Superman and Anime

[Prime]

I feel like that type of storytelling is what comics need

[manwhohaseverything]

That ain't gonna happen.Comics evolved from episodic storytelling ala scooby doo and tom & jerry.They are used as ip farms.It's not the story that sells in the case of comics.It's the characters.They adapt characters that were from 1930's repackage them.That's what they have been doing since get go.
Manga isn't sold on the basis of "Batman is popular".Manga is sold on the basis "Geez!Demon slayer has awesome emotional beats" or "one piece has awesome world build".On is sold on the basis of character.The other the story.

[Steel Inquisitor]

That ain't gonna happen.Comics evolved from episodic storytelling ala scooby doo and tom & jerry.They are used as ip farms.It's not the story that sells in the case of comics.It's the characters.They adapt characters that were from 1930's repackage them.That's what they have been doing since get go.
Manga isn't sold on the basis of "Batman is popular".Manga is sold on the basis "Geez!Demon slayer has awesome emotional beats" or "one piece has awesome world build".On is sold on the basis of character.The other the story.

Manga survives by being popular, that's why magazine anthologies have questionnaires to let readers fill out - the popular ones stay, the ones who don't get cancelled. They also have numerous lists for ranking characters and series continuously to know what's popular at any given time, they get this by the same questionnaires. Not the same format, but the same intent. Have you read Shonen Jump? Comics don't haves the same history or context in Japan as they do in the west. What passes for children material there would be considered adult here. For example, Super Sentai vs Power Rangers. Sentai is vastly more serious, mature and racy with its content while kissing and being in an active romantic relationship is verboten on PR. It's gotten so bad numerous actors openly complain about this at convention panels. The PR may as well be chaste monks, even when they're adults or college aged. I can't link to certain clips on Sentai because they're too racy from a Sentai series which was the base for a recent Power Rangers series.

[manwhohaseverything]

Manga survives by being popular, that's why magazine anthologies have questionnaires to let readers fill out - the popular ones stay, the ones who don't get cancelled. They also have numerous lists for ranking characters and series continuously to know what's popular at any given time, they get this by the same questionnaires. Not the same format, but the same intent. Have you read Shonen Jump? Comics don't haves the same history or context in Japan as they do in the west. What passes for children material there would be considered adult here. For example, Super Sentai vs Power Rangers. Sentai is vastly more serious, mature and racy with its content while kissing and being in an active romantic relationship is verboten on PR. It's gotten so bad numerous actors openly complain about this at convention panels. The PR may as well be chaste monks, even when they're adults or college aged. I can't link to certain clips on Sentai because they're too racy from a Sentai series which was the base for a recent Power Rangers series.

Sure,did i say other wise.That popularity wasn't a factor.The stories make characters popular.And the thing about a story is that it ends.Period.There story drives popularity which inturn drives business.That's the cycle.They have story first attitude.Story or character ain't working they end it or try course correct.Here,Some guy made something popular sometime ago.And then,popularity drives business which drives story.A complete opposite which is a shrinking market model.Here the character needs to stay around(so that they can make money of from it)That's why they tell stories.They don't tell stories,because a particular writer has something to say about something to a large extent.There are exceptions ofcourse.But,largley this is how it goes.

WB doesn't have the balls to go for seasonal/changing cast approach like sentai you mentioned.They wouldn't have the balls to end a series that sells.Demon Slayer,A Sales phenomenon just ended at the height of it's popularity(It just blew up all of a sudden).Sure,it might come back for with an entirely new season sometime in the future.But,it ended as far as the old cast is concerned.Tell me,would batman or superman do that?Nope!they will milk until the character is a shell of itself.I am quite aware of the censorship differences and cultural differences.Nowhere did i mention it. One of the main reasons watchmen is looked on fondly is because it ended.These idiots try to milk that as well.And they call themselves "creative".Soon even that will be entirely trashed or loose any meaning.Because thousands of "writers" pulling it in every which way.

American comics fandom is entirely based on "the superheroes".Espiecally the big two.They don't have variety in narrative or storytelling structure.They barely produce anything else.Even if they do by chance make something of quality.It would be niche amongst the niche audience comics already is.I blame greedy corporates that wanted to milk superman for that to a large extent.The characters popularity meant the death of other kinds of comics.

