Superman and Anime

[Prime]

As far as multiverse goes, I can see Goku as his shonen representative multiverse.

You think Clark would be popular in Jaoan if DC gives them free reign?

[Laufeyson]

You think Clark would be popular in Jaoan if DC gives them free reign?

It's hard to tell, but I think Clark had a decent chance to be big in Japan. But, the problem is nowaday anime/manga market is about pandering to the reader fantasy which is wish fullfilment, a type of hero like Clark will have a hard footing there.

[PCN24454]

It's hard to tell, but I think Clark had a decent chance to be big in Japan. But, the problem is nowaday anime/manga market is about pandering to the reader fantasy which is wish fullfilment, a type of hero like Clark will have a hard footing there.

Why would that be hard for Superman then?

[Laufeyson]

Why would that be hard for Superman then?

It's hard because Japanese wish fullfilments are something like this:
-The MCs are loser Japanese that suddenly become super overpowered beyond any measure out of cheat
-He is so strong he has no real conflict and easy life
-The MC need to be a loser in high school, a bland loser in high school, or a loser corporate slave

Now Superman is strong and sometimes his story can have or can't have a good real conflict against his villain depending on the writers. But, Clark as character is not a loser. He is succesfull reporter with a good wife and good child. Stable income, a great relationship, and good human all in all. Japanese otakus hate that type of character to the bone. To them, he is something that they will never be. A character like Clark is called as Riaju (Normies) and generally used as villain or someone ignorant in anime stories. Not to mention, Clark himself is Alien from another planet. As long as Clark's rocket doesn't suddenly crashed into Akita Perfecture and raised by rice farmer or something like that, the otakus won't touch the series let alone watch it, because it's not from Japan.

Now, I say all of that, but there is a tiny chance Superman can get a popularity that he deserved and that is by making an anime movie (OVA/ONA) about his most human story. While most of otaku is like that, there is a minority that love the story about human in a way of KyoAni (Kyoto Animation) and Makoto Shinkai (5 Centimeter per Second and Your Name). But the target of that is no longer otaku instead it's normal people that doesn't care or care with anime, though it can gain a popularity as big as those anime franchises (SAO, ReZero, SnK, Fate). Luckily we have at least two stories that can fit into Japanese humane way: American Alien and Secret Identity.

So to put it simple, it's hard because Superman is product of American and story about alien super power that had succesful life, a beatiful wife, and good son. Not to mention it hit the note of politic that most likely will make it less interesting for most of people as long as it doesn't really stroke Japanese ego. So it's hard, but I think I can see an anime about Superman from Japan as along as DC Creative team knew anime through and through and had somewhat a reign into it.

[Robanker]

Why would that be hard for Superman then?

For one, he's over 25. Japan very much hates the idea of older heroes. They like gruff mentor figures, but only through the lens of a young protagonist. A notorious example was actually from 2006ish when Final Fantasy XII was being developed and enough people complained that the protagonist was so old they refused to buy the game. Basch, the character in question, was 36. Around where Clark would be. It was an early build of the game before the focus shifted to Ashe with Vaan as the PoV character (and arguably she may have still been the protagonist), but it remains a large portion of the fandom revolted because he was geriatric by their estimation.

Furthermore, look up "Christmas Cake Woman" if you think I'm exaggerating. The short of it is that if a woman is older than 25 and unmarried (possibly without child), she's past her prime and spoiled goods. I really hope they've changed in the years since I was more invested in anime/manga, but the picture painted was not one of progress to be polite.

Superheroes have to climb uphill to be popular there compared to over here by virtue of the characters generally skewing older, though some (like Spider-Man) who start around high school tend to be popular.

[Laufeyson]

For one, he's over 25. Japan very much hates the idea of older heroes. They like gruff mentor figures, but only through the lens of a young protagonist. A notorious example was actually from 2006ish when Final Fantasy XII was being developed and enough people complained that the protagonist was so old they refused to buy the game. Basch, the character in question, was 36. Around where Clark would be. It was an early build of the game before the focus shifted to Ashe with Vaan as the PoV character (and arguably she may have still been the protagonist), but it remains a large portion of the fandom revolted because he was geriatric by their estimation.

Furthermore, look up "Christmas Cake Woman" if you think I'm exaggerating. The short of it is that if a woman is older than 25 and unmarried (possibly without child), she's past her prime and spoiled goods. I really hope they've changed in the years since I was more invested in anime/manga, but the picture painted was not one of progress to be polite.

Superheroes have to climb uphill to be popular there compared to over here by virtue of the characters generally skewing older, though some (like Spider-Man) who start around high school tend to be popular.

But on the other hand Robanker, Wonder Woman will sell. Nowadays Christmas Cake is a fad among the otakus, so... There is a reason why her fan art is increase like crazy after her movie despite the movie panned in Japan *WINK* *WINK*.

[manwhohaseverything]

Luffy only helps when he's bought into something or someone he knows is in danger, he's passive to caring about anyone else. Unlike super-heroes.



He's not like what Superman became but that comes off like cheeky prankster than a ruthless hero. When people bring up heroes being extreme it's with violence, Superman's not sawing war profiteers in half with his heat vision. Punisher would be scarier to those people in the Golden Age, since he murders people.



It's a figurative term, not a literal one. That's incredibly cynical view of the world. Berserk is a fantasy, not a documentary. Knights and samurai have been romanticised for centuries, just like pirates. That's what they're supposed to be, but reality is far darker. It also contradicts the cynical view in this paragraph, where something is good or not goes back and forth on what the argument is - they're not consistency here.



Superman died stopping Doomsday, why is Luffy fainting the superior choice? But how did they kill? Don't pretend like Superman's execution of Zod was anything like Doomsday.

He doesn't go around saving people.I have admitted that.But,goldenage superman was similar.It was reaction to injustice,corruption..etc.He didn't plan on becoming vigilante.Being superman is not cool.It's advocating vigilante justice and absolute anarchy.But,the depression era corruption and oppression made him act.It was a moral instinct to protect those weaker than him from the corrupt strong that drove him to being superman.He became an urban myth and then they started calling him superman becuase he wore an s and police badge on his chest.Being superman was not his "gig" ,where he went around saving people.It just became that.Because he wants to,i guess.

cheeky prankster?you don't even know what your talking about.You are basically obsessed with punisher.Punisher isn't the only hero that kills.I said,Luffy doesn't kill.I didn't say he wouldn't.Scared are ya of violence?then ya shouldn't be watching mcu.Ironman,cap..etc were killing people left and right. This idea that superman has to be written by the silverage "thou shall not kill" religious rules forced on by comics code is nonsensical.Superman ain't gandhi nor jesus.He is the champion of the oppressed.Moreover,no superman especially ga superman ever was about finding pleasure through violence.He is'nt a psycopath.Neither does luffy.They just didn't cry or whine about loss of life in a fight for life.If you shoot him ,he is gonna retaliate.He would punch you .They fight cause they have to in that manner.Ofcourse,Goldenage superman and luffy does do fights,getting stronger and sparring in a sportsman like manner.They like the physicality.But,luffy is more an adventurer in general than fighter.Goldenage superman is more like goku in that department.He was a strongman.Actively was about pushing his limits.


berserk doesn't need to be a documentry.the miura is good enough with history.knights are notorious for holly wars in the name of the lord.As a pagan who read history,Yeah!that's not cynical world view at all.Just figurative?These things carry over in story when he acts out the role of knight via themes of the story.I have no problem with superman having the spirit of a samurai or knight.
"I fight for those who can't fight for themselves"
But,superman was,is and always should be a gladiator.Not a knight.Gladiators are barbarians as well.But,still they are slaves and largley not organised army like.

no,he didn't.Luffy knew from the start that he was dead meat if he didn't try hard enough.He is taking years of from his life pushing himself and could have very easily died.Superman didn't know he was gonna die from the start.he was perfectly at ease and complacent.He took doomsday lightly.The thing became stronger and stronger after Superman first beat it.He only got that inkling afterwards when he realised the can take his best punch.No,i am not pretending.All I am saying superman has killed.The only superman that would never kill is silverage superman.That is a fact.while luffy doesn't. ever.

@Laufeyson i love superman.I just don't hold him on pedastal.I feel people have genuine grievances with the character and i acknowedge it.

For one, he's over 25.

that depends on the type of story and the audience.Are we talking a battle shonen?then go for,superboy(just don't call him a boy).If it's seinen,then it alright.It's for adults usually.Guts is over 25 as well.As he is portayed in america he would be hard sell.There not enough humour or action.The premise doesn't have an end point as well.Superman largely is a stick in the mud.I imagine jon could sell.

[Laufeyson]

that depends on the type of story and the audience.Are we talking a battle shonen?then go for,superboy(just don't call him a boy).If it's seinen,then it alright.It's for adults usually.Guts is over 25 as well.As he is portayed in america he would be hard sell.There not enough humour or action.The premise doesn't have an end point as well.Superman largely is a stick in the mud.I imagine jon could sell.

Actually right now an adult can be shonen protagonist. Toriko is selling very, very good in Japanese and the main character is adult (Toriko and Komatsu is in their 20s). To me the action is not really problem too, because right now, at least I can say right now, that the market is not flooded by something that is action. In fact, nowadays slice of life genre in general is selling better and more popular than action fighting shonen. In fact, it seems like the market there is a bit moving, but I think the niche is still there with recent resurgences of Baki, Kengan Ashura, and Shuumatsu no Valkyrie. So the lack of action is not the problem here, in fact it can be main event that thanks to Marvel movies that seems like shonen manga come into Hollywood, there is a need for more different Superhero story, and Superman might be able to give it to them.

I don't think Jon is the right one to sell, because shota market is not really good right now, in retrospect I think teen Jon is easier to sell than kid Jon. But, the most easiest Superfamily to sell is Supergirl. I mean think about it, a high-school girl Kara is a gyaru with striking natural blonde hair and noticable clothes. But in secret she is actually a voice actress Yugure Yuhi for radio high-school girls. But, then again there is also a secret and that is she is a Superhero!!! Supergirl, a heroine that fight for Truth and Justice!!! Cue Opening sound. Sell it to Kirara Magazine or Yuri Hime or Champion Red, having a yuri style story with at least as good as Yagate Kimi ni Naru and BOOOM!!! You have a yuri superhero with slice of life and interesting design protagonist that will make otakus out there cry, my waifu.

[Steel Inquisitor]

He doesn't go around saving people.I have admitted that.But,goldenage superman was similar.It was reaction to injustice,corruption..etc.He didn't plan on becoming vigilante.Being superman is not cool.It's advocating vigilante justice and absolute anarchy.But,the depression era corruption and oppression made him act.It was a moral instinct to protect those weaker than him from the corrupt strong that drove him to being superman.He became an urban myth and then they started calling him superman becuase he wore an s and police badge on his chest.Being superman was not his "gig" ,where he went around saving people.It just became that.Because he wants to,i guess.

Except that isn't seen as bad for Luffy, despite the fact this trait encompasses why people think pirates are bad. Because they're selfish and look after number one. But Superman did become a vigilante, he cared about improving society he didn't only stop people because they were trying to kidnap Lois. Except this Superman has been the main focus of what you desire Superman to be, so the swerve that he's not cool doesn't track. But he did become that, his journey didn't end that was just the beginning. Absolute anarchy? What? LOL

cheeky prankster?you don't even know what your talking about.You are basically obsessed with punisher.Punisher isn't the only hero that kills.I said,Luffy doesn't kill.I didn't say he wouldn't.Scared are ya of violence?then ya shouldn't be watching mcu.Ironman,cap..etc were killing people left and right. This idea that superman has to be written by the silverage "thou shall not kill" religious rules forced on by comics code is nonsensical.Superman ain't gandhi nor jesus.He is the champion of the oppressed.Moreover,no superman especially ga superman ever was about finding pleasure through violence.He is'nt a psycopath.Neither does luffy.They just didn't cry or whine about loss of life in a fight for life.If you shoot him ,he is gonna retaliate.He would punch you .They fight cause they have to in that manner.Ofcourse,Goldenage superman and luffy does do fights,getting stronger and sparring in a sportsman like manner.They like the physicality.But,luffy is more an adventurer in general than fighter.Goldenage superman is more like goku in that department.He was a strongman.Actively was about pushing his limits.

Yeah, what Golden Age Superman did was being a cheeky prankster. Punisher's a go-to example of a type of hero who kills, and no, not every hero who kills in the MCU does what he does. Making anyone who brings up an example as being "obsessed" because acknowledgement his context puts doubt through your argument. Not a word how the Punisher would be more feared since he kills people en mass unlike Golden Age Superman. Connoting super-hero violence with the MCU, downplaying exactly why Punisher is not the same as them. Sure many MCU heroes kill, and often, but that's not all they do and you're going to have be more specific than vague MCU hero with evidence because they don't all do things identically. Did you know Iron Man held back on killing people in Age of Ultron? Have you seen Age of Ultron? Nobody is saying Superman can't kill, but that when he does that it merits that response - not throw Lex off a roof the next time he sees him. Please stop connotations every super-hero who kills someone with being good, it muddies up the conversation and distracts from having an actual conversation about specifics. Connoting the champion of the oppressed with figures like Damien Wayne and Black Adam in our arguments for the Superman you want to be puts a stop to the idea that the desired outcome is someone like Captain America or Wonder Woman, who kill as a last resort, which would be reasonable except they aren't bought up as examples for how Superman must be in the arguments you're making. Not everything characters do is about training and sparring, it's not like Golden Age Superman didn't have a life of his own outside of being a super-hero. He's not Goku.

berserk doesn't need to be a documentry.the miura is good enough with history.knights are notorious for holly wars in the name of the lord.As a pagan who read history,Yeah!that's not cynical world view at all.Just figurative?These things carry over in story when he acts out the role of knight via themes of the story.I have no problem with superman having the spirit of a samurai or knight.
"I fight for those who can't fight for themselves"
But,superman was,is and always should be a gladiator.Not a knight.Gladiators are barbarians as well.But,still they are slaves and largley not organised army like.

I suggest recommending works about knights that are serious about the subject matter, rather than bringing up things like Berserk. It may be based on real things but it's still a fantasy manga about a cyborg swordsman. Yes, they are - in what depictions do you see Superman doing that? What history have you read? Berserk is constantly bought up as the primary source of knowledge about knights. The cynical comment wasn't about knights. Except the problems bought up about Superman being a figurine knight haven't been shown, it's true they have themes and influences of knights but that's got nothing to do with what literal knights did in the middle ages. Except for the many comments about how knights are monsters that should be feared and how Superman shouldn't be emulating them, even figuratively. Gladiators fought each other to the death because they were slaves, that's what he is on warworld - a literal slave, not a figuritive one.

no,he didn't.Luffy knew from the start that he was dead meat if he didn't try hard enough.He is taking years of from his life pushing himself and could have very easily died.Superman didn't know he was gonna die from the start.he was perfectly at ease and complacent.He took doomsday lightly.The thing became stronger and stronger after Superman first beat it.He only got that inkling afterwards when he realised the can take his best punch.No,i am not pretending.All I am saying superman has killed.The only superman that would never kill is silverage superman.That is a fact.while luffy doesn't. ever.

Luffy was right simply because he had the knowledge Superman lacked and that makes Superman bad? Until he didn't, which keeps getting ignored. May as well think Yusuke was a weakling who failed for not going all out immediately against Younger Tugoro in the Dark Tournament. It's ridiculous. Then don't imply Superman killing Zod was the same as Doomsday.

@Laufeyson i love superman.I just don't hold him on pedastal.I feel people have genuine grievances with the character and i acknowedge it.

Only specific versions of the character, and only a narrow time period during the Golden Age. It's telling how Siegel and Shuster's Golden Age Superman is supported rather than Earth Two Superman, despite them being the same character.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_(Earth-Two)

And Snyder's Superman. That's debatable.

[Robanker]

But on the other hand Robanker, Wonder Woman will sell. Nowadays Christmas Cake is a fad among the otakus, so... There is a reason why her fan art is increase like crazy after her movie despite the movie panned in Japan *WINK* *WINK*.

I have no doubt that Wonder Woman and most female superheroes appeal to Japan for the same reason they appeal to younger boys, given the 20+ years I've been reading manga. It's really unfortunate, but she's probably more well-known over there for being a waifu than character outright, which is goddamn tragic.

[Laufeyson]

I have no doubt that Wonder Woman and most female superheroes appeal to Japan for the same reason they appeal to younger boys, given the 20+ years I've been reading manga. It's really unfortunate, but she's probably more well-known over there for being a waifu than character outright, which is goddamn tragic.

Yeah, it's hard for Wonder Woman and most of female Superheroes to thrive there. Because of their clothes and their style, they will be most likely waifu at most, which is a shame because there are several great stories out there from them that can inspire the writing of female in Japan.

[Prime]

They can just make Superman younger guys. Make him start out in high school or something

[Laufeyson]

They can just make Superman younger guys. Make him start out in high school or something

Hmm, not a bad idea, I guess Smallville with Grant Morrisson Action Comic and American Alien approach can work too. The idea is that Clark needs to have at least a Japanese element on it. Wolverine and X-Men are beloved there because of his Japanese trait after all and to be fair Wolverine is the archetype for Guts and the other anti-hero Japanese.

But, to be fair nowadays at least Clark needs a cute waifuable girl in his Japan story to work. Luckily for us, we have a line up for that: Supergirl, Lois Lane, Lana Lang, and many more. SSSS Gridman is supposed to be a tanked success, but become a huge success thanks to girls inside that anime.

[Prime]

Well yeah, Japan loves the heroes Journey. Heck I would have Clark move to Japan because Jonathan got a job there or something.

[Laufeyson]

Well yeah, Japan loves the heroes Journey. Heck I would have Clark move to Japan because Jonathan got a job there or something.

Yeah, they love heroes journey, but I believe they love waifu more .

To be fair, I think it would be interesting as an elseworld where Clark landed in Japan rather than Jonathan got a job there or something. Or, or, if we want to take SSSS Gridman as lesson, maybe we can make it that Clark is transported into the Japanese city that is essentially Metropolis meet Tokyo made by Brainiac. In there Superman is deaged back into his teen years, stripped out of his memories. Determined to uncover who is he and why he has such power, he has two mission to fulfill: finding who himself and be a hero to people of that city against various supervillain.

The city in my mind had one distinct characteristics which is everything will have memory reset after Superman saved the day and any casualities will be forgotten immediately.