Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 227
  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    7,262

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    I saw this panel from the last issue of Batman/Superman where Superman says he doesn't enjoy fighting and I thought that's another thing that separates Superman from a traditional shonen protagonist. Goku wants to fight strong opponents, Luffy wants to be the Pirate King, Naruto wants to be Hokage, Natsu wants to be the strongest etc. Most shonen protagonists like fighting against both enemies and friends because they enjoy the rush of battle and it allows them to test their limits. In contrast, Clark was raised not to relish violence so he doesn't have that warrior instinct that a lot of shonen protagonists have. He only fights to protect others. There are of course instances where he spars against other heroes like Wonder Woman or Starman but these are very rare. Most shonen protagonists want to be the strongest/greatest person in their world whereas Superman doesn't want glory, he wants to make the world a better place.
    Ukog didn't like fighting either. And was a whiny high schooler.

  2. #47
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    6,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    I saw this panel from the last issue of Batman/Superman where Superman says he doesn't enjoy fighting and I thought that's another thing that separates Superman from a traditional shonen protagonist.
    This is the kinda dumb nonsense I am talking about.If modern superman doesn't like physicality or a good spar he shouldn't be in action comics.it is as simple as that.Action comics should be about action .if the guy ain't an action hero or action is not priority , give the title to actual action characters. As for,wanting stuff.when has clark ever wanted stuff.yeah!in bronze age,a family.the guy doesn't have a life .he is too much of a saint to actually want something .sheesh!I have seen non violent characters have action sequences like in vinland saga.yet,superman is "Lois left me boohoo!".yuck!You don't need to be a warrior or what not to love physicality. The guy seriously has muscles of hot air that aren't worth anything. So much for being a strongman.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-05-2020 at 09:20 PM.

  3. #48
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    I saw this panel from the last issue of Batman/Superman where Superman says he doesn't enjoy fighting and I thought that's another thing that separates Superman from a traditional shonen protagonist. Goku wants to fight strong opponents, Luffy wants to be the Pirate King, Naruto wants to be Hokage, Natsu wants to be the strongest etc. Most shonen protagonists like fighting against both enemies and friends because they enjoy the rush of battle and it allows them to test their limits. In contrast, Clark was raised not to relish violence so he doesn't have that warrior instinct that a lot of shonen protagonists have. He only fights to protect others. There are of course instances where he spars against other heroes like Wonder Woman or Starman but these are very rare. Most shonen protagonists want to be the strongest/greatest person in their world whereas Superman doesn't want glory, he wants to make the world a better place.
    I think that's why the difference between Shonen protagonist and Superman is really apparent. I mean I can attest this and there is no character in Japan that is similar or actually really feels like Superman. There is no one like him there. Superman doesn't have a goal or something like that. He just want to help people as it's. He is not destined to be the best Superhero or the strongest hero, he just want to help people and that's why he want to become a Superman. That's simple and to me more human than Goku or Luffy could ever hope to be.

  4. #49
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Ukog didn't like fighting either. And was a whiny high schooler.
    Lol, not gonna lie you get a laugh from me there.

  5. #50
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    6,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    That's simple and to me more human than Goku or Luffy could ever hope to be.
    That's not human.Normal People want things. Everyone wants something in their life. One piece's entire story is about dreams(ring any bells) and its a laughtale or imaginary story.luffy is more like goldenage superman than postcrisis version, that's for sure. One piece has similar themes to superman than any story, period. One punch man does hero work for fun, no tragic backstory or stuff like that. He does the morality plays of a limitless being. It has both humour and sarcasm. Moreover, superman does the right thing because its the right thing to do.Helping people was not his motive. He helps people because its the rightthing to do. Allmight is the same. He is the champion of his people. Allmight vs all for one is everything a death of superman story should have been.Superman having nothing in common with Japanese heroes is false.Heck!astroboy has influenced by Superman. Superman stories just don't focus on action and more on drama. That's it. Btw, allmight unlike superman doesn't hide the fact that he is strongman.