[Prime]

Comics are nowhere near as popular as mangas and don't sell anywhere near it as well. I'm just saying that that also an appeal that mangas have.that they end.

[manwhohaseverything]

Comics are nowhere near as popular as mangas and don't sell anywhere near it as well. I'm just saying that that also an appeal that mangas have.that they end.

It is.But,it would be nearly impossible for something like that with american comics.Superman or batman needs to be around for my gandsons "as he was" for my grandfather(i put as he was in quotes cause comics characters are repackaged/readapated again and again in a continual fashion and sold).That's the base mindset of american comics industry.It's basically pokemon type deal.Manga's have standard story telling rules.If you want to read kafka.you go to book stole and buy books that are written by him years ago.If you want DORORO,you basically go back and get osamu tezuka's original works.A manga is a one man's vision and voice.Superman, batman,spiderman,fantastic four..etc isn't.Jerry siegel,jack kirby,steve ditko..etc have no say in the characters they created.But,manga industry and fandom (largley)officially treats creators words as final.American comics promotes a collector mindset.Manga's promote more reader mindset.

One piece wouldn't be allowed to be adapted as netflix tv series without consent oda.If it did.It would create an uproar and people are already really sketchy about the whole thing.I don't think that would happen in america.DC can basically say "screw you alan moore" and milk the **** out of watchmen.Manga industry ofcourse have other problems like unhealthy and long working conditions and hours.Which isn't the case for american industry.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Sure,did i say other wise.That popularity wasn't a factor.The stories make characters popular.And the thing about a story is that it ends.Period.There story drives popularity which inturn drives business.That's the cycle.They have story first attitude.Story or character ain't working they end it or try course correct.Here,Some guy made something popular sometime ago.And then,popularity drives business which drives story.A complete opposite which is a shrinking market model.Here the character needs to stay around(so that they can make money of from it)That's why they tell stories.They don't tell stories,because a particular writer has something to say about something to a large extent.There are exceptions ofcourse.But,largley this is how it goes.

Your argument was that the manga market was not driven by popularity, which I disputed. Stories don't always dictate their characters being popular. Except when it doesn't - like in Dragon Ball and Pokemon. Who just won't die. Goku did die and still has adventures. Why do you assume it's the story which drives everything? Characters who are pretty and have tragic backstories are popular it's a cliche, like Sasuke. He took off before Naruto hit its stride. What are you basing this on? How many manga creators do this? Editors will intervene with their own mandates to get series on track, that's not exclusively up to creators. The comic industry's differences with manga's is more about format, culture, and distribution methods than story, that has nothing to do with why the American market is shrinking. What? No, every comic creator isn't doing it mostly for a pay check, if they wanted money for their ideas they'd go into media like film or books, creators go into comics because they love the media and the characters because they pay is horrible.

WB doesn't have the balls to go for seasonal/changing cast approach like sentai you mentioned.They wouldn't have the balls to end a series that sells.Demon Slayer,A Sales phenomenon just ended at the height of it's popularity(It just blew up all of a sudden).Sure,it might come back for with an entirely new season sometime in the future.But,it ended as far as the old cast is concerned.Tell me,would batman or superman do that?Nope!they will milk until the character is a shell of itself.I am quite aware of the censorship differences and cultural differences.Nowhere did i mention it. One of the main reasons watchmen is looked on fondly is because it ended.These idiots try to milk that as well.And they call themselves "creative".Soon even that will be entirely trashed or loose any meaning.Because thousands of "writers" pulling it in every which way.

That's not necessarily a blessing, and unlike the Rangers the Sentai have far more episodes on average. Rangers suffers since its made for cheap, and they refuse to expand into doing their own "Arrow-verse," when they have really could with the material. Many of their concepts have potential for more than one or two seasons, and rely on crossovers to be seen again and if the company is too cheap or the company has moved on - that's it. That's what happened to SPD, they didn't get a routine crossover with their successors and are lucky to get brief cameos. Manga also are fine with having spin-offs, like A Certain Magical Index franchise. Japanese corporations and publishers love to milk their IP's for merchandise and anything gets an anime they'll make them for years and years if they're able to. Movies, adaptions, video games, you name it they'll do it. But you insist that the context is the same for both markets when they're not. Except manga creators don't do that on their own, they get mandates from editors, input from companies who make their anime adaptions and have their own support staff. They're more the American comic bullpens from the 30's than you think in that respect. This is why Dragon Ball Z continued after Cell, where Toriyama wanted to end but was forced to continue and why GT was a thing despite Toriyama hating it. Manga publishers have enormous sway over what is done with the series and production, and they own the copyrights of the properties. Storylines continue and are expanded on in other media, like with Dragon Ball.

