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  1. #301
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    Star Wars isn't as big as Fast and Furious worldwide. Outside of the Disney Star Wars movies, none of the Star Wars movies have performed like those movies.

    A number of franchises from Avengers to even LoTR (adjusted that is) are bigger than Star Wars worldwide. Its just the way it is, this isn't the 70s.

    So when folks are expecting Star Wars to perform like Avengers or FF ww when the franchise has traditionally been bigger in the US, a little perspective is required.
    Last edited by Username taken; 02-03-2020 at 12:28 PM.
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Star Wars isn't as big as Fast and Furious worldwide. Outside of the Disney Star Wars movies, none of the Star Wars movies have performed like those movies.

    A number of franchises from Avengers to even LoTR (adjusted that is) are bigger than Star Wars worldwide. Its just the way it is, this isn't the 70s.

    So when folks are expecting Star Wars to perform like Avengers or FF ww when the franchise has traditionally been bigger in the US, a little perspective is required.
    And this is why the Disney star wars are complete failures, they should have had star wars making more money than Avengers and transformers by now. this is the perspective, it should have gone further than 2.3 billion from Force Awakens or at least stayed in the 2 billion range when you consider episode 4 made over 700m world wide in 1977 and Episode 1 made over 900m in 1999.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    And this is why the Disney star wars are complete failures, they should have had star wars making more money than Avengers and transformers by now. this is the perspective, it should have gone further than 2.3 billion from Force Awakens or at least stayed in the 2 billion range when you consider episode 4 made over 700m world wide in 1977 and Episode 1 made over 900m in 1999.
    Why should Star Wars movies make more than Avengers?? That's a totally random assertion. Episode 4 made that money after a series of re-releases because of the nature of film releases then. It made about $220 million in its initial run (which was still massive either way).

    To Disney's credit, their Star Wars movies are the biggest ones. So they've done that. I might disagree with some of their choices but outside of Marvel, theres no other franchise that even comes close. If my maths is correct, the new Star Wars movies have done over $5 billion and only Solo has done below a billion. Disney's movies have been a colossal financial success.

    That being said, Star Wars is an ongoing saga that started in the 70s. It literally holds no coin for folks that didn't watch them or grow up with them like more recent franchises. Folks in Asia and China dont have any sentimental attachment to it like people in the West do. So I really dont expect any turnaround with the saga movies, perhaps something totally new like a high republic movie might get people in the East.
    Last edited by Username taken; 02-03-2020 at 01:15 PM.
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Why should Star Wars movies make more than Avengers?? That's a totally random assertion. Episode 4 made that money after a series of re-releases because of the nature of film releases then. It made about $220 million in its initial run (which was still massive either way).


    .

    Star Wars should make more than Avengers because it Star Wars, it a more iconic and impactful franchise and has shown from their past movies that the series is capable of having a highly quality artistic block buster experience. Sigh, even James Cameron was disappointed with the Force Awakens. The only other person apart from Spielberg and Lucas that could make timeless blockbuster movies

    To Disney's credit, their Star Wars movies are the biggest ones. So they've done that. I might disagree with some of their choices but outside of Marvel, theres no other franchise that even comes close. If my maths is correct, the new Star Wars movies have done over $5 billion and only Solo has done below a billion. Disney's movies have been a colossal financial success.
    The Disney star wars movies are not the biggest ones. if episode 1-6 were to come out post 2015, they would have made more money than the Disney star wars movies.


    That being said, Star Wars is an ongoing saga that started in the 70s. It literally holds no coin for folks that didn't watch them or grow up with them like more recent franchises. Folks in Asia and China dont have any sentimental attachment to it like people in the West do. So I really dont expect any turnaround with the saga movies, perhaps something totally new like a high republic movie might get people in the East
    In the contrary it still hold a coin since it can rile up so much passionate fans after 40 years of OT and 20 years of PT. Star Wars had higher standards than Fast and Furious and Avengers and to see it destroyed like this, is something Disney has to deal with moving forward. this is what their box office is reflecting.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 02-03-2020 at 11:14 PM.