  6. #51
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    That's not human.Normal People want things. Everyone wants something in their life. One piece's entire story is about dreams(ring any bells) and its a laughtale or imaginary story.luffy is more like goldenage superman than postcrisis version, that's for sure. One piece has similar themes to superman than any story, period. One punch man does hero work for fun, no tragic backstory or stuff like that. He does the morality plays of a limitless being. It has both humour and sarcasm. Moreover, superman does the right thing because its the right thing to do.Helping people was not his motive. He helps people because its the rightthing to do. Allmight is the same. He is the champion of his people. Allmight vs all for one is everything a death of superman story should have been.Superman having nothing in common with Japanese heroes is false.Heck!astroboy has influenced by Superman. Superman stories just don't focus on action and more on drama. That's it. Btw, allmight unlike superman doesn't hide the fact that he is strongman.
    I quite agree with you at normal people want things and that's what youth is. Shonen manga at it's core is about boy's youth and it's dreaming about reaching something or becoming something. I don't mean what I said as that's less human than Superman, but what I mean the aspect of Superman as character is far more human and down to earth than Goku, Luffy, or any other Shonen protagonist could ever hope, because Superman stories are more into his human aspect than them. Superman, when he is at his best, is just purely magical, he is a character that can be related and yet so distant because how strong he is. You can see it from Superman: American Alien, Morrisson's Superman, Waid's Superman, Millar's Superman, Johns' Superman, and many more. He is a distant character because we won't be able to become like him as he is the most powerful Superhero out there, but he is relatable in aspect like us. He grow up like us. Feels like us at certain thing. Let his feeling cloud him and many more. That's the aspect missing from Shonen protagonists or manga protagonists in general. They are too into tropes and that's why it's making manga sometimes too painful too read because their characters are more predictable and making them too distant and too untouchable for us to relate. But that's okay, because they aren't meant to be related.

    Golden Age Superman is also different from Luffy, I don't know where you can take that explanation is. One Piece is a manga about human stories told through Romantism and adventures, while Superman is story about well Superhero. They have different genre and different demographic. One Piece is manga centered at young boys while Superman is flexible. One Punch Man sure is a hero about fun, but at the end of story it's gag manga and it's different from a bit serious stuff like Superman. All-Might to me is sure like Superman and Captain America, but he is missing an aspect that make them similar. Astro Boy is clearly had influence from Superman, because Tezuka at that time like with other of his contemporaries traces some elements from american comic books like Uncle Scrooge, FF, Superman, Doc Samson, and many more, so yeah they are of course similar.

    Oh and sure All-Might is unlike Superman that he doesn't hide the fact that he is strongman. But, to me that's such a shame. Because one aspect that I think Horikoshi forgot or just didn't think is Japan love a golden-age type superheroes IN not shonen heroes, but kamen rider and skull mask. I think All-Might would be better if he had elements of kamen rider and skull mask it's instead of Captain America lite.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    I think that's why the difference between Shonen protagonist and Superman is really apparent. I mean I can attest this and there is no character in Japan that is similar or actually really feels like Superman. There is no one like him there. Superman doesn't have a goal or something like that. He just want to help people as it's. He is not destined to be the best Superhero or the strongest hero, he just want to help people and that's why he want to become a Superman. That's simple and to me more human than Goku or Luffy could ever hope to be.
    That's definitely a sentiment I agree with, no shonen protagonist feels that similar with Superman in terms of their goals or ideals. However, the closest equivalent might be Deku or All Might from My Hero Academia. Kohei Horikoshi is a fan of American superhero comics and My Hero Academia has clear influences from that genre. Deku and All Might are probably the closest to Superman or the traditional American comic book superhero as far as their goals and desires go.