American comics fandom is entirely based on "the superheroes".Espiecally the big two.They don't have variety in narrative or storytelling structure.They barely produce anything else.Even if they do by chance make something of quality.It would be niche amongst the niche audience comics already is.I blame greedy corporates that wanted to milk superman for that to a large extent.The characters popularity meant the death of other kinds of comics.

True, but this ignores the reasons how the industry got into that place and why it's been difficult to expand. Narrative structure in comics has changed, widescreen and decompressed storytelling is very recent. Storytelling differs on the era and which sub-genre the comic is in. An 80's adventure comic, like Avengers: West Coast, is not identical to the 60's X-men by Stan and Jack. Marvel was who originally changed the media by making heroes more inclined to fight each other and have more drama, unlike DC. They don't have to, the comic division is a tiny branch in a large corporation. Quality goes up and down, but it is constant - quality isn't something that's too rare. That's, of course, subjective, if your tastes appeal to manga comic superheroes may turn you off, but even that isn't true of everyone - I like manga and anime, as well, and love western super-hero comics. It's not like manga aren't milked by their companies, Dragon Ball and Pokemon, for example. Every media relies on characters driving sales, it's a big thing in the Japanese market. Series live or die on their characters being loved.

[Will Evans]

One thing to note is that usually a theatrical movie of anime, is usually not canon at all, and is technically a filler story made from scratch away from the manga author.

[manwhohaseverything]

Your argument was that the manga market was not driven by popularity, which I disputed. Stories don't always dictate their characters being popular. Except when it doesn't - like in Dragon Ball and Pokemon. Who just won't die. Goku did die and still has adventures. Why do you assume it's the story which drives everything? Characters who are pretty and have tragic backstories are popular it's a cliche, like Sasuke. He took off before Naruto hit its stride. What are you basing this on? How many manga creators do this? Editors will intervene with their own mandates to get series on track, that's not exclusively up to creators. The comic industry's differences with manga's is more about format, culture, and distribution methods than story, that has nothing to do with why the American market is shrinking. What? No, every comic creator isn't doing it mostly for a pay check, if they wanted money for their ideas they'd go into media like film or books, creators go into comics because they love the media and the characters because they pay is horrible.

No,My argument was that quality of the story is reason a story is sold or gets popular.Here,It's just milking process.Batman sells cause he is popular.Not because every issue of detective or batman comics has great story.It is a bit of a team work.Editors do intervene i didn't say otherwise.But,The canon is determined by the author.That's that.Moreover,Authors who have tiffs with editors and have enough autonomy to quit or tell it to them.tite Kubo and his editor didn't get along if i recall.Batman,wolverine..etc are biggest cliches in the world.They are popular.I don't see how that's different.Death in Dragon ball z as franchise didn't matter.But,that's not the point.Toriyama ended the franchise with buu saaga.Goku left to train uub.It took 20 or something years for him to return for super.Super itself was someone else's idea which toriyama liked and expanded on.Even now,Toriyama has the final say in regards to what is dragon ball franchise as far as fandom is concerned.His voice has higher weight. GT was a thing.Which basically flopped.As said, there is reader mindset in manga audience.

[OopsIdiditagain]

That ain't gonna happen.Comics evolved from episodic storytelling ala scooby doo and tom & jerry.They are used as ip farms.It's not the story that sells in the case of comics.It's the characters.They adapt characters that were from 1930's repackage them.That's what they have been doing since get go.
Manga isn't sold on the basis of "Batman is popular".Manga is sold on the basis "Geez!Demon slayer has awesome emotional beats" or "one piece has awesome world build".On is sold on the basis of character.The other the story.