  5. #305
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Star Wars should make more than Avengers because it Star Wars, it a more iconic and impactful franchise and has shown from their past movies that the series is capable of having a highly quality artistic block buster experience. Sigh, even James Cameron was disappointed with the Force Awakens. The only other person apart from Spielberg and Lucas that could make timeless blockbuster movies


    The Disney star wars movies are not the biggest ones. if episode 1-6 were to come out post 2015, they would have made more money than the Disney star wars movies.

    In the contrary it still hold a coin since it can rile up so much passionate fans after 40 years of OT and 20 years of PT. Star Wars had higher standards than Fast and Furious and Avengers and to see it destroyed like it, is something Disney has to deal with moving forward. this is what their box office is reflecting.
    So Star Wars should make more because you like it more and not because of any objective measure available to us? That's what you're saying right?

  6. #306

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    Personally if I was an executive I would be happy with the money I did make. However it would be a lie to say I wouldn't want to make more.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Star Wars should make more than Avengers because it Star Wars, it a more iconic and impactful franchise and has shown from their past movies that the series is capable of having a highly quality artistic block buster experience. Sigh, even James Cameron was disappointed with the Force Awakens. The only other person apart from Spielberg and Lucas that could make timeless blockbuster movies


    The Disney star wars movies are not the biggest ones. if episode 1-6 were to come out post 2015, they would have made more money than the Disney star wars movies.

    In the contrary it still hold a coin since it can rile up so much passionate fans after 40 years of OT and 20 years of PT. Star Wars had higher standards than Fast and Furious and Avengers and to see it destroyed like it, is something Disney has to deal with moving forward. this is what their box office is reflecting.
    Nope, Star Wars isn’t making more than Avengers WW because Avengers is bigger worldwide. I might as well suggest that Ant-man should be making more than Batman worldwide for no good reason. It just doesn’t work that way. Star Wars is iconic to some people but to a lot of people Fast and Furious and Avengers and even Spider-man is simply more important. Like I said earlier, this isn’t the 70s and Star Wars hasn’t been the biggest franchise in the world for a long time.

    I don’t have th adjuster figures but I doubt the prequels did better than the current trilogy. Maybe domestically, it’s possible but worldwide, it’s not even close. Most of the passionate Star Wars you’re referring to are probably in the US and maybe Europe, apart from that, most people simply don’t have that passion for Star Wars.
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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    Personally if I was an executive I would be happy with the money I did make. However it would be a lie to say I wouldn't want to make more.

    Most definitely.

    $1 billion+ is never something to sniff at but there’s still a feeling the movie could have done better. Clearly a lot of people have been turned off the new stuff. That’s something that Disney will need to look at going forward.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  9. #309
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    And this is why the Disney star wars are complete failures, they should have had star wars making more money than Avengers and transformers by now. this is the perspective, it should have gone further than 2.3 billion from Force Awakens or at least stayed in the 2 billion range when you consider episode 4 made over 700m world wide in 1977 and Episode 1 made over 900m in 1999.
    This doesn't make sense Star Wars has never performed amazing in Asia with China being the next biggest movie market. Star Wars shouldn't make more than Avengers and Transformers because those films in kill in China. In fact I will say this if Avatar 2 is good enough movie it will easily do better than Star Wars because Avatar is big international. Movies have play to world market they are some rare stuff like Joker that kill almost only mainly domestically or Pacific Rim which killed mainly internationally but most big movies do well in US AND Asia. Which is why companies will bend over to take out certain content of movies so it can play in China. Here is actual numbers of successful movies they all have something in common


    Aquaman 291,800,000 (China) 335,061,807 (US)
    TROS 20,549,419 (China) 507,075,904 (US)
    Pacific Rim 111,940,000(China) 101,802,906(US)
    Avatar 202,619,650(China) 749,766,139(US)