  8. #53
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    That's definitely a sentiment I agree with. No shonen protagonist feels that similar to Superman in terms of their goals or ideals. However, the closest equivalent might be Deku or All Might from My Hero Academia. Kohei Horikoshi is a fan of American superhero comics, and My Hero Academia has clear influences from that genre. Deku and All Might are probably the closest to Superman or the traditional American comic book superhero as far as their goals and desires go.
    I think it's funny that the characters that are supposed to be based on Spider-Man (Deku) and Captain America (All-Might) are closer to Superman than anybody else. Horikoshi explicitly stated that Deku's main inspiration is Spider-Man, especially the movie Spider-Man, while All-Might is Captain America, the MCU one. That really shows how Superman's influence in the Superhero genre is.

  9. #54
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    6,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    I quite agree with you at normal people want things and that's what youth is. Shonen manga at it's core is about boy's youth and it's dreaming about reaching something or becoming something. I don't mean what I said as that's less human than Superman, but what I mean the aspect of Superman as character is far more human and down to earth than Goku, Luffy, or any other Shonen protagonist could ever hope, because Superman stories are more into his human aspect than them. Superman, when he is at his best, is just purely magical, he is a character that can be related and yet so distant because how strong he is. You can see it from Superman: American Alien, Morrisson's Superman, Waid's Superman, Millar's Superman, Johns' Superman, and many more. He is a distant character because we won't be able to become like him as he is the most powerful Superhero out there, but he is relatable in aspect like us. He grow up like us. Feels like us at certain thing. Let his feeling cloud him and many more. That's the aspect missing from Shonen protagonists or manga protagonists in general. They are too into tropes and that's why it's making manga sometimes too painful too read because their characters are more predictable and making them too distant and too untouchable for us to relate. But that's okay, because they aren't meant to be related.
    In every one of those stories superman wanted things, maybe not in John's stories. American alien was clark going to big city to make a name for himself. He wasn't jesus christ. He was just a dude.He wanted to be top-notch reporter. Morrison superman is basically silverage superman who wanted acceptance, family.. Etc. Same as waids or millers.

    Yeah! I don't think so. We will just have to disagree. I get more goldenage superman from one piece than reading superman comics. I believe, Romanticism and new frontier-ship having nothing to do with superman is entirely false. Superman is the man of tomorrow. He is the pinnacle of romance dawn
    "There can be no happiness in a world where the undesirables are thrown away"
    Forgive me, but I see more of the champion of the oppressed in this. Man of rubber and man of steel, The L family and D family,"come along and bring along all your hopes and dreams", punching the corrupt strong... Etc. Luffy never preaches or gives speeches like that. He's the man of action(ring any bells) . He let's his actions speak. The superman was an outlaw working class guy who broke chains for the little guy. Guess what luffy is? He is the outlaw that wants freedom on the high seas that punches every wall in front of him. That's what it means to be the pirate king.

    To me, this is more goldenage asskicker superman than anything else. He would throw down the gauntlet against the entire world for what he believes to be right. He is the idealist.

    Also,superman is inflexible one who is stuck as a superhero. The character existed before superheroes where mainstream or where popularised. Yet! He is stuck as one while batman is now successor for characters like zorro, which is travesty . Dude! As if superman doesn't have absurd elements or humour. The character is literally modelled after a comedian, has done parodies, pocked fun... Etc. One punch man wouldn't have took on if it was just a gag manga. Superman literally wears a pair of glasses for disguise. So, i will ask. Is that not a sign of gag comic?
    Finally, i can give a page from death of superman aftermath and one punch man that says the same thing. Its both speaking about collateral damage.



    If your car is destroyed, then complain about the cause like doomsday or meteor. Don't try to put it against the guy that actually saved your asses and is the reason you are even alive to tell the tale. Just because it's a gag manga doesn't mean it can't raise valid points. One punch man wouldn't have gotten popular if it didn't say anything.