What about one-off manga-style books similar to the YA graphic novels DC has been making lately? Not necessarily connected to the main Superman timeline but still uses enough of his mythos so it's still recognizable to new and old readers. Would that work in the current comic climate?

[Frontier]

Having a beggining,middle and an endis not a bad idea. In fact not having that it's what hurts western comics the most.

Agreed. Even though One Piece has been ongoing since the 90s, the creator has stated he has an ending for the series. When that will be, I don't know. But he has one. Even the Dragon Ball franchise, as influential as it has been, was over for 20+ years before Super and Battle of the Gods came out.

My take on the "neverending" nature of comic book stories is just think how many character/concepts we might've missed out on had certain characters' run been curtailed or ended earlier from a perceived belief that their story was over or another writer didn't get a shot with that character.

That's why I just don't see manga as comparable to Western comics in terms of the Big Two.

[manwhohaseverything]

What about one-off manga-style books similar to the YA graphic novels DC has been making lately? Not necessarily connected to the main Superman timeline but still uses enough of his mythos so it's still recognizable to new and old readers. Would that work in the current comic climate?

I am not at all competent enough to speak about business and marketing side.I can only speak about the artistic side.As long as it has three act or five act structure and author has something to say with superman, and is competent in writing skill.The story could be quality.I believe there is always going to people that want quality content.I firmly believe, it's better if people don't buy the book because it has superman in it.It should be quality of the book that makes people buy the book which happens to have superman as protagonist.

My take on the "neverending" nature of comic book stories is just think how many character/concepts we might've missed out on had certain characters' run been curtailed or ended earlier from a perceived belief that their story was over or another writer didn't get a shot with that character.

That's why I just don't see manga as comparable to comics.

That's why some manga authors return with a new seasons or spin off.But ultimatley, creators have the say in what the character and stories are.Even the different writers that are appointed need permission to use them and usually have the creators as consultants.Dragon ball super has toriyama(it took years for him to return).Boruto had kishimoto(who is back permanently).The three act structure is basically kept as well.

[Frontier]

That's why some manga authors return with a new seasons or spin off.But ultimatley, creators have the say in what the character and stories are.Even the different writers that are appointed need permission to use them and usually have the creators as consultants.Dragon ball super has toriyama(it took years for him to return).Boruto had kishimoto(who is back permanently).The three act structure is basically kept as well.

I think Big Two comics are more comparable to installments of the Universal Century timeline in Gundam that Yoshiyuki Tomino had nothing to do with.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think Big Two comics are more comparable to installments of the Universal Century timeline in Gundam that Yoshiyuki Tomino had nothing to do with.

Yeah!true, but it still followed a seasonal approach. I am not saying there aren't franchises like that.But,the creators atleast have a choice there. I have mentioned pokemon as well. The post was to show that if an author had something to say with the character. They would return. Otherwise, if anyone else has an idea they just need to pitch. The difference between creator and company is that.Creator will be more critical, he would have a love/relationship with the characters, stories... Etc and would have an understanding of the character. The company suits would only have superficial attachment if any. Their goal would be primarily making money. The JL theatrical cut is an example of a soulless entity thus being created.

Always knew superman and sun wukong were alike. This settles it. Lol!

[OopsIdiditagain]

So I've often wondered what it is about the Man of Tomorrow that many fans or detractors like to compare him to anime characters. Primarily Goku, but also One Punch Man, All Might and many of their supporting cast. More than any other comic book character, I see lots of people pit Clark against them or argue he (or just now Jon) essentially take some of their attributes so as to improve the character as opposed to the influence of their direct peers or contemporaries. In lieu of Doomsday Clock, more and more I've been wondering why Superman is one character that arguably has a more defined world, characterization and status quo (unlike the regularly upended situation Diana finds herself in) but gets tampered with endlessly and anime does seem a common pull in that discussion.

Some of it must come from Superman's reputation as the biggest or strongest hero, and how some are inspired by him (Goku, All Might), but why does Superman get his foot into anime whereas other characters (Flash, Supergirl, GL, Wonder Woman) do not? What about our strange visitor from another planet seems to appeal to anime sensibilities, or at the very least, fans of anime and manga?

While Wonder Woman hasn't directly inspired any Anime heroes, she's the first DC hero that genuinely reminded me of anime characters like Naruto and Ichigo.