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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basbash99 View Post
    Don't worry, these folks can move goalposts as adeptly as Jedi... anything in service to their need to convince others that a movie they hate is one that everybody else is required to hate, too. And of course, since its impossible to disprove any statement along the lines of "the movie would've made more money if they had done it the way i say they should've", the argument will [theoretically] never end.

    I will say, at least these arguments, whether bad faith or not, do come from a place of passion. People don't bother to go on and on about movie franchises they are indifferent to, but ones that they were fans of, at least at some point. Probably the closest i've come to "the dark side" is the DC movies, where i disliked Snyder's films a lot because i like DC characters and felt they deserved better. But that's off topic.
    I don't know. I really, really did not like the Last Jedi. It had it's moments but, overall, I really did not like it. But I'm not playing this game of pretending it wasn't an overwhelming success just because I didn't like it.

    But we've seen this game played enough times now to know how it goes. It won't make a billion. Then it does but that somehow doesn't prove it was popular. It may possibly even move into accusations of Disney buying tickets.

    But I also agree that, for those who will never admit to how popular and successful it is, it comes not from apathy about Star Wars but from a place of passion about what they feel Star Wars was and should always be.
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  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    The problem is, Star Wars was originally about hope.
    This film has the most downbeat ending of all of them....even more than Rogue One.


    Who wants to see something like that at Christmas?
    Honestly, without giving away anything, I thought the ending was amazingly hopeful.
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  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Star Wars was already one of the most beloved franchises on earth, transcending age and gender - all the demographics were already covered. Yet in their arrogance Disney thought that they could do better, alienating the Star Wars fanbase in pursuit of new audiences that never actually existed. China outright rejected Star Wars, 'Solo: A Star Wars Story' had be renamed 'Ranger Solo' to remove all references of the Star War name and the Chinese still didn't watch it, they care even less about TROS now. While the critics Disney courted in the media with TLJ just as easily turned on Star Wars once it became clear that TROS no longer followed the same narrative, fair weather friends indeed. So in the end what we have here is 4 billion dollars (plus production costs) and 7 years wasted only to bring a modern mythology to ruin, that is the entirely forseeable tragedy of Disney's trilogy.
    As I recollect, back in the 1970s, Star Wars was outright banned in China. It's the story of a bunch of individualist rebels taking on a collective empire, not something China wants percolating in the minds of the citizens. Which is not to say the new trilogy wasn't poorly thought out, especially putting a guy in charge of the middle movie that has an approach almost diametrically opposed to the guy in charge of the first and third.

    There's also the Internet factor. When the original trilogy came out, people had complaints about "Empire" and other stuff. But ticket sales told the story. They still do but it's far easier now for everyone who dislikes something to give the impression they are a significant portion of the audience even when ticket sales reach a billion dollars.
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  4. #49
    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    Folks, I'm going to start bouncing people that can't help but take shots at the people they disagree with or refer to them disrespectfully/condescendingly. Discuss the topic, not each other.
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  5. #50
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    As I recollect, back in the 1970s, Star Wars was outright banned in China. It's the story of a bunch of individualist rebels taking on a collective empire, not something China wants percolating in the minds of the citizens. Which is not to say the new trilogy wasn't poorly thought out, especially putting a guy in charge of the middle movie that has an approach almost diametrically opposed to the guy in charge of the first and third.

    There's also the Internet factor. When the original trilogy came out, people had complaints about "Empire" and other stuff. But ticket sales told the story. They still do but it's far easier now for everyone who dislikes something to give the impression they are a significant portion of the audience even when ticket sales reach a billion dollars.
    I'm of Chinese heritage, so let me chime in on this: in China, wuxia fiction (best known in the West in the form of CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON) has been a part of popular culture for decades, if not centuries. STAR WARS borrows many concepts from wuxia fiction. To a Chinese audience, all the mythos surrounding the Force, the Jedi, and the Sith is at once tantalizingly familiar and yet, at the same time, strangely foreign. Therefore, many Chinese audiences view STAR WARS' blend of concepts an unpalatable mixture of ideas that are both familiar and alien at the same time. For this reason, STAR WARS has never appealed to Chinese audiences en masse.

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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    As I recollect, back in the 1970s, Star Wars was outright banned in China.
    Try again. 70s China was a closed state having emerged from the Cultural Revolution around the same time as the release of ANH.

    It's the story of a bunch of individualist rebels taking on a collective empire, not something China wants percolating in the minds of the citizens.
    That narrative would be entirely familiar to Chinese audiences because that's basically the entire narrative of the Communist party. And it's the narrative they continue to sell the people to this day of plucky rebels against the Japanese Empire and Evil Nationalists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    For this reason, STAR WARS has never appealed to Chinese audiences en masse.
    I disagree. It does well in the other places of Sinosphere such as Singapore, HK and Taiwan. It's pretty clear China's lack of interest was because the OT was not released there in the 70s and 80s.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 12-28-2019 at 08:09 PM.

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basbash99 View Post
    Another $26 mil on Friday so about $598 million total.
    These numbers aren't good, TROS actually dropped 71% on Friday. Meanwhile the predicted weekend totals keep being revised downward. TROS may not even make 65 million domestically in it's second weekend and the less said about the dismal international box office the better. Crossing 1 billion looks less likely with each passing day.
    Last edited by Kintor; 12-28-2019 at 09:04 PM.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I'm of Chinese heritage, so let me chime in on this: in China, wuxia fiction (best known in the West in the form of CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON) has been a part of popular culture for decades, if not centuries. STAR WARS borrows many concepts from wuxia fiction. To a Chinese audience, all the mythos surrounding the Force, the Jedi, and the Sith is at once tantalizingly familiar and yet, at the same time, strangely foreign. Therefore, many Chinese audiences view STAR WARS' blend of concepts an unpalatable mixture of ideas that are both familiar and alien at the same time. For this reason, STAR WARS has never appealed to Chinese audiences en masse.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I know nothing about wuxia, so I'd be curious r.e. some examples of things that Star Wars has in common with it and stuff that different that makes it off-putting.
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  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    These numbers aren't good, TROS actually dropped 71% on Friday. Meanwhile the predicted weekend totals keep being revised downward. TROS may not even make 65 million domestically in it's second weekend and the less said about the dismal international box office the better. Crossing 1 billion looks less likely with each passing day.
    From Deadline

    Saturday AM Update: with chart Throughout yesterday, most industry estimates showed Disney’s Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker beating Last Jedi in its 10th day of release (on Sunday) by $12.8M. But they’ve retreated on their forecasts. If business today can outstrip Friday’s figure of $26.2M (still a very good number), then Skywalker can possibly match or near Last Jedi by Sunday.

    Box office sources got excited yesterday about the weekend outlook when they spotted Skywalker‘s resurge over Christmas and Dec. 26. Skywalker‘s 3-day is still in the range that many were forecasting heading into the weekend ($70M-$80M), with $76M (-57%). That figure is ahead of Last Jedi‘s second weekend (not counting its Christmas Monday), which was $71.6M (-68%). 5-day is lower than what we were seeing at $138.8M, with a running total by Sunday of $365.8M, just $2.36M behind Last Jedi at the same point in time. Still, a final domestic gross well north of $600M is in store for Skywalker (Last Jedi ending its run at $620.1M).
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 12-28-2019 at 11:38 PM.

  10. #55
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    From Deadline
    Deadline has been barracking for TROS since before release, they always over-estimate the take and try to put a postive spin on even Disney's most pathetic numbers. Deadline's 76m prediction is not going to happen, like I said in my last post 65 million at best is the ceiling. TROS was a heavily frontloaded film, these sharp drop offs are only going to get worse with time.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Sigh....

    Box office Pro
    Saturday Update: Disney reports this morning that Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker posted another $26.234 million on Friday, bringing its eight-day domestic haul to $316 million. That moves the trilogy-capper within 2 percent of the eight-day tally of The Last Jedi two years ago and sets Rise on course for a three-day sophomore weekend in the range of $70 – 80 million, pending those pesky holiday multipliers. If the film lands on the higher end of that range, it would surpass the 10-day tally of Last Jedi ($368.2 million) by Sunday’s end.
    Box office Mojo

    Set to repeat atop the box office is Disney's Rise of Skywalker. The latest installment in the Star Wars franchise delivered the second largest Christmas Day gross all-time on Wednesday and should easily post a better hold over its second weekend than Last Jedi did a couple year back when it dipped -67.5%. Right now we're anticipating a drop around -45% this weekend and a three-day just shy of $98 million for a domestic cume topping $380 million by Sunday.
    Forbes

    Rise of Skywalker grossed $316 million domestic in eight days, essentially neck-and-neck with The Last Jedi’s $321 million eight-day cume after a $220 million opening weekend. It could gross around $31 million today, giving it a nine-day total of around $346 million, or just below Last Jedi’s $350 million nine-day domestic cume. Barring a fluke in either direction, we can expect a $78 million second-weekend gross, down a “meh” 56% from its $176 million opening weekend.
    And reposting Deadline again
    Box office sources got excited yesterday about the weekend outlook when they spotted Skywalker‘s resurge over Christmas and Dec. 26. Skywalker‘s 3-day is still in the range that many were forecasting heading into the weekend ($70M-$80M), with $76M (-57%).
    Hmmm

    Box office report.com
    Disney's Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker continued to lead the daily box office on Friday after taking in an estimated $26.234 million for the day. After holding up nicely throughout the midweek, Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker did lose some momentum on Friday, as the film was down 14.2 percent from Thursday's Boxing Day take and down an understandably sharp 70.7 percent from last Friday's opening day performance.

    Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker passed the $300 million domestic mark yesterday and has grossed a healthy $316.031 million through eight days. That places the film a slim 1.7 percent behind the $321.365 million eight-day haul of 2017's Star Wars: The Last Jedi (which grossed $24.763 million on its second Friday). However, it should be reminded that Star Wars: The Last Jedi was still three days away from the Christmas holiday at the same point in its run. Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker registered the seventh largest eight-day gross of all-time (just behind last year's Black Panther and just ahead of 2012's Marvel's The Avengers).
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 12-28-2019 at 11:46 PM.

  12. #57
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Sigh....
    Those articles you are citing were written before the weekend even began, they are out of date. These overly optimistic predictions of 75-80m haven't matched the early data that is coming in. A maximum of 65m seems more likely at this point, could do worse if Sunday and Monday numbers fall below even the revised predictions.

  13. #58
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    You know what I find ironic is they postponed the art book, and several other tie ins, until next year. And I think they'll find they've shot themselves in the foot, because if this film doesn't attract the crowds they obviously expect it to......
    Will the books sell? They should have released them at the same time as the film.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    You know what I find ironic is they postponed the art book, and several other tie ins, until next year. And I think they'll find they've shot themselves in the foot, because if this film doesn't attract the crowds they obviously expect it to......
    Will the books sell? They should have released them at the same time as the film.
    But which is worse is having a huge spoiler come out and kill momentum by revealing two of bigger surprises in the movie or having to eat some inventory? Plus at least for everyone involved they can gauge interest and they know how to treat the merch imagine being trapped with ton of stuff after the opening weekend. Both Disney and the stores can cut their losses better, The manufacturer is screwed tho. Disney is built to eat losses like this they loss estimated 3 million in retail on Baby Yoda not being available and based on holiday trends it is probably more because the market can overcompensate for when trendy thing is hard to get ala "tickle me Elmo".

    I don't have answer if it is worth holding back stuff to prevent spoilers and maybe damage the main product value is worth holding it back and missing out on the wave and momentum. It become ordering supply game if Disney(and stores) was conservative then they are fine,neither is trapped with a bunch of product that they can't move, If they overestimate the market and demand,they are both trapped with bunch of things they can't move. Not having enough product when you are on fire with customer also sucks which is it is game. But real question is why would retailer be super bullish on Star Wars stuff after last movie.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Box Office: 'Rise of Skywalker' Rides to $725M Globally


    ‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’ Dominates Final 2019 Weekend with $72 Million


    Collider
    To that end, Rise of Skywalker reeled in $72 million domestically from 4,406 theaters and and whopping $94.3 million overseas with 52 territories accounted for. This means Rise of Skywalker is ending its second weekend in theaters with a global weekend total of $166.6 million. Among the top international territories are (in order): the UK ($51.4M), Germany ($44.1M), France ($34.7M), Japan ($29.2M), and Australia ($21.2M). The Rise of Skywalker is just as big a movie overseas as it is here in the U.S., topping the charts in countries including Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Bolivia, Trinidad, and Uruguay.

    To date, Rise of Skywalker has made $362 million domestically, $363 million internationally, and crossed the $700 million mark in its global lifetime total with $725 million in the bank. Although Rise of Skywalker is still behind the record-breaking Star Wars: Episode VII – The Force Awakens (the movie’s two-week domestic total was up to $540 million in 2015), it has caught up with the pace set up by Star Wars: The Last Jedi in 2017. Back then, The Last Jedi‘s two-week total was at $368 million. So yeah, who cares if The Rise of Skywalker dipped 59% in its earnings from opening weekend — this one’s got legs!
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 12-29-2019 at 11:47 AM.

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