Carol Danvers is like the Roman Reigns of Marvel at this point.

[Ichijinijisanji]

Black Panther 18 $3.99 Marvel 14,727

jfc how??

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

My question Is, was it really necessary to make 616 Thor and Cap look like incompetent buffoons to promote 616 Carol? It's like when Frank Miller had Crazy Steve (Batman) wreck Hal Jordan and mock him for being a naive moron with a stupid weakness.

[chamber-music]

Comics using characters as props for other characters is nothing new.

If Marvel really want to get more people invested in Captain Marvel then just tell really good compelling stories that will give audiences a reason to care about her. The same goes for every character.

[Triniking1234]

1) It's just a cover
2) Rich Johnston's trolling

I'll wait for the issue to come out. The Age of Ultron story where Natasha lifts Mjolnir was pretty good.

jfc how??

Coates' stories are slow and has a bad release schedule. Just wait for the trades if you care.

[kilderkin]

Honest question, when did we decide comic book sales are better measure of success than a BILLION dollar movie plus merchandising?

Honest answer

When did we decide a film doing well had much relevance to the merits of the published character

If we're going to not pick links to the MCU I would question how well the film would have done if it wasn't placed just before the culmination of the entire MCU to that point

But that's not the point, we aren't talking about the film, which I thought was decent if not spectacular

We also are not looking to films or TV or other media to day how good a comic book character is or being used by the comic book publisher

By such standards Supergirl would be a huge comic book character (with four plus seasons_which I enjoyed immensely, you could apply the same to arrow, whos books don't do that well either, or aquaman where the big film didn't really change the books following) but her comic doesn't hold to that logic you are applying

Guardians have had two big films, but their books keep getting rebooted coz the numbers don't get sustained

Sure success outside of comics might matter for the company, but when we're talking about the comic book character being successful, we are looking at book numbers, not other media

Thats the measure that's relevant

At least for the purposes of looking at the character in the books

In all honesty I think your point is completely irrelevant

Imo

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Honest answer

When did we decide a film doing well had much relevance to the merits of the published character

If we're going to not pick links to the MCU I would question how well the film would have done if it wasn't placed just before the culmination of the entire MCU to that point

But that's not the point, we aren't talking about the film, which I thought was decent if not spectacular

We also are not looking to films or TV or other media to day how good a comic book character is or being used by the comic book publisher

By such standards Supergirl would be a huge comic book character (with four plus seasons_which I enjoyed immensely, you could apply the same to arrow, whos books don't do that well either, or aquaman where the big film didn't really change the books following) but her comic doesn't hold to that logic you are applying

Guardians have had two big films, but their books keep getting rebooted coz the numbers don't get sustained

Sure success outside of comics might matter for the company, but when we're talking about the comic book character being successful, we are looking at book numbers, not other media

Thats the measure that's relevant

At least for the purposes of looking at the character in the books

In all honesty I think your point is completely irrelevant

Imo

I think we can agree that any Marvel hero that isn't Spider-Man or one of the X-Men Is going to have a niche following at best.

I've never watched the Supergirl tv show. Is it good?

[Triniking1234]

I think we can agree that any Marvel hero that isn't Spider-Man or one of the X-Men Is going to have a niche following at best.

I've never watched the Supergirl tv show. Is it good?

Only season 1 was good and even then I'm being nice when I say good.

[kilderkin]

Only season 1 was good and even then I'm being nice when I say good.

To each their own

I absolutely love it

[kilderkin]

I think we can agree that any Marvel hero that isn't Spider-Man or one of the X-Men Is going to have a niche following at best.

I've never watched the Supergirl tv show. Is it good?

Probably

And that's ok

In many ways that's sort of what I find irritating with the whole thing

Marvel imo, keep trying to make more out of it than really there is to be had

They are not going to make her into their superman, it's not going to happen, at least within the context of comic books (maybe in other media) but they seem to keep trying to tell us this is actually true

It isn't, in print media at least

She's successful enough, be happy for that, no other character in years has had the continual push and relaunches she's had, that alone is something to be proud of if your a current fan

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Probably

And that's ok

In many ways that's sort of what I find irritating with the whole thing

Marvel imo, keep trying to make more out of it than really there is to be had

They are not going to make her into their superman, it's not going to happen, at least within the context of comic books (maybe in other media) but they seem to keep trying to tell us this is actually true

It isn't, in print media at least

She's successful enough, be happy for that, no other character in years has had the continual push and relaunches she's had, that alone is something to be proud of if your a current fan

I admit i'm a biased Cosmic fan and think Wolverine is a bit overrated character and doesn't deserve the massive exposure he got.

As for Carol i don't hate her character, heck she was a long time supporting character of Mar-Vell one of my favorite Marvel heroes. I just dislike how they turned her into a walking editorial mandate for the sake of sinergy.

