver]

It is amazing how overthinking is making people makes something that simple so confusing.

As I read it:

The original earth becomes earth 2.
In the crisis, earth 1 becomes earth 1985 and is "around", inaccesible until now. Earth 1985 is the Silver earth. Untouched by the crisis.

The idea of the Metaverse is than is the mainstream earth (now know as earth 0) changes, but an unchanged, unreseted version spawns and exists in someplace in the multiverse.

I don't think it's a case of overreading in this case. I read it the same way you did. No offense intended to CaptCleghorn who has been nothing but polite and reasonable; but I think the real issue here is personal biases and seeing what you want to see. As he has said, and I agree, it would be much cleaner if DDC#12 had referred to the preserved pre-Crisis Earth 1 as Earth 1 and had used Earth 1985 to refer to the post-Crisis Earth.

[CaptCleghorn]

I don't think it's a case of overreading in this case. I read it the same way you did. No offense intended to CaptCleghorn who has been nothing but polite and reasonable; but I think the real issue here is personal biases and seeing what you want to see. As he has said, and I agree, it would be much cleaner if DDC#12 had referred to the preserved pre-Crisis Earth 1 as Earth 1 and had used Earth 1985 to refer to the post-Crisis Earth.

Dataweaver and I both agree it's an issue of logic vs. text. Obviously both ideas can't be right and hopefully we'll get a definite canonical idea of what Earth 1985 is. But it does seem I am out numbered on this and I do accept that.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Another development you address is that the stories from the past are still there, like Earth-1985 and Earth-52, but then the story also has a real hope for the future. You’ve been playing with that idea throughout the series - the “past and future,” not only with Dr. Manhattan’s jumps through time, but also specifically with Johnny Thunder and Saturn Girl. It all part of this tapestry you’re referring to, right?

Johns: Yes. It’s about celebrating everything that’s come before and that is coming in the future.

Look, Earth-2 happened because there was a great era of DC Comics that needs to still exist and be there, because it deserves to be.

And that’s true for the Silver Age. I think the moment that Crisis on Infinite Earths created this new, main Earth - there’s an Earth-1985 out there that exists pre-Crisis and that carried on and evolved. Who knows what that world looks like now? It’s probably a really interesting world to explore.

And the same goes for Earth-52. You know?

And by the way, moving forward too. The DCU will change. It will continue to change, because that’s the nature of what it is.

And the Multiverse was built on - first created for - the preservation and existence of the first era, of the Golden Age. That’s what it was originally created to do, and it expanded from there. And it still does that.

So any era we’ve ever had, you can still revisit it. It still goes on. It still carries on.

Source: https://www.newsarama.com/48364-geof...-pancakes.html

[CaptCleghorn]

Another development you address is that the stories from the past are still there, like Earth-1985 and Earth-52, but then the story also has a real hope for the future. You’ve been playing with that idea throughout the series - the “past and future,” not only with Dr. Manhattan’s jumps through time, but also specifically with Johnny Thunder and Saturn Girl. It all part of this tapestry you’re referring to, right?

Johns: Yes. It’s about celebrating everything that’s come before and that is coming in the future.

Look, Earth-2 happened because there was a great era of DC Comics that needs to still exist and be there, because it deserves to be.

And that’s true for the Silver Age. I think the moment that Crisis on Infinite Earths created this new, main Earth - there’s an Earth-1985 out there that exists pre-Crisis and that carried on and evolved. Who knows what that world looks like now? It’s probably a really interesting world to explore.

And the same goes for Earth-52. You know?

And by the way, moving forward too. The DCU will change. It will continue to change, because that’s the nature of what it is.

And the Multiverse was built on - first created for - the preservation and existence of the first era, of the Golden Age. That’s what it was originally created to do, and it expanded from there. And it still does that.

So any era we’ve ever had, you can still revisit it. It still goes on. It still carries on.

Source: https://www.newsarama.com/48364-geof...-pancakes.html

OK, then. It appears I am incorrect.

[docmidnite]

Well obviously, the universe where everything is going on now. The Snyder/Bendis verse for lack of a better term.

[Thor-Ul]

And my constant thought of "Why rename Earth 1 at all?" has no answer or explanation. The only real issue we have is whether Earth 1985 is a post Crisis Earth (which makes logical sense to me) or a renamed Earth 1 (which requires naming gymnastics). No one disputes there's an Earth 1 copy out there.

Maybe by the same reason the original golden age era became earth-2, maybe, even if it comes before. Call it earth 1 would mean give it a relevance which had already lost. It was not more the main earth. You could say than in Marvel works that way, with earth 616, but this is DC and rules are different.

[CaptCleghorn]

Maybe by the same reason the original golden age era became earth-2, maybe, even if it comes before. Call it earth 1 would mean give it a relevance which had already lost. It was not more the main earth. You could say than in Marvel works that way, with earth 616, but this is DC and rules are different.

Marvel does work that way with Earth designations corresponding to years of creation but in the Crisis TV shows (not comics, but still DC) the same year of creation being noted in the numerical designation was used. I realize my take was incorrect, but in my defense, I did have some relevant arguments.

[Stick Figure]

I think it’s fine if writers want to revisit a silver age Earth and tell stories with those characters. I hope that type of thing is done on an extremely limited basis. It will be harder for comics to evolve & move forward if we’re regularly taking nostalgic trips to old continuities. I hope I’m wrong but i just hope the “main” Earth is one that is fresh and doesn’t look back so much.

[Dataweaver]

That's actually getting into a different thread (Earth 1985 - what would you like to see?); but one of the things Johns said in his latest interview is that Earth 1985 is unlikely to be like it was back in, well, 1985. Time has passed — almost 36 years in the real world; unlikely to be nearly that much on Earth 1985, but it's still going to be further forward in time, with things having developed from where they stood in the wake of the Crisis (or maybe just before; who knows?).