    Avengers
    Endgame 614,316,021(China) 858,373,000(US)
    Infinity Wars 359,543,153(China) 678,815,482 (US)

    Fast & Furious
    Hobbs and Shaw 201,000,988 (China) 173,810,100 (US)
    Fate of the Furious 392,807,017(China) 226,008,385(US)
    Furious 7 390,910,000 (China) 353,007,020(US)

    Jurassic Park
    Jurassic World 228,740,000(China) 652,270,625 (US)
    Fallen Kingdom 261,224,207(China) 417,719,760(US)

    Transformers
    The Last Knight 228,842,508 (China) 130,168,683 (US)
    The Dark of the Moon 165,100,000(China) 352,390,543(US)

    Star Wars Modern
    Rogue One 532,177,324 (US) 69,484,899 (China)
    The Last Jedi 620,181,382 (US) 42,577,974 (China)
    Solo--- 213,767,512 (US) 16,473,217(China)
    Force Awakens 936,662,225(US) 124,159,000 (China)

    Star War Prequels
    Attack of Clones 302,191,252 (US) 5,488,408 (China)
    Revenge of Sith 380,270,577(US) 9,128,645(China)
    Phantom Menace 431,088,295 (US) 4,100,273(China)

    Star Wars has never been great in China, Why in the world would anybody predict/expect it to produce over stuff that are proven to work in foreign Markets and excel in the biggest foreign market. Star Wars is a primarily US phenom with childhood nostalgia playing heavy factor. So here is your statement corrected Star Wars is a complete failure IN CHINA . Maybe now with "the Skywalker saga" over it will be successful China market not playing to nostalgia. I mean Jedi and the force part of Star Wars is basically Wushu/Wuxia it makes no sense why it couldn't be more popular in China.

    PS-I forgot one thing most other Markets like UK,Germany,Japan,South Korea or Brazil would give only somewhere between 20 to 70 million. US and China are the only markets that give you 100+ million. Making it import to be success in those markets key Pacific Rim got a sequel on strength just being successful in China. A chinese movie like Wandering Earth could have been even more ridiculous success if they pandered to US audience a little.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 02-04-2020 at 12:26 AM.

  10. #310
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    I think I remember someone on another thread saying they grew up in China and Star Wars was never really popular there, because even though it had similarities to wushu/ wuxia l, it wasn’t and it seemed ‘weird.’ So I guess it was like an uncanny valley wushu, lol.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Nope, Star Wars isn’t making more than Avengers WW because Avengers is bigger worldwide. I might as well suggest that Ant-man should be making more than Batman worldwide for no good reason. It just doesn’t work that way. Star Wars is iconic to some people but to a lot of people Fast and Furious and Avengers and even Spider-man is simply more important. Like I said earlier, this isn’t the 70s and Star Wars hasn’t been the biggest franchise in the world for a long time.

    I don’t have th adjuster figures but I doubt the prequels did better than the current trilogy. Maybe domestically, it’s possible but worldwide, it’s not even close. Most of the passionate Star Wars you’re referring to are probably in the US and maybe Europe, apart from that, most people simply don’t have that passion for Star Wars.
    Episode 7 made more than the first two Avengers movies worldwide, way more money . It was the first non James Cameron movie to make over 2 billion dollars, so your argument that star wars is not that well known outside USA is wrong even with an okay run in China for episode 7.

    Disney not having the tools, direction or intelligence to build on that is what went wrong. You seem to be going in circles, I have seen this type of discussion before. It is more about studio loyalty. So let me now shatter that narrative once and for all

    Please can you tell me why other studios like Warner Brothers, Fox and Sony saw their box office decline with many of their flag ship franchises. Batman v Superman and Justice League, X-Men Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix and Amazing Spiderman 1 and 2. Even Warner Brothers that once could not do any wrong with Harry Potter now seem to be in trouble with the Harry Potter extended universe movies. All these franchise like Disney star wars have seen their box office go down with each entry.