    What element is all might missing? I believe, superman is the one who is missing the strongman aspect that literally was about "Go beyond! Plus Ultra!!!!!". He is supposed to the guy that pushed his limits to outrace a train or punch beams or fly.

    this idea that Superman is just a guy that does good and harmless things because that's the popular perception. The actual character and history disagrees with you. Superman has themes in his stories. As you can see superman has wants like family, acceptance, better tomorrow,...etc.But,the problem is superman as character that started in action comics thinks being an action hero is beneath the character , atleast the writers and fans do from observation.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-06-2020 at 10:31 PM.

  10. #55
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    In every one of those stories superman wanted things, maybe not in John's stories. American alien was clark going to big city to make a name for himself. He wasn't jesus christ. He was just a dude.He wanted to be top-notch reporter. Morrison superman is basically silverage superman who wanted acceptance, family.. Etc. Same as waids or millers.

    Yeah! I don't think so. We will just have to disagree. I get more goldenage superman from one piece than reading superman comics. I believe, Romanticism and new frontier-ship having nothing to do with superman is entirely false. Superman is the man of tomorrow. He is the pinnacle of romance dawn
    "There can be no happiness in a world where the undesirables are thrown away"
    Forgive me, but I see more of the champion of the oppressed in this. Man of rubber and man of steel, The L family and D family,"come along and bring along all your hopes and dreams", punching the corrupt strong... Etc. Luffy never preaches or gives speeches like that. He's the man of action(ring any bells) . He let's his actions speak. The superman was an outlaw working class guy who broke chains for the little guy. Guess what luffy is? He is the outlaw that wants freedom on the high seas that punches every wall in front of him. That's what it means to be the pirate king.

    To me, this is more goldenage asskicker superman than anything else. He would throw down the gauntlet against the entire world for what he believes to be right. He is the idealist.

    Also,superman is inflexible one who is stuck as a superhero. The character existed before superheroes where mainstream or where popularised. Yet! He is stuck as one while batman is now successor for characters like zorro, which is travesty . Dude! As if superman doesn't have absurd elements or humour. The character is literally modelled after a comedian, has done parodies, pocked fun... Etc. One punch man wouldn't have took on if it was just a gag manga. Superman literally wears a pair of glasses for disguise. So, i will ask. Is that not a sign of gag comic?
    Finally, i can give a page from death of superman aftermath and one punch man that says the same thing. Its both speaking about collateral damage.



    If your car is destroyed, then complain about the cause like doomsday or meteor. Don't try to put it against the guy that actually saved your asses and is the reason you are even alive to tell the tale. Just because it's a gag manga doesn't mean it can't raise valid points. One punch man wouldn't have gotten popular if it didn't say anything.

    What element is all might missing? I believe, superman is the one who is missing the strongman aspect that literally was about "Go beyond! Plus Ultra!!!!!". He is supposed to the guy that pushed his limits to outrace a train or punch beams or fly.

    this idea that Superman is just a guy that does good and harmless things because that's the popular perception. The actual character and history disagrees with you. Superman has themes in his stories. As you can see superman has wants like family, acceptance, better tomorrow,...etc.But,the problem is superman as character that started in action comics thinks being an action hero is beneath the character , atleast the writers and fans do from observation.
    ... Hm I think this is going to be a lengthy talk, because you are really, really having a weird perception of Superman here. For Superman and One Piece similarity, you are forgetting something. Superman might be an outlaw FROM our world perceptive, but in DC Universe he is a hero. In JL-Avengers crossover it's apparent that DC Universe see superheroes as heroes instead of vigilante like in Marvel and BnHA. So the notion Superman is same with One Piece world is laughable and aside Luffy is not hero. He hate hero remember. He might be a hero for to oppress, but he never does it for the good of people like Superman, he does it for HIMSELF. At it's core Luffy is guy that wanted to do whatever he wanted and believe, a main character that children love. He never did it for noble reason like Champion of the Opress, he did it because he feels like it. Nami and Zorro is usually the one with that thought. Luffy is not.