[Killerbee911]

Honest answer

When did we decide a film doing well had much relevance to the merits of the published character

If we're going to not pick links to the MCU I would question how well the film would have done if it wasn't placed just before the culmination of the entire MCU to that point

But that's not the point, we aren't talking about the film, which I thought was decent if not spectacular

We also are not looking to films or TV or other media to day how good a comic book character is or being used by the comic book publisher

By such standards Supergirl would be a huge comic book character (with four plus seasons_which I enjoyed immensely, you could apply the same to arrow, whos books don't do that well either, or aquaman where the big film didn't really change the books following) but her comic doesn't hold to that logic you are applying

Guardians have had two big films, but their books keep getting rebooted coz the numbers don't get sustained

Sure success outside of comics might matter for the company, but when we're talking about the comic book character being successful, we are looking at book numbers, not other media

Thats the measure that's relevant

At least for the purposes of looking at the character in the books

In all honesty I think your point is completely irrelevant

Imo

No people aren't looking at the book numbers, Captain marvel has been restarted ONCE with numbers in real cancellation range and two things people consider restarts are miniseries Life of Captain Marvel and Captain Marvel and carol corps. This all to sell Captain Marvel is this horrible book that isn't working. When the reality is Captain Marvel is mid tier book that numbers will fall in cancellation range like 90% of market if the wrong creative team is on it. They are handful character that hold a book above 30k

Spiderman
Superman
Batman
Venom
Wolverine
Flash
Wonder Woman(barely)
**Yes I know I missed couple of them like Harley Quinn,Deadpool,etc

and the team books Justice League,Avengers, and X-men. Anything plays around 30k to 20k range and is one mediocre creative run from being struggling to cancellation range (see black Panther). I have no problems with people picking on Captain Marvel as long they are acknowledging stuff like Dr Strange, Punisher, Hawkman, Green Arrow, Ghost Rider Iron Fist, Moon Knight, Black Panther etc are in the same state. And stuff like Aquaman and Iron Man ain't that far off. If fans were keeping it real we would talking about how in this era it is really important to find correct creative team and style for the book which is different between Hulk being at the near top and Hulk numbers in the mediocre zone. Instead fans try to bash certain characters because they don't like them. Nobody gives dam that Dr Strange is restarting with a new number 1. Nobody is going to try use that sign that character doesn't work. People aren't really looking at the numbers but since we want to look at the numbers. Here is the current numbers


2 1 Captain Marvel 1 $4.99 01/09/19 Marvel 111,391
39 42 Captain Marvel 2 $3.99 02/13/19 Marvel 37,380
58 60 Captain Marvel 3 $3.99 03/20/19 Marvel 30,282
67 69 Captain Marvel 4 $3.99 04/10/19 Marvel 27,423
79 87 Captain Marvel 5 $3.99 05/08/19 Marvel 26,086
59 61 Captain Marvel 6 $3.99 06/05/19 Marvel 31,297
70 73 Captain Marvel 7 $3.99 06/19/19 Marvel 26,141
66 70 Captain Marvel 8 $3.99 07/17/19 Marvel 32,939
47 46 Captain Marvel 9 $3.99 08/14/19 Marvel 37,888
73 75 Captain Marvel 10 $3.99 09/11/19 Marvel 27,498
64 64 Captain Marvel 11 $3.99 10/16/19 Marvel 35,634
13 12 Captain Marvel 12 $3.99 11/20/19 Marvel 62,227

And in looking up numbers to do this I can say Captain Marvel is doing well in reprints and trade. Which one do people want to do? Talk about the steady growth Captain Marvel and every time it has been "restarted" it has retained numbers(yeah that right there is method to the madness) or do people want to talk about this run of success being a fluke and we should wait to see the numbers drop. Anyways people see the 62,227 that is people being interested in Thor and Captain Marvel fighting so apparently Marvel knows what is doing.

[Noodle]

It's like when Frank Miller had Crazy Steve (Batman) wreck Hal Jordan and mock him for being a naive moron with a stupid weakness.

Except that was an alternate universe and the actual Hal suffered no loss from it. And it was consistent with Miller Batman.

But, hey. Who needs context when you can just get worked up and upset over everything?

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Except that was an alternate universe and the actual Hal suffered no loss from it. And it was consistent with Miller Batman.

But, hey. Who needs context when you can just get worked up and upset over everything?

ASSBAR Is still an awful comic though. I always enjoyed watching Linkara tearing that miniseries apart in his videos.

[kilderkin]

No people aren't looking at the book numbers, Captain marvel has been restarted ONCE with numbers in real cancellation range and two things people consider restarts are miniseries Life of Captain Marvel and Captain Marvel and carol corps. This all to sell Captain Marvel is this horrible book that isn't working. When the reality is Captain Marvel is mid tier book that numbers will fall in cancellation range like 90% of market if the wrong creative team is on it. They are handful character that hold a book above 30k

Spiderman
Superman
Batman
Venom
Wolverine
Flash
Wonder Woman(barely)
**Yes I know I missed couple of them like Harley Quinn,Deadpool,etc

and the team books Justice League,Avengers, and X-men. Anything plays around 30k to 20k range and is one mediocre creative run from being struggling to cancellation range (see black Panther). I have no problems with people picking on Captain Marvel as long they are acknowledging stuff like Dr Strange, Punisher, Hawkman, Green Arrow, Ghost Rider Iron Fist, Moon Knight, Black Panther etc are in the same state. And stuff like Aquaman and Iron Man ain't that far off. If fans were keeping it real we would talking about how in this era it is really important to find correct creative team and style for the book which is different between Hulk being at the near top and Hulk numbers in the mediocre zone. Instead fans try to bash certain characters because they don't like them. Nobody gives dam that Dr Strange is restarting with a new number 1. Nobody is going to try use that sign that character doesn't work. People aren't really looking at the numbers but since we want to look at the numbers. Here is the current numbers


2 1 Captain Marvel 1 $4.99 01/09/19 Marvel 111,391
39 42 Captain Marvel 2 $3.99 02/13/19 Marvel 37,380
58 60 Captain Marvel 3 $3.99 03/20/19 Marvel 30,282
67 69 Captain Marvel 4 $3.99 04/10/19 Marvel 27,423
79 87 Captain Marvel 5 $3.99 05/08/19 Marvel 26,086
59 61 Captain Marvel 6 $3.99 06/05/19 Marvel 31,297
70 73 Captain Marvel 7 $3.99 06/19/19 Marvel 26,141
66 70 Captain Marvel 8 $3.99 07/17/19 Marvel 32,939
47 46 Captain Marvel 9 $3.99 08/14/19 Marvel 37,888
73 75 Captain Marvel 10 $3.99 09/11/19 Marvel 27,498
64 64 Captain Marvel 11 $3.99 10/16/19 Marvel 35,634
13 12 Captain Marvel 12 $3.99 11/20/19 Marvel 62,227

And in looking up numbers to do this I can say Captain Marvel is doing well in reprints and trade. Which one do people want to do? Talk about the steady growth Captain Marvel and every time it has been "restarted" it has retained numbers(yeah that right there is method to the madness) or do people want to talk about this run of success being a fluke and we should wait to see the numbers drop. Anyways people see the 62,227 that is people being interested in Thor and Captain Marvel fighting so apparently Marvel knows what is doing.

Every relaunch by every publisher ever, has come down to numbers, ever

And everyone involved in publishing a book cares about them, in one way or another

And ultimately fans are invested in that too

Your numbers actually help prove my point about the continual pushes from marvel being irrelevant, she doesn't need them, and ultimately doesn't pop from them either, as I said, she's doing fine, they just want her to be more than she is

Really, for you to suggest numbers aren't important is rather ridiculous, at no point did I say she was doing badly, just the opposite, it's marvel that wants it to be something more

Nice to see Thor help with those numbers too

And just to reiterate at no point did I suggest the book was bad or not selling, I said it needed to do well for an extended run, ie several years with a run past mid double figures, with good numbers

This run does indeed look to be doing do, good for those enjoying it

So if this does help her become the icon to to sl superman they want, I'll have been proven right won't i

[Killerbee911]

The actual numbers show that a large majority of characters today need to be restarted ever so often and format of industry with the big two is not best interest of the majority characters but that is another topic. It has been shown 1-12 issues /1-12 issues does better than 1 to 24 issues. The market is not the same anymore you can literally restart a book with same creative team and it will do better than if you had let continue on with same creative team.

Captain Marvel is actual test case of you can see a book growing with "restarts" almost every time it restarted started with a higher amount initial customers,Keep higher amount after the initial number 1 drop and numbers degrade slower to cancelation level slower. Captain Marvel did need the "restarts" to not stay around but to grow an audience. The people who are buying issue 1s aren't just speculators some of those people become customers.

I don't think I have suggested numbers aren't important or ridiculous, Plus my last two post was me posting numbers so clearly I see value in numbers. How people use these numbers are ridiculous tho and some people used them try to sell Captain Marvel has failure in the comic world. Anyways Marvel doesn't need her to become Superman that is fan talk, What Marvel need was

1. Marvel need her to become relevant to Marvel universe. If Check out any event that Marvel has done Captain Marvel gets a book like Wolverine or Thor or Iron Man. They need her to have importance which is why she got Alpha Flight or Avengers leadership.

2. Captain Marvel to be able to hold a book consistently with a reasonable base of fans

You guys are wrong. They were never looking for her to takeover and dominate the market become the Next Superman level character , All they need was her to be Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, Dr. Strange, Thor etc in the comic world which mid ish tier book that is viable enough in comic sales and relevant enough that when they need to push you to match up with movies or some initiative aimed at women she is around and relevant. Marvel has succeeded in its goal, They have strong female character which they can market to girls and women in the realm outside of comics while be being important enough inside of comics. And they started the push before the X-men characters was back in the fold where maybe better choices to push would be available .Marvel has succeed in what it needed Captain Marvel to do and they are people running around still spouting the same nonsense over and over

- I hate Captain Marvel because of Civil War, I use to like her now I hate her
- The push of Captain Marvel isn't working why do they keep pushing her
- The push of Captain Marvel is so forced it will never work
- They had to keep restarting Captain Marvel because her book does poorly and she doesn't sell

When it is a billion dollars movie later, she has good presence with general public in merchandising, it looks like a stable comic fanbase to sell books to and relevance in universe as important character.