    Because whatever mistakes these studios made that made their franchises go down, am sure mistakes you will agree with, with me. it is the exact same mistakes that Disney has made with star wars that has also made their box office go down in flames. So why are you treating Disney as an exception, hmmmm the joy of studio loyalty that I will never understand or play by.

    Lastly I will live with this video, about the argument that star wars is not that iconic and please don't say it is about race or gender again because that card has sailed with disney star wars


    This dude is right. when he said star wars should never be compared to MCU sequels movies or Transformers. Goes to show just has less impactful or iconic this Disney movies are compared to the classic Marvel or Star Wars OT. people just see them as by-products, only this time by-products with no sense of direction that is now causing collateral damage.

    You do also know just because something makes more money does not mean it is more iconic? reason we don't put Avengers and Transformers in the same level as star wars and star trek. No Star Trek movie has ever made up to 500m and it is a far more iconic franchise than Avengers ever will be. same goes for star wars. only thing is star wars actually used to make money before Disney came along with their Solo, Rise of Skywalker bombs and massive sequel box office decline with Last Jedi
    Last edited by Beaddle; 02-05-2020 at 02:11 AM.

  12. #312
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    Episode 7 made more than the first two Avengers movies worldwide, way more money . It was the first non James Cameron movie to make over 2 billion dollars, so your argument that star wars is not that well known outside USA is wrong even with an okay run in China for episode 7.

    Disney not having the tools, direction or intelligence to build on that is what went wrong. You seem to be going in circles, I have seen this type of discussion before. It is more about studio loyalty. So let me now shatter that narrative once and for all

    The only Star Wars movie to make even close to what Avengers made worldwide is Episode 7. And even at that, Episode 7 didn't make as much as the last two Avengers movies and no Star Wars movie before or after has come close to Avengers 1 and 2. So, yeah, Avengers is a much, much bigger deal than Star Wars WW. You might not like that but that doesn't change the fact (supported by figures by the way).

    Please can you tell me why other studios like Warner Brothers, Fox and Sony saw their box office decline with many of their flag ship franchises. Batman v Superman and Justice League, X-Men Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix and Amazing Spiderman 1 and 2. Even Warner Brothers that once could not do any wrong with Harry Potter now seem to be in trouble with the Harry Potter extended universe movies. All these franchise like Disney star wars have seen their box office go down with each entry.

    Because whatever mistakes these studios made that made their franchises go down, am sure mistakes you will agree with, with me. it is the exact same mistakes that Disney has made with star wars that has also made their box office go down in flames. So why are you treating Disney as an exception, hmmmm the joy of studio loyalty that I will never understand or play by.
    You really need to analyse these situations more critically and keep emotions out of it.

    None of the movies you mentioned are billion dollar grossers like the current Star Wars movies so the comparison is entirely pointless. If BvS or Justice League had hit a billion, they would have been considered massive hits. All this being said, the current WB superhero universe experienced peaks and valleys but has subsequently blown up with Aquaman and Joker (to a lesser extent) grossing over a billion. They are not in decline, at all. Sony entered an arrangement with regarding Spider-man with Disney and those movies have been massive, their own Marvel universe character is Venom and that movie was a massive hit. The Fox X-men is a dead franchise, so it doesn't come into it at all.

    Lastly I will live with this video, about the argument that star wars is not that iconic and please don't say it is about race or gender again because that card has sailed with disney star wars
    I genuinely don't understand what this means. I don't have the time for fragile middle-aged men raging against "wahmen" in Star Wars, so that video means nothing IMHO.

    This dude is right. when he said star wars should never be compared to MCU sequels movies or Transformers. Goes to show just has less impactful or iconic this Disney movies are compared to the classic Marvel or Star Wars OT. people just see them as by-products, only this time by-products with no sense of direction that is now causing collateral damage.

    You do also know just because something makes more money does not mean it is more iconic? reason we don't put Avengers and Transformers in the same level as star wars and star trek. No Star Trek movie has ever made up to 500m and it is a far more iconic franchise than Avengers ever will be. same goes for star wars. only thing is star wars actually used to make money before Disney came along with their Solo, Rise of Skywalker bombs and massive sequel box office decline with Last Jedi
    There are people on Earth that have never head of Star Trek but have watched multiple Avengers, Transformers and Fast &Furious movies. I would even argue that Star Trek doesn't hold the cultural cache it once did. So perhaps in the West, Star Wars is more iconic but the world isn't the West alone. Star Wars and Star Trek are pretty much nothing in Asia and China and yes, in those regions, Transformers, Avengers and Fast & Furious are far more iconic. Yes, Solo was a flop but Star Wars has never been bigger than it is now, I mean, TROS (despite tepid reviews) just made over a billion, another massive hit. Disney have made mistakes but financially, they've made their "Star Wars' money.
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  13. #313
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Episode 7 made more than the first two Avengers movies worldwide, Disney not building from that is where things went wrong. You seem to be going in circles, I have seen this type of discussion before. It is more about studio loyalty for Disney. So let me now shatter that narrative once and for all
    .
    Of course you ignore the post with numbers. So here they are again

    Force Awakens 936,662,225(US) 124,159,000(China)

    Episode 7 made an Ungodly amount of money in US. Off the hype of first star wars movie being back in long time. There was no way possible the series was going to sustain that number. Star Wars has problem it is US centric franchise and it doesn't appeal to the place that lifts up the box office of every other film.

    I am keep simple for you TROS made more money domestically than Aquaman and any Jurassic Park, Transformers, and Fast Furious film. How in flying f*** is that failure oh yeah it made only 20 million China where other blockbuster films make 200 and 300 million dollars. The numbers are there for you to see, Jurassic World and Infinity Wars are sitting at 600 million domestic which is impressive so what does say about a film that made 500 million. We can see where the problem is stuff like Titanic and Avatar(700 million) Avengers Endgame(800 million) and Force Awakens(900 million) are freaks of nature. You argument is basically saying that this Star Wars film is failure for not performing in the freak range and performing better in the US than every picture in Jurassic Park, Transformers, and Fast Furious franchises and Avengers age of Ultron, Captain America Civil War.

    How stupid is this topic Fate of the furious only made 200 million plus domestically and the movie hit a billion worldwide. We are here talking about movie that made 500 million domestically and made a billion worldwide as if it is some sort of black sheep. Honestly Disney just needs to sit down figure out how to make money in China and Asia. You are basically implying that all Star Wars films need to make 600 and 700 million dollars domestically something only 13 movies have ever done to be called a success.


    1 Star Wars: The Force Awakens- $936,662,225
    2 Avengers: Endgame- $858,373,000
    3 Avatar- $749,766,139
    4 Black Panther- $700,059,566
    5 Avengers: Infinity War- $678,815,482
    6 Titanic- $600,788,188 $659,363,944
    7 Jurassic World- $652,270,625
    8 The Avengers- $623,357,910
    9 Star Wars: The Last Jedi- $620,181,382
    10 Incredibles 2- $608,581,744
    11 The Lion King- $543,638,043
    12 The Dark Knight - $533,345,358
    13 Rogue One: A Star Wars Story- $532,177,324
    14 Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker film currently playing

    Yeah that is how successful this movie is from a US/north america perspective. What is more realistic improving from 20 million in China or movies consistently making 600 million?
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 02-05-2020 at 03:55 AM.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Of course you ignore the post with numbers. So here they are again

    Force Awakens 936,662,225(US) 124,159,000(China)

    Episode 7 made an Ungodly amount of money in US. Off the hype of first star wars movie being back in long time. There was no way possible the series was going to sustain that number. Star Wars has problem it is US centric franchise and it doesn't appeal to the place that lifts up the box office of every other film.

    I am keep simple for you TROS made more money domestically than Aquaman and any Jurassic Park, Transformers, and Fast Furious film. How in flying f*** is that failure oh yeah it made only 20 million China where other blockbuster films make 200 and 300 million dollars. The numbers are there for you to see, Jurassic World and Infinity Wars are sitting at 600 million domestic which is impressive so what does say about a film that made 500 million. We can see where the problem is stuff like Titanic and Avatar(700 million) Avengers Endgame(800 million) and Force Awakens(900 million) are freaks of nature. You argument is basically saying that this Star Wars film is failure for not performing in the freak range and performing better in the US than every picture in Jurassic Park, Transformers, and Fast Furious franchises and Avengers age of Ultron, Captain America Civil War.

    How stupid is this topic Fate of the furious only made 200 million plus domestically and the movie hit a billion worldwide. We are here talking about movie that made 500 million domestically and made a billion worldwide as if it is some sort of black sheep. Honestly Disney just needs to sit down figure out how to make money in China and Asia. You are basically implying that all Star Wars films need to make 600 and 700 million dollars domestically something only 13 movies have ever done to be called a success.


    1 Star Wars: The Force Awakens- $936,662,225
    2 Avengers: Endgame- $858,373,000
    3 Avatar- $749,766,139
    4 Black Panther- $700,059,566
    5 Avengers: Infinity War- $678,815,482
    6 Titanic- $600,788,188 $659,363,944
    7 Jurassic World- $652,270,625
    8 The Avengers- $623,357,910
    9 Star Wars: The Last Jedi- $620,181,382
    10 Incredibles 2- $608,581,744
    11 The Lion King- $543,638,043
    12 The Dark Knight - $533,345,358
    13 Rogue One: A Star Wars Story- $532,177,324
    14 Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker film currently playing

    Yeah that is how successful this movie is from a US/north america perspective.
    Star wars domestically should have stayed within the 700m range by now considering episode 7 made 900m. when you consider the drops between episode 4 and 5 and episode 1 and 2.

    Now let me and the financial experts make it easier as ABC, 123 and do re mi to end the game of Disney star wars failures.

    Episode 7 made about 2.3 billion dollars worldwide, if you read my last post I said it did okay with China, the real question here is why didn't that numbers grow? like Avengers grew and transfers grew with their sequels. it easy. the new movies are not that good and star wars has higher standards of quality or information out there the new star wars movies declined in box office both in USA, China, Europe because the new movies are mediocre.


    Now let's see how the proclaimed experts told the story

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ri...rds-2019-12-22
    Rise of Skywalker’ flops by ‘Star Wars’ standards, but ‘Cats’ flops by anyone’s standards

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a3...total-numbers/
    Why Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker has disappointed at the box office

    https://screenrant.com/star-wars-ris...tment-bad-why/
    The Rise of Skywalker Is A Box Office Disappointment (Despite Grossing $1 Billion)

    https://cosmicbook.news/star-war-sky...e-huge-failure
    Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' Box Office Huge Failure

    https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...chise-history/
    Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Suffers Unprecedented Box Office Drop

    Most of this coverage are 2020 news. As of the 4th of February, the final evaluation has been certified that star wars rise of Skywalker is a box office failure and a disappointment.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 02-05-2020 at 04:28 AM.

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    disappointed at the box Office is not the same as box Office failure.

    The last Star Wars made perhaps not as much as hoped but just the box Office made Disney Money.

    Adding the DVDs Streaming and what have you they will make Money for some time on that.

    And that is not even going into the merchandise or the Money made from companies putting Star Wars on their products. That made Lucas more Money than the box Office and it will only be getting bigger.

    And YouTube Videos like that you posted are like the Promi magazines at the cashout in the Supermarket. Made up stuff that has Little to do with Facts.

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