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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Empire Strikes Back was hardly hopeful, so was Revenge of the Sith, It does not matter if it is light or dark or depressing or hopeful, each of this elements can be good if it has a good story and good writing. ROS posses none of this attributes. Some people would just not go twice to see a poorly done movie, regardless of the tone or lesson.

    You know its so funny, when I went to the screening of ROS, After the film ended and the credit started rolling. people were just walking out in silence, I could tell they were disappointed and would not be coming back to rewatch. if people don't come back, box office would not get bigger.
    So far, they are coming back.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    I like how some people have transition from "TROS isn't going coming close to making a billion dollars" to "well 1 billion dollars is disappointing for a Star Wars movie". I can't wait until they figure out by end of weekend Star Wars is going about 1 billion worldwide.

  3. #33
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I like how some people have transition from "TROS isn't going coming close to making a billion dollars" to "well 1 billion dollars is disappointing for a Star Wars movie". I can't wait until they figure out by end of weekend Star Wars is going about 1 billion worldwide.
    Even in your best case scenario TROS making less then Rogue One is a complete disaster for Disney. Showing that the mistakes they made with their trilogy have done serious damage to the brand. That the sharp drops with TLJ and Solo bombing were not an isolated incident. These low numbers are the new normal. Failing to reach a billion is just the final humilation for a franchise that has been mismanaged ever since the aquisition.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Even in your best case scenario TROS making less then Rogue One is a complete disaster for Disney. Showing that the mistakes they made with their trilogy have done serious damage to the brand. That the sharp drops with TLJ and Solo bombing were not an isolated incident. These low numbers are the new normal. Failing to reach a billion is just the final humilation for a franchise that has been mismanaged ever since the aquisition.
    Facts:

    TFA and TLJ were the highest grossing movie of their years of release. R1 was the second-highest-grossing movie of its release year. That accounts for over half the franchise under Disney management to date. Solo was very much an isolated incident (messy production with overblown budget and poor marketing) and we don't know what TROS will end up at.

    So yeah, this idea that Disney mismanaged and damaged Star Wars, I'm sorry, but it does not fit the facts, no matter how much some of us may want it too.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  5. #35
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    I think the movie will do fine at the box office and on home video. Anyone know what's going on with the related merch?

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  6. #36
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    So yeah, this idea that Disney mismanaged and damaged Star Wars, I'm sorry, but it does not fit the facts, no matter how much some of us may want it too.
    You must realise that after all the underperforming and outright failures at the box office Disney is pulling back on their support for Star Wars. Don't forget that the Boba Fett and Obi-Wan movies were cancelled after Solo bombed. Then you have the Game of Thrones guys bailing on their trilogy, so that's gone as well. While Rian Johnson has stopped talking about his planned trilogy, that's probably canceled, TROS more or less gave TLJ the middle finger. Perhaps Star Wars can still survive on TV, the Manalorian has been quite well received, nevertheless you must concede that things have not gone the way that Disney intended when they released TFA.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    You must realise that after all the underperforming and outright failures at the box office Disney is pulling back on their support for Star Wars.
    What I realize is that the Nile isn't just a river in Egypt, people cling to confirmation bias like security blankets, and that the Internet enables echo chambers. I've been hearing all this for years, and the sky still hasn't fallen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Don't forget that the Boba Fett and Obi-Wan movies were cancelled after Solo bombed. Then you have the Game of Thrones guys bailing on their trilogy, so that's gone as well.
    As I recall, the former was canceled before Solo and the latter became a new Disney+ show. Besides, what we were told is that Disney is moving slowly on spinoff movies, and that's actually a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    While Rian Johnson has stopped talking about his planned trilogy, that's probably canceled...
    You mean the one he's been saying will happen and hasn't been officially canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    ...TROS more or less gave TLJ the middle finger.
    Debatable. Abrams did drop some things (#JusticeForRose), but other stuff builds off of that movie (e.g. everything with Kylo Ren). Other stuff that people point to seems really suspect; they love to point to Luke's coming back and saying he was wrong to exile himself as flipping off TLJ, despite his story arc in TLJ being him learning just that. Imperfect movie, but I think anyone who believes that Abrams was trying to appease the "fans" by undoing TLJ are setting themselves up for disappointment (the man himself specifically stated that he didn't factor in the backlash when making the movie).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Perhaps Star Wars can still survive on TV, the Manalorian has been quite well received...
    So, Disney is pulling away from Star Wars, while creating new streaming content? Which is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    ...nevertheless you must concede that things have not gone the way that Disney intended when they released TFA.
    No plan survives contact with the enemy, so to speak, but with three of their five movies unqualified successes (and one of the two on track to do well) and a promising start to their streaming content, maybe it's not that they're doing badly, but that you just don't like what they're making. Does everything in a franchise need to be specifically for us?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    One of the most unusual feats a film can achieve at the box office is a $100 million drop between Weekend 1 and Weekend 2. And in late 2017, we saw The Last Jedi’s weekend-over-weekend revenue drop from $220 million to just $71.6 million, for a monumental difference of $128.4 million.And now Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker is also on the verge of joining the $100 Million Losers Club as we head into this weekend.To achieve this incredible box office milestone is both a blessing and a curse. Ideally, a film looks to build on its hype and positive reception from opening weekend for a substantial second weekend revenue. Typically, the weekend-over-weekend drop will rest in the 30-