    Example? Alabasta. Luffy didn't want to meet Korza, instead he want to punch Crocodile, because that's the fastest way. Instead of posing as hero with Vivi and Korza, Luffy would rather fight Crocodile, because that's what he can do. It might be the right thing to do, because Alabasta is beyond help, but if we think about it Crocodile is still favored by the people of Alabasta at that time, if the stories dwelve more into the politic of Alabasta, Vivi and Cobra position might be in danger there. Not only Crocodile is the Shichibukai that has the support of the World Government, he is also having an armies and crews that is beyond what Alabasta can hold, so attacking him is idiotic. So to put it simple he just did whatever he wanted and choose to fight Crocodile, because he is angry. Angry at Crocodile for making Vivi crying and Toto's town dried up.

    Sure there is the element of Golden Age Superheroes there, but it's different from how Superman works. Superman will do it not in the flashiest way like Luffy is he will do it in children's caricature way and that is the flexibility of Superman. I think you don't understand this, but Superheroes comic book character is the most flexible character there is. They are literally like fanfic, but official. Superman as space cops? DONE. Superman romance comic? DONE. Superman slice of life? DONE. Superman went into another world as a hero? DONE. Superman adventure? Easy let's make him fight as gladiator in War World, people will love it. Superman with feels like Miyazawa movies? I can picture it. There are nothing that Superheroes can't be written, because Superheroes like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman is the foundation of any super powered main character. They are the first of it's kind and that's why every heroes out there are only copying them to a degree.

    Erza will never exist without Wonder Woman.

    Gaara will never exist without Sandman.

    Gundam will never exist without Valerian, Star Wars, and New Gods.

    One Punch Man will never exist without Superman and... GAG MANGA. I think you don't understand this, but because One Punch Man is a gag manga that it tooks off as it is as a gag manga. ONE never wanted to write a seemingly serious manga, he just wanted to write a webcomic about superhero parody in sense of like Superduperman and other superhero parody. It took off and become a placeholder because it poke fun at something that Japanese pople never saw and finally Jump buy it and make it a real manga with YUSUKE MURATA of Eyeshield 21 as artist, and the booming that's happening is because of Murata godly art skill. Not because of the content. The content is as simple as Kochikame, Gintama, early Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Muscle, Kinnikuman or any gag manga out there. It's nothing worth talking. So One Punch Man is selling because it's gag manga. Like Mob Psycho 100 is also famous because it's gag manga with cool fight, though Mob Psycho is more serious than One Punch Man.

    Superman himself is parody or caricature of Ubermenscht as the first Action Comic has story about Reign of Super-Man, but I think that it also prove that the Superheroes genre is flexible because it can become whatever it needs. It will have silly things a la SilverAge, serious more to earth storyline like Modern era.

    So the page that you give is meaningless if the story and the author himself said that it's gag manga. The page there is actually for laugh that Saitama is really selfish asshole, sure he did break the meteor, but he is supposed to be a hero, helping people and there he just lashed out at civillians because they mocked him. That's poking fun at how ordinary Superheroes will help people like Astro. Sure he raise a valid point, IF HE IS NOT THE CAUSE OF IT that's the gag.

    All-Might is made in model of Captain America mix with Superman. He has the feeling of Captain America as Superhero rather than Superman, but he has the power of Superman. As a character he is a mentor character and that is a mistake. Superman is supposed to be example that we should strive. He supposed to be untouchable. But, All Might can be touchable by Deku and only Deku, and that's make him less mythic than Superman is. He is less Superman in a sense because Horikoshi need to ground him as a goal that Deku can touch, instead of aim. That's what missing from him.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,068

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    This is the kinda dumb nonsense I am talking about.If modern superman doesn't like physicality or a good spar he shouldn't be in action comics.it is as simple as that.Action comics should be about action .if the guy ain't an action hero or action is not priority , give the title to actual action characters. As for,wanting stuff.when has clark ever wanted stuff.yeah!in bronze age,a family.the guy doesn't have a life .he is too much of a saint to actually want something .sheesh!I have seen non violent characters have action sequences like in vinland saga.yet,superman is "Lois left me boohoo!".yuck!You don't need to be a warrior or what not to love physicality. The guy seriously has muscles of hot air that aren't worth anything. So much for being a strongman.

    "Action Comics" is just a title, do you think Wonder Woman shouldn't love fighting because she debuted in Sensational Comics #1? Not that action isn't a thing in Superman comics, it's not like DC's retconned him into Archie Andrews since Siegel and Shuster left. It's also a single ongoing title Superman's been the star in, but how Action Comics is put front and centre you'd think Superman had an ongoing outside Action. Superman's not an action hero, he's a super-hero - he's not John McClain. A super-hero who is constantly fighting opponents in every issue he leads in. When has Superman ever not wanted things? He's not a blank slate, he's very human. Superman has had families in his life on and off for a long, long time - there's a reason it's called the "Super Family," and DC has him marrying Lois and adopting or having kids every so often. He's also been ambitious in his journalism career, becoming a news anchor and getting a Pulitzer. Superman's not non-violent, he just only does it as a last resort which is very common among super-heroes. Superman's been pining for Lois since Siegel and Shuster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Siegel
    My wife Joanne was Joe's original art model for Superman's girlfriend Lois Lane back in the 1930s. Our heroine was, of course, a working girl whose priority was grabbing scoops. What inspired me in the creation was Glenda Farrell, the movie star who portrayed Torchy Blane, a gutsy, beautiful headline-hunting reporter, in a series of exciting motion pictures. Because the name of the actress Lola Lane (who also played Torchy) appealed to me, I called my character Lois Lane. Strangely, the characterization of Lois is amazingly like the real-life personality of my lovely wife.
    An early sketch of Lois by Shuster, modelled on Joanne Carter.



    Everyone sympathises with lead characters falling in love, it's a universal trait. But this is 2020, would you be ok with him doing that with a man or transgender character? Being asexual is also an option.

    Warriors and shonen protagonists are notorious for having passionate love lives. Conan the Barbarian, Yusuke, Goku all do this.

    Superman's feats in the comics dispute this.


  12. #57
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    6,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    ... Hm I think this is going to be a lengthy talk, because you are really, really having a weird perception of Superman here. For Superman and One Piece similarity, you are forgetting something. Superman might be an outlaw FROM our world perceptive, but in DC Universe he is a hero. In JL-Avengers crossover it's apparent that DC Universe see superheroes as heroes instead of vigilante like in Marvel and BnHA. So the notion Superman is same with One Piece world is laughable and aside Luffy is not hero. He hate hero remember.
    Luffy doesn't hate heroes. He loves them. He doesn't think of himself as one, nor do he wants to be one. He does want he wants. But, he acts more like a hero than many of the actual heroes. He also reluctantly granted jimbei's wish to be seen as a hero in front of fishmen.He is also very moral and has ideals. Which means he does what is required right. Moreover, goldenage superman was hundred percent an outlaw. His s was meant to piss of authorities. Dude! Superman was as flashy as luffy. Why do you think he was smashing the car in action comics #1?



    This is goldenage siegel and shuster superman to a t. This is what luffy is all about as well. Tell me this ain't flashy.

    in bnha superheroes are not vigilantes. They are government sanctioned entities.

    i never argued one punch man wasn't gag manga.i argued that the idea that gag manga can't say anything intelligent is false. Superman and one punch said the same thing.superman did it in a boring "fury of battle, 20-20vision...blah!blah!".One punch man said " tell it doomsday!!! You baldies!!!!" .I argued that clark Kent identity is a big gag and that superman iPhone has many absurd gag like elements.

    Depends on what you mean by that. Captain america never wore capes nor leapt over tall buildings nor was he a strongman.While, i acknowledge that cap or goku might have been a inspiration. Forgive me, people see superman in this.

    As for superman being invincible. Not really, superman was never invincible even at his peak as silverage superman. Mentorship? Sure enough you are right. Clark sucks as a mentor and has'nt done that. But, he has given direction to guys like legion, nightwing, flash,... Etc. With jimmy and jon, he has even done the mentor figure thing.

    Finally , you are arguing from what your notion of superman is or popular perception of superman is.Which doesn't mean fact or actual publication . I am arguing from a more what was in the book while adding my opinion on hypothetical scenarios.Either way, this idea that Superman isn't like manga heroes is proven false.He is a pulp action hero that debuted in action comics. He is more similar to these characters than any character currently in public consciousness.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-08-2020 at 01:56 AM.

  13. #58
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Luffy doesn't hate heroes. He loves them. He doesn't think of himself as one, nor do he wants to be one. He does want he wants. But, he acts more like a hero than many of the actual heroes. He also reluctantly granted jimbei's wish to be seen as a hero in front of fishmen.He is also very moral and has ideals. Which means he does what is required right. Moreover, goldenage superman was hundred percent an outlaw. His s was meant to piss of authorities. Dude! Superman was as flashy as luffy. Why do you think he was smashing the car in action comics #1?



    This is goldenage siegel and shuster superman to a t. This is what luffy is all about as well. Tell me this ain't flashy.

    in bnha superheroes are not vigilantes. They are government sanctioned entities.

    i never argued one punch man wasn't gag manga.i argued that the idea that gag manga can't say anything intelligent is false. Superman and one punch said the same thing.superman did it in a boring "fury of battle, 20-20vision...blah!blah!".One punch man said " tell it doomsday!!! You baldies!!!!" .I argued that clark Kent identity is a big gag and that superman iPhone has many absurd gag like elements.

    Depends on what you mean by that. Captain america never wore capes nor leapt over tall buildings nor was he a strongman.While, i acknowledge that cap or goku might have been a inspiration. Forgive me, people see superman in this.

    As for superman being invincible. Not really, superman was never invincible even at his peak as silverage superman. Mentorship? Sure enough you are right. Clark sucks as a mentor and has'nt done that. But, he has given direction to guys like legion, nightwing, flash,... Etc. With jimmy and jon, he has even done the mentor figure thing.

    Finally , you are arguing from what your notion of superman is or popular perception of superman is.Which doesn't mean fact or actual publication . I am arguing from a more what was in the book while adding my opinion on hypothetical scenarios.Either way, this idea that Superman isn't like manga heroes is proven false.He is a pulp action hero that debuted in action comics. He is more similar to these characters than any character currently in public consciousness.
    Okay, I think you are really taking strawman here, Luffy hates being a hero is what I meant. Luffy loves a hero if he is not being a hero. Remember he thinks the hero is the one who shares the meat and he will never share that. Besides, reluctantly agree? He agree the moment Jinbei told him that he will give him meat. Not because he wanted to do something right and that is the point that you are missing. Luffy never did it for a greater good, because if he did, he will never destroy Impel Down and Enies Lobby. Remember after the Marineford war and 3D2Y, Jinbei, Akainu, and Sengoku explicitly told us that because of Luffy and Blackbeard, the world is on fire because most of the Sixth level guys are released. But his response? He doesn't care, so he is not a hero definitely not a golden age.

    The golden age might be the age of rough hero, but they always did for the morally right thing to do or the greater good. Superman at your pages showed it, he did it as flashy, not in Luffy destroying everything flashy, but he did it for the greater good. Luffy on the other hand will demolish a town just to beat the main villain because he like it. Crocodile? Vivi and Toto, the whole island can be damned for all his care. Enel? He just wants to ring the golden bell and take all the treasure. Rob Lucci? They took Robin. Impel Down? He destroyed it because he wanted to save his brother causing a global danger. So in short, he is no hero, he is a person who just whatever he wanted. The people in OP world see him as a hero because the rule of that world. If he is in DC or Marvel he will be regarded as an anti-hero at most.

    I don't think you understand what I mean by mentor too. What I mean is mentor characters like All-Might, Kakashi, Yami, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and any other sensei character in shonen manga. They have a role in teaching the main character until he is surpassed. That's the way of Shonen mentor character. Now, Superman one of his defining moment is that he is supposed to be the ideal Superhero, he is supposed to be someone that can't be ever surpassed in-hero quality or in strength. The all-Might story is supposed to become an inspiration for Deku to become a hero and become a hero for himself. Not the Symbol of Peace or I want to be All-Might bullcrap. He supposed to just do what he does best, and that's the mistake on Hori part.

    The superhero doesn't work as work I want to be the best thing or I am the strongest there is. Superheroes in the ideal form of story work when they help people. A spider-Man defining moment when he help people by pushing his limit. Not when he punch Green Goblin et cetera, but by becoming a hero. I think that's the missing point of BnHA and All-Might in general, we never see him doing Superhero thing and in Vigilante manga that did Superheroing better, we see that the crawler is more hero than Deku could ever be. It also show how shallow the main BnHA character is. So to me All-Might is missing the mythic and superheroic thing. He is just another super powered dude, not a hero.

    Look I understand that I only talk about my notion of Superman and Superhero here and that's what it is. Neil Gaiman once said that "In explanation the beginning part is right, while the reason is wrong" and I agree with that. There is no notion of what true Superman is, because GA Superman is different from SA Superman and SA Superman is different from Modern Superman. The characters gain more evolution and change than HxH hiatus for godsake. But that's also mean because of that he is an archtype character that many character took notes in whether like it or not. So there is similarity, but too similar is drawing too much line I believe.

  14. #59
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    6,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Okay, I think you are really taking strawman here, Luffy hates being a hero is what I meant. Luffy loves a hero if he is not being a hero. Remember he thinks the hero is the one who shares the meat and he will never share that. Besides, reluctantly agree? He agree the moment Jinbei told him that he will give him meat.
    .
    While I acknowledge that luffy and superman have two different points of interest for their actions.luffy is driven by self-interest. Superman is not.Their actions would have been the same.why?as luffy has morals and ideals.Yes,goldenage superman will destroy Impel Down and Enies Lobby. Because the justice they serve is facade and tool of oppression. Superman is the guy that took on Hitler and stalin.Moreover,The one piece world was already on fire.People were just oblivious to the corruption and oppression of the system.how rotten it is.luffy just brought that out to the front.Goldenage superman would absolutely burn down the flag at Enies Lobby. He would absolutely punch celestial dragon.so on and so forth .why?because the alternative is oppression and servitude which is far worse.There is a reason superman is shown breaking chains.he is a gladiator.

    Fine let me take your argument as correct.luffy isn't like superman. What about monkey d dragon? I mean,he does do right thing because it's the right thing to do.he is the champion of the oppressed.he is an outlaw.He seems to have optimistic and positive outlook.

    you acknowledged superhero is not a career or something you do for yourself .So,you just furtherEd my point modern superman is too much of Saint to want anything for himself. He doesn't have a life.He is all about saving people and doing harmless feelgood stuff.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-08-2020 at 10:38 PM.

  15. #60
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    6,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    "Action Comics" is just a title, do you think Wonder Woman shouldn't love fighting because she debuted in Sensational Comics #1?
    Nope!sensation comics can have action.But,it needs to have stuff that are related to the title.That's a requirement .It isn't just a title.it's advertisement .The titles decide what kind of content would be inside.While other type of content can exist in the title as added flavour.Action is should focus.Romance,drama should all be side dishes and not the focus.Clark's relationship with Lois was never the main focus.
    Big whoop!superman punched mongol for umpteenth time.what a great sequence!!!I am sure things like mcu and daredevil would be feeling the competition now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •