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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Nope!sensation comics can have action.But,it needs to have stuff that are related to the title.That's a requirement .It isn't just a title.it's advertisement .The titles decide what kind of content would be inside.While other type of content can exist in the title as added flavour.Action is should focus.Romance,drama should all be side dishes and not the focus.Clark's relationship with Lois was never the main focus.
    Sensational is a term which could mean anything, not specifically action. Which all Superman titles do, except Actin Comics is laser focused on as though it's the sole title in comics Superman ever was the lead in, which we know is false. So where's the acknowledgement of the other core Super-titles? Which has been proven true. The titles are just how titles are marketed, they're not taken literally. "Shadow of the Bat" wasn't about Batman's shadow. Except the complains being levied that these titles haven't focused on action have been thin with evidence. Lois has been a big staple in Superman's life from the first issue, and don't move the goal posts - nobody is suggesting Lois be the main focus on Superman's titles.

    Big whoop!superman punched mongol for umpteenth time.what a great sequence!!!I am sure things like mcu and daredevil would be feeling the competition now.
    This is just a bizarre statement, contradicting the main complaints about Superman not having action. So the problem mustn't be the alleged "lack of action," it must be something else. What is it?

    Care to address the rest of my post?

  2. #62
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Sensational is a term which could mean anything, not specifically action. Which all Superman titles do, except Actin Comics is laser focused on as though it's the sole title in comics Superman ever was the lead in, which we know is false. So where's the acknowledgement of the other core Super-titles? Which has been proven true. The titles are just how titles are marketed, they're not taken literally. "Shadow of the Bat" wasn't about Batman's shadow. Except the complains being levied that these titles haven't focused on action have been thin with evidence. Lois has been a big staple in Superman's life from the first issue, and don't move the goal posts - nobody is suggesting Lois be the main focus on Superman's titles.



    This is just a bizarre statement, contradicting the main complaints about Superman not having action. So the problem mustn't be the alleged "lack of action," it must be something else. What is it?

    Care to address the rest of my post?
    I don't particularly care if superman starred in other comics.(btw!he starred in books with his name on the title and team ups. He didn't star in romance comics or drama comics). Action comics was for action heroes. If superman ain't about action the title can go back to other action heroes. Apply the same logic to detective comics and batman. Sensation comics was primarily romance, mystery..etc title with other things as added flavour.In wonder woman's case it was action and adventure . Who the heck said lois didn't appear from action comics#1? I didn't.My main complaint is about books being about drama, romance.. etc. Action comics should produce what it's advertised.lois was kickass in the old comics. Clark wasn't "bohoo"-ing because of some mundane nonsense like a gal over for entire chapters. Even if he was, These things were never the focus. It was background and should be treated like that. Just imagine goku pinning over chichi for chapters on being the main content. Yuck!!!!

    Action in that book lasted basically, a page or two at most(bendis book pic you posted) . How is that action focused? While family drama, office drama, romance drama or things like that took more space. Heck! The entirety of the books was reserved for that. Finally , action is more than just "punching stuff". Want good action sequences look for it in stuff like the raid . It's essentially, a dance.or conveying complex emotions through physical activity. Superman punching mongol had absolutely no emotional or narrative backing. worse, it wasn't even a creative fight sequence nor did it produce tension and was dynamic visually . Presentation matter. Superman can fly by doing same old boring flight pose. Or he can leap, dive, flip and do loops.... Etc essentially more dynamic movements that can be eye catching and attractive.

    This is what i am talking about. This is an action sequence.There is emotion, tension.. Etc. The fight has good hand to hand.Both aquaman and wonder woman were awesome in that department.


    And no i am not saying superman should have wonder woman's fighting style.Essentially, something like allmight.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-09-2020 at 12:25 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    While I acknowledge that luffy and superman have two different points of interest for their actions.luffy is driven by self-interest. Superman is not.Their actions would have been the same.why?as luffy has morals and ideals.Yes,goldenage superman will destroy Impel Down and Enies Lobby. Because the justice they serve is facade and tool of oppression. Superman is the guy that took on Hitler and stalin.Moreover,The one piece world was already on fire.People were just oblivious to the corruption and oppression of the system.how rotten it is.luffy just brought that out to the front.Goldenage superman would absolutely burn down the flag at Enies Lobby. He would absolutely punch celestial dragon.so on and so forth .why?because the alternative is oppression and servitude which is far worse.There is a reason superman is shown breaking chains.he is a gladiator.

    Fine let me take your argument as correct.luffy isn't like superman. What about monkey d dragon? I mean,he does do right thing because it's the right thing to do.he is the champion of the oppressed.he is an outlaw.He seems to have optimistic and positive outlook.

    you acknowledged superhero is not a career or something you do for yourself .So,you just furtherEd my point modern superman is too much of Saint to want anything for himself. He doesn't have a life.He is all about saving people and doing harmless feelgood stuff.
    Who said modern Superman is saint? Look I never said that I said he is supposed to be doing good, doesn't mean he can't have a life. Superman supposed to be a very good person in a way like Uncle Roger. He supposed to be kind, but still human. Look from your post it seems that you think that Superman doing good is equal to boring, but I want to tell you that's not the case at all. It all depend on the story. Spider-Man and Superman that help cancer kid will always be better than when both of them fighting, because those feels good. I mean, isn't reading people helping people through kindness fills your heart. It's different thrill from reading fighting series. But it's good, right? I am sure it's because we as human have feeling where we are moved when we see people's kindness and that emotion is what Superheroes embody. Sure, when they fight they are awesome, but when they did good they make you feeling good too, because of that Superman doing good is not boring.

    If you think that modern Superman is all about saving people and doing harmless feel good stuff, then you are wrong. Superman deals with many thing like us. He is not all about saving too. He is now father of superhero, a husband to human, a friend to his coworker and many more. He deals with many thing that actually relatable at us. Of course we don't have power like his, but Superman deals with grieve, he deals with people hating him, he deals with the voice that we will never understand how painful it's to hear it. But, I think that's all about doing harmless thing right? No he didn't because no matter how much pain he got, he will always back up and fly to save people. No matter how judging the people is he will always fly back up always shielding them with his S. He will always standing up, no matter how up because he is Superman.

    Beside, Superhero doing good is only happening in Golden Age and early Silver Age don't you think? I mean Superman punching people doing good stuff only happens in GA and early SA. Nowadays he is more like Superhero of the Universe and Cosmics. It's rare we read Superman doing good stuff anymore that comic like Superman Smashes the Klan feels so outstanding. Sooo, isn't that what you want? Superman fight against crimson cloud powered by another universe. Superman fighting against multiverse thread while dealing with roughness of the world. He is rough, but gentle like you see in Greg Pak Superman. So, I think shouldn't have any problem too with modern Superman.

    On the other hand let's talk about One Piece. I take you on that, but will clarify that all Superman will destroy Impel Down. It's hellish place a kind like Apocalypse so I think he will destroy it. But, Enies Lobby? No way man, that place is the most neutral place in One Piece. It's just that CP9 happens to be there that place is destroyed. Enies Lobby is never an oppressive place, it's not even a wrong place. It did what it must did as court room of world, so the place and system there it's self is not wrong. The wrong is like you already mentioned in World Government. But that's not Luffy place, it's Monkey D. Dragon role to deal with it. Luffy is a pirate and like what Whitebeard or Roger did, they don't care about world government so much. Dragon is similar to what hero civilian that we sometimes see in revolutionary age comic or manga, but I don't think that he has optimistic and positive outlook FOR NOW. But considering he is Garp's son, unless Garp found him under the bridge I think he is as silly as the two.

  4. #64
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Lets agree to disagree. Also, enies lobby is a front for the world government. It is a place where innoncent people are sentenced. The trial there is just for show. It doesn't serve justice. Its no neutral place. Read the manga again or watch episode 255.
    At that moment Nami remembers reading about Enies Lobby and the Gates of Justice - a set of large steel gates beyond which people only find despair. Enies Lobby is known as the Judicial Island and has a judicial court located on it. However, it functions as such in name only; if you're taken to Enies Lobby, you're already considered guilty. Beyond the Gates of Justice lie two locations, one is the Marine Headquarters and the other is Impel Down - an undersea prison reserved for the criminals who once ran amok in the world. Robin, who has a bounty on her head, would only suffer pain once she crossed those doors.
    Does that sound like a normal neutral court system?
    And dragon is smiling like he hit a jackpot when he saves luffy from smoker and sends him off. He seem to be aloof other time to keep the mysterious vibe.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-09-2020 at 07:29 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Lets agree to disagree. Also, enies lobby is a front for the world government. It is a place where innoncent people are sentenced. The trial there is just for show. It doesn't serve justice. Its no neutral place. Read the manga again or watch episode 255.

    Does that sound like a normal neutral court system?
    And dragon is smiling like he hit a jackpot when he saves luffy from smoker and sends him off. He seem to be aloof other time to keep the mysterious vibe.
    Ok then let's agree to disagree here too. I will tell you this, but in this world there is no just law system. What you need to understand about Enies Lobby is that place hold a special meaning to that world as the law place, without it there will be no just to hold. Pirates for whatever it means is still outlaw, Luffy and every pirate acknowledge it. So Nami word that everyone you bring there is criminal is a bit hypocrite because she is also a pirate, a criminal.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Joking aside, Superman having a monstrous appetite could not only be a really fun running gag but make a semblance of sense. I'd approve yoinking that from Goku.

    I hate the idea I sometimes see implying he doesn't really need human sustenance. Sustenance is sustenance, and if there's any difference for Superman, to me it'd make more sense that he'd need/desire a LOT more fuel. Enough with the yellow sun being everything and the only thing for his body.
    I'm with you, it feels too often like "well I want him to be more alien, so he doesn't need to eat."

    I say go the other way. He absolutely does need to eat, perhaps even a lot, but his unique physiology lets him get away with eating stuff we can't. I'm sure it tastes awful, but if he's on a planet made entirely of metals? Guess he's putting a slab of iron between two copper loaves and eating a sandwich. Have a little fun with it, but turning Clark into a sun god more in line with a plant than man is heading in the wrong direction in my opinion.

  7. #67
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Ok then let's agree to disagree here too. I will tell you this, but in this world there is no just law system. What you need to understand about Enies Lobby is that place hold a special meaning to that world as the law place, without it there will be no just to hold. Pirates for whatever it means is still outlaw, Luffy and every pirate acknowledge it. So Nami word that everyone you bring there is criminal is a bit hypocrite because she is also a pirate, a criminal.
    Hey!@Laufeyson. This is what oda wants to say about luffy.
    I thought it relevant An answer to a question by oda himself
    Luffy dreams of becoming King of the Pirates, but what does that mean?

    On one hand, Luffy believes that the King of the Pirates is “the person with the most freedom in the world.” On the other hand, Luffy always acts on behalf of others. It’s neat how he helps people around him. Making others happy makes him happy. Those he helped then return the favor. I believe that this samurai spirit—a chivalrous heart that beats for others—should be passed down to future generations.
    I firmly believe this is the kind of spirit superman should have.Superman breaks the chains of slavery.An outlaw gladiator who fights for truth and justice . Luffy might not think of himself as a hero or might not want to be one.but,he acts out the role.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'm with you, it feels too often like "well I want him to be more alien, so he doesn't need to eat."

    I say go the other way. He absolutely does need to eat, perhaps even a lot, but his unique physiology lets him get away with eating stuff we can't. I'm sure it tastes awful, but if he's on a planet made entirely of metals? Guess he's putting a slab of iron between two copper loaves and eating a sandwich. Have a little fun with it, but turning Clark into a sun god more in line with a plant than man is heading in the wrong direction in my opinion.
    That was also a running gag .wasn't it?I don't like sun God thing if it reduces struggle and effort of the protagonist. Sun can be used in a different fashion if at all.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-13-2020 at 11:28 PM.

  8. #68
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    Luffy dreams of becoming King of the Pirates, but what does that mean?

    On one hand, Luffy believes that the King of the Pirates is “the person with the most freedom in the world.” On the other hand, Luffy always acts on behalf of others. It’s neat how he helps people around him. Making others happy makes him happy. Those he helped then return the favor. I believe that this samurai spirit—a chivalrous heart that beats for others—should be passed down to future generations.

    Hmmm, I think you are missing Oda point here. The thing is Luffy help people because he like it, even if the consequence is worse than anything. To put it simple Luffy doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't give a fuck and to be honest it's just good for people there he gives a fuck in the right term because if not, then... you can see from Impel Down and Doflamingo fall down. I think you are missing this, but, Luffy without doubt is the villain of Impel Down, and that arc truly highlights how for all he did, he is villain. He let out prisoners, destroying what supposed to be prison, killing people like guard of Impel Down who did nothing by boiling them into the Level 4.

    Normally hero even if it's GA will take a second time to think everything that Luffy did, but Luffy? Nah, he didn't give a shit.

    Because, like what Oda said there, what Luffy wants is the most important thing as far as he is concerned. The other? Fuck everything else.

    So, Oda sure tell us that he is a hero, but the another way to interpret what he said is that Luffy is person who doesn't give a fuck and just in the right mind of it. That's dangerous, the way to read it in another way is through Baki Dou - The Musashi arc. Musashi there is just like Luffy. He is a good person, a pleasant and honest guy that speak of his mind. But through the stories he is paint out as villain because his way of thinking has a dissonance with how modern world is thinking.

    Now, sure you can say that Luffy is a hero because he fight for those can't, but there is a line here that it's as along as he care. He save Nami, Robin, Ace, Vivi because he cares about and allow them to be happy more often than not.

    Now, how about Superman. How about we imagine if Superman had Luffy moral there? Doesn't that make him the most dangerous being alive. He is strong enough to destroy stars and he just do whatever he wanted, doing justice what he thought as right and just being immoral as fuck. Judging people not by standards, but by himself doesn't that frightening? I think the answer is yes.

    Though I can give you this that we can see Luffy as heroic and morally right if we look into the frame of Shonen's target audience. But, the thing is, I am an adult, the way I see the world and the target audience for Shonen is different. So for me the answer from that SBS is that we supposed to learn that we must help the others in need like the roamnticism version of Samurai, not that Luffy is a hero.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Luffy dreams of becoming King of the Pirates, but what does that mean?

    On one hand, Luffy believes that the King of the Pirates is “the person with the most freedom in the world.” On the other hand, Luffy always acts on behalf of others. It’s neat how he helps people around him. Making others happy makes him happy. Those he helped then return the favor. I believe that this samurai spirit—a chivalrous heart that beats for others—should be passed down to future generations.

    Hmmm, I think you are missing Oda point here. The thing is Luffy help people because he like it, even if the consequence is worse than anything. To put it simple Luffy doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't give a fuck and to be honest it's just good for people there he gives a fuck in the right term because if not, then... you can see from Impel Down and Doflamingo fall down. I think you are missing this, but, Luffy without doubt is the villain of Impel Down, and that arc truly highlights how for all he did, he is villain. He let out prisoners, destroying what supposed to be prison, killing people like guard of Impel Down who did nothing by boiling them into the Level 4.

    Normally hero even if it's GA will take a second time to think everything that Luffy did, but Luffy? Nah, he didn't give a shit.

    Because, like what Oda said there, what Luffy wants is the most important thing as far as he is concerned. The other? Fuck everything else.

    So, Oda sure tell us that he is a hero, but the another way to interpret what he said is that Luffy is person who doesn't give a fuck and just in the right mind of it. That's dangerous, the way to read it in another way is through Baki Dou - The Musashi arc. Musashi there is just like Luffy. He is a good person, a pleasant and honest guy that speak of his mind. But through the stories he is paint out as villain because his way of thinking has a dissonance with how modern world is thinking.

    Now, sure you can say that Luffy is a hero because he fight for those can't, but there is a line here that it's as along as he care. He save Nami, Robin, Ace, Vivi because he cares about and allow them to be happy more often than not.

    Now, how about Superman. How about we imagine if Superman had Luffy moral there? Doesn't that make him the most dangerous being alive. He is strong enough to destroy stars and he just do whatever he wanted, doing justice what he thought as right and just being immoral as fuck. Judging people not by standards, but by himself doesn't that frightening? I think the answer is yes.

    Though I can give you this that we can see Luffy as heroic and morally right if we look into the frame of Shonen's target audience. But, the thing is, I am an adult, the way I see the world and the target audience for Shonen is different. So for me the answer from that SBS is that we supposed to learn that we must help the others in need like the roamnticism version of Samurai, not that Luffy is a hero.
    What people forget is the Luffy and the Straw Hats are pirates, and pirates by their very profession aren't good people. They may be nice pirates but One Piece makes no excuse that most pirates are bad because they're pirates. They steal, they murder, they enslave people. That's what the average pirate is because Oda is basing his pirates on the pirates of our world. Oda gets around this by making the Straw Hats, many of which started off not being pirates/pirate hunters, fighting worse pirates and making anyone vaguely with governmental authority cartoonishly evil. With exceptions. It's a brutal, exaggerated world. Luffy works there because his selfishness is rewarded and expected of a pirate. He's also incredibly stupid. Luffy's not a super-hero, Superman is.

  10. #70
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    ummm!!!what is a superhero?They are criminals,vigilantes..etc.A superhero is a powereed vigilante.VIgilantes are not meant to be good people.
    Yet,you are reading a narrative about good criminals and bad criminals.Yeah!superman is a criminal.He is a hero.but,he is a criminal even postcrisis superman.

    @Laufeyson superman would'nt help people it didn't give him any sense moral or ethical satisfaction.superman would'nt do something if it did not feel right to him.how is that any different from luffy?.I firmly believe you are grasping at straws.No,goldenage superman would think twice or give a fuck.why?as long as he is doing the right thing and he is not doing shameful,dishonourable act..etc.why should he?should he second guess punching a dictator?Goldenage superman would absolutely sock hitler in the jaw and kick stalin across the room if he sees oppression caused by him. As said,there is pirate like that in one piece.who is bad.who destroys everthing in his path.he is black beard.luffy only takes apart the illegitmate,the corrupt and the two faced unfair system.He also becomes the reason people replace it as well.luffy is an agent of change which superman was meant to be,a catalyst. Luffy is the reason alabasta's kingdom was restored.he is also reason democracy came to drum island.If luffy was bad ,these places would be in ruins.Blackbeard is luffy without morality.moreover,luffy does feel things like remorse when there is something to be remorseful about.for example,luffy feeling bad about tama ,not being able to save ace,not being able to bring rain in alabasta(which he did)..etc.as if goldenage superman would be crying about punching celestial dragon or destroying the enies lobby(which marines themselves did btw).Maybe the preflashpoint navel gazer superman would.Luffy was meant to be a hero. the good guy.All notion that author wanted him to be anything else is false.
    The relectuance is simply that superman would be actually doing good of any kind(left or right) not just harmless good.You might disagree with him. all the power to you.but, superman acts. he is the man of action.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-14-2020 at 03:29 AM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I don't particularly care if superman starred in other comics.(btw!he starred in books with his name on the title and team ups. He didn't star in romance comics or drama comics). Action comics was for action heroes. If superman ain't about action the title can go back to other action heroes. Apply the same logic to detective comics and batman. Sensation comics was primarily romance, mystery..etc title with other things as added flavour.In wonder woman's case it was action and adventure . Who the heck said lois didn't appear from action comics#1? I didn't.My main complaint is about books being about drama, romance.. etc. Action comics should produce what it's advertised.lois was kickass in the old comics. Clark wasn't "bohoo"-ing because of some mundane nonsense like a gal over for entire chapters. Even if he was, These things were never the focus. It was background and should be treated like that. Just imagine goku pinning over chichi for chapters on being the main content. Yuck!!!!

    Action in that book lasted basically, a page or two at most(bendis book pic you posted) . How is that action focused? While family drama, office drama, romance drama or things like that took more space. Heck! The entirety of the books was reserved for that. Finally , action is more than just "punching stuff". Want good action sequences look for it in stuff like the raid . It's essentially, a dance.or conveying complex emotions through physical activity. Superman punching mongol had absolutely no emotional or narrative backing. worse, it wasn't even a creative fight sequence nor did it produce tension and was dynamic visually . Presentation matter. Superman can fly by doing same old boring flight pose. Or he can leap, dive, flip and do loops.... Etc essentially more dynamic movements that can be eye catching and attractive.

    This is what i am talking about. This is an action sequence.There is emotion, tension.. Etc. The fight has good hand to hand.Both aquaman and wonder woman were awesome in that department.


    And no i am not saying superman should have wonder woman's fighting style.Essentially, something like allmight.
    You should care since this is a character who has been numerous ongoings, mini-series, one shots and more then most super-heroes at DC, instead it comes off like anything he did outside that title didn't happen. Don't move the goal posts, nobody is suggesting he needs to be any of those genres. And so is any comic title he appears in, especially comic series he's the star of. Batman does the same thing. Wonder Woman left Sensational before we were born. Just because they began there shouldn't mean their entire super-hero carers need them to stay put in a single title, this isn't manga. Lois was bought up to show just because she was in his comics didn't make her the star of the comics. Why are you only concentrating on Action Comics, again ignoring how Superman has a line of books about himself. Super-hero comics have other genres in them, that's not because they become overrides by that genre, because their stories require more than Superman punching someone, super-heroes need to be relatable and have more to stories - this gives Superman freedom to push genre boundaries, so he can have adventures in space, solve mysteries, react to cultural events and general pop culture. Like every other super-hero. Clark's love of Lois has been defining the character for generations, do you want Superman to not have romantic relationships with anyone? What stories was this the main focus? Goku did fall for Chichi, that's why he had kids with her, she won over a character who didn't know what sex was and still is deeply in love with her. He may not lust after her in every panel but the stories do make him to be very happy with his bride as his loving companion, wife and mother of his children. Goku is also incredibly less developed as a person than Superman is, his focus is on fighting and training Superman actually has a life outside fighting crime. Goku also isn't in the super-hero genre.

    Action in comics waxes and wanes, except how this is being responded to it's like Superman has never, ever had anything remotely exciting in comics or any media. This is hyperbole. Just read other Superman comics where writers and artists will do good action, or wait until Bendis leaves and Bendis isn't even writing all the Superman books. Superman's being John Carter-lite in the Future State titles, why is that being ignored?

    I know what good action is, that's just short hand for fight scenes like you described. And none of those are from the comics, how about examples of super-heroes (no manga) that do this?
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 11-14-2020 at 05:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    ummm!!!what is a superhero?They are criminals,vigilantes..etc.A superhero is a powereed vigilante.VIgilantes are not meant to be good people.
    Yet,you are reading a narrative about good criminals and bad criminals.Yeah!superman is a criminal.He is a hero.but,he is a criminal even postcrisis superman.

    @Laufeyson superman would'nt help people it didn't give him any sense moral or ethical satisfaction.superman would'nt do something if it did not feel right to him.how is that any different from luffy?.I firmly believe you are grasping at straws.No,goldenage superman would think twice or give a fuck.why?as long as he is doing the right thing and he is not doing shameful,dishonourable act..etc.why should he?should he second guess punching a dictator?Goldenage superman would absolutely sock hitler in the jaw and kick stalin across the room if he sees oppression caused by him. As said,there is pirate like that in one piece.who is bad.who destroys everthing in his path.he is black beard.luffy only takes apart the illegitmate,the corrupt and the two faced unfair system.He also becomes the reason people replace it as well.luffy is an agent of change which superman was meant to be,a catalyst. Luffy is the reason alabasta's kingdom was restored.he is also reason democracy came to drum island.If luffy was bad ,these places would be in ruins.Blackbeard is luffy without morality.moreover,luffy does feel things like remorse when there is something to be remorseful about.for example,luffy feeling bad about tama ,not being able to save ace,not being able to bring rain in alabasta(which he did)..etc.as if goldenage superman would be crying about punching celestial dragon or destroying the enies lobby(which marines themselves did btw).Maybe the preflashpoint navel gazer superman would.Luffy was meant to be a hero. the good guy.All notion that author wanted him to be anything else is false.
    The relectuance is simply that superman would be actually doing good of any kind(left or right) not just harmless good.You might disagree with him. all the power to you.but, superman acts. he is the man of action.
    Dude, you are missing point here, it's not about vigilante or superhero or villain. It's about moral and consciousness. The thing is any vigilante and superhero or hero in general have a line where they aren't supposed to pass and that what differentiate Luffy from Superman. Luffy will do anything what he likes without caring anything in his wake, but Superman will. Why? Because like what Steel Inquisitor said that Luffy is dumb. He is dumb that he doesn't want to think or care about the consequences of what he did. Sure, if you read GA comics there will be comic like that. A comic where superhero like Captain America and Superman suddenly come and punch Stalin or Hitler. But, those comics can't work like that anymore. They are villain, because even if what they did right, they are invading people and destroying fundamental of country, their leader. But they did, because at it's core GA comic is propaganda comic.

    Now let's return to our main question, is that GA Superman same with Luffy? The answer is still no, because Luffy did it for his own amusement. GA Heroes propaganda comic did it for the good of all, they wanted to be fixer of the problem. Luffy? He is not the fixer, he is just there to make chaos. He is not meant to be agent of change or something like that. He is there because he is just doing what seemed to be good act because he wanted to do. So what Luffy did is without moral as guidance and the same can be said with BlackBeard. They are same and it's just that BlackBeard is doing it for whatever he like in bad term while Luffy is doing it for whatever he like in what we saw as good. So it returns again into story that being told. But as long as the morality goes, they are same and can't preach actually one of them is more evil than the other.

    And... Luffy having feeling doesn't mean he has moral. A point of advice, how about you reread your profile picture once again to understand the morality of Superman. I think it would be better than hearing me talking about morality of Luffy, though not that I don't like it, because as far as I know, you are the first person that told me that Luffy is hero. The closest to that would be Luffy is an anti-hero at most, so because of that he doesn't have any stock shonen rival.

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    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Dude, you are missing point here, it's not about vigilante or superhero or villain. It's about moral and consciousness. The thing is any vigilante and superhero or hero in general have a line where they aren't supposed to pass and that what differentiate Luffy from Superman. Luffy will do anything what he likes without caring anything in his wake, but Superman will.
    this is where you are flat out wrong.Luffy would do what he want.True.Provided ,it fits his morality.So,the line you talk about exist for luffy.if it did'nt, he would be killing people left and right.I didn't see any amuesment luffy's entire crew got "killed" for punching celestial dragon for being a racist who shot a fishman.you think blackbeard and luffy are the same?No,they are not.

    here just watch this, @15:05
    the man behind philosophy also matters.Luffy is a good man who represents freedom with morality.blackbeard is the darkside of that "freedom above all else philosophy",with his hedonistic tendencies.blackbeard is a traditional pirate. Luffy ain't.it's like this batman and joker are both criminals who run from police. batman is the good.joker ain't.on flipside there is a lot of corrupt police people.but,there are good guys like gordon.

    nah!i will pass on that. for the man who has everything is very much my kind of superman.moore built on superman return to krypton nicely.Moreover,another thing you seem to misunderstand.Goldenage superman was not doing the right thing for all.he did it to satisfy his morality and conscience.Which what you said luffy is doing
    "is just doing what seemed to be good act because he wanted to do"
    in order to do good,you need to actually want to do good.Only totalitarians and authoritarians think they are doing good for all.Only they think they know better and know what that good is for everyone's sake.Goldenage superman was neither.luffy is'nt either. i can't decide what's good for you and vice versa. superman couldn't and wouldn't.he was'nt arrogant enough to think he could decide what is right for everyone. he only states his opinions in words and actions. he only did what his morality dictated and as a human naturally wanted things.nothing more or less.People have all the right to disagree with superman or his way of doing things. And they used to.Luffy does the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    this is where you are flat out wrong.Luffy would do what he want.True.Provided ,it fits his morality.So,the line you talk about exist for luffy.if it did'nt, he would be killing people left and right.I didn't see any amuesment luffy's entire crew got "killed" for punching celestial dragon for being a racist who shot a fishman.you think blackbeard and luffy are the same?No,they are not.

    here just watch this, @15:05
    the man behind philosophy also matters.Luffy is a good man who represents freedom with morality.blackbeard is the darkside of that "freedom above all else philosophy",with his hedonistic tendencies.blackbeard is a traditional pirate. Luffy ain't.it's like this batman and joker are both criminals who run from police. batman is the good.joker ain't.on flipside there is a lot of corrupt police people.but,there are good guys like gordon.

    nah!i will pass on that. for the man who has everything is very much my kind of superman.moore built on superman return to krypton nicely.Moreover,another thing you seem to misunderstand.Goldenage superman was not doing the right thing for all.he did it to satisfy his morality and conscience.Which what you said luffy is doing
    "is just doing what seemed to be good act because he wanted to do"
    in order to do good,you need to actually want to do good.Only totalitarians and authoritarians think they are doing good for all.Only they think they know better and know what that good is for everyone's sake.Goldenage superman was neither.luffy is'nt either. i can't decide what's good for you and vice versa. superman couldn't and wouldn't.he was'nt arrogant enough to think he could decide what is right for everyone. he only states his opinions in words and actions. he only did what his morality dictated and as a human naturally wanted things.nothing more or less.People have all the right to disagree with superman or his way of doing things. And they used to.Luffy does the same.
    Ok, I think you are ignoring several parts of my arguments about Blackbeard and Luffy. I said that Blackbeard is the same as Luffy with the difference in their consciousness which dictated Blackbeard to do what he did while Luffy to do what he did. Their moral is exactly same though and it's the moral of villain. Is it bad? Yes if you look it from our world, but it's not from One Piece world. You see I already told you several times that being villain in OPverse is not that bad, it means that the story works. I and Steel Inquisitor already told you that the OP world is the world of Pirate.

    The theme of One Piece is about pirates and accomplishing your dreams. The theme of piracy is inherently selfish, whether you just want to have fun with your own friends or ransack an entire country and steal their riches/ power.

    Pirates are not tied down to moral obligations, and live outside the merits of man/social status.

    Usually, the main protagonist has a moral compass that gets challenged or becomes their main source of inspiration/guidance. If someone chooses to argue with the protagonist that making money is all that matters, the protagonist will slam his foot down and correct him.

    They take the world very seriously, and their moral compass usually pushes them to extreme measures to counter "evil" or "injustice".

    It can range in scale from being about sharing a candy bar to big lengths like protecting the universe.

    But Luffy doesn't have that and that's because of his nature. You may say "He saves a bunch of people" but it's moreso he's fighting against adversity and he's doing what he wants, without feeling like it's justified or "correct".

    So I will say it again and again that Luffy is not a hero. No he is far from it and that's because how the world of One Piece work and if you put him into DC world where the moral can be gray than he will be known as a hero in term of the Authority by Warren Ellis or Manchester Black. So I don't say that you are wrong by saying Luffy is a hero, but I think calling him a hero need a drawn line because the only thing he won't do is killing (Oda said that shattering dream is more devastating in OPverse), but aside from that everything goes.

    Now, about the Man Who Has Everything is that I mean the Superman and Mongul fight, in that fight we see Superman is stopping himself when he look at his parent's statue and that's what I mean. Luffy will still pummeling Mongul until he passed out, but Superman will stop himself when he thinks that is enough. That's the difference between the two and please don't kid yourself, GA Superman clearly made to become a hero of people, he never originally made to be the hero because of himself. He did it because he wanted to fight for Justice in American Ways that means the right thing to do for that times (WWII). He is not that selfish to say that he did to satisfy his morality and conscience. Why I think that, because all propaganda hero is like that.

    Captain America fight for the American Dream, because he believes that is the right thing to do. Captain Marvel fight because that is the right to do under the guidance of his Wisdom of Solomon. I mean what is wrong with that. Isn't that cool? A person fighting for the right thing to do. Sure there is another case of Totalitarians and Authoritarians from them, but even then that is the hypocrisy of Superman. He is outsider who think he know better for us, isn't that not the plot point of Lex Luthor hatred for Superman in modern age? So it comes down to where your PoV about that come again, you can see that Superman that do the right thing to do for the right thing of all as Totalitarians and Authoritarians then I believe you will have a nice tea talk with Lex Luthor, because I believe you two share a good idea there.

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    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Ok, I think you are ignoring several parts of my arguments about Blackbeard and Luffy. I said that Blackbeard is the same as Luffy with the difference in their consciousness which dictated Blackbeard to do what he did while Luffy to do what he did. Their moral is exactly same though and it's the moral of villain. Is it bad? Yes if you look it from our world, but it's not from One Piece world. You see I already told you several times that being villain in OPverse is not that bad, it means that the story works. I and Steel Inquisitor already told you that the OP world is the world of Pirate.
    how is it a moral of villain?No,being a pirate in opverse and real world is bad.It's just luffy is good and does what's right.Moreover,being a superhero in our world would be bad as well.Why?cause superheroes advocate vigilante justice and they are essentially criminals.Being batman or superman in real life would mean you would be behind bars ,in a jail.And from that i am going to come to where you both are wrong.this is fundamentally what you don't seem to get.Superman's world isn't real world.Superman as created by siegel and shuster is allegorical character and his world is metropolis,not new york.
    to quote Alan moore,
    "This is an imaginary story.Aren't they all?"
    Oda seems to be in agreement
    "This is a dream like story.A laughtale"
    it is because it is a fictional story that you root for either batman or superman.DCU is a world of good criminal/vigilantes whom you call superheroes.

    Forgive me,for being concise.I am a bit tied up.I don't mean to be rude.I did read the whole reply.But,this is the only thing i can reply on.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-14-2020 at 10:08 AM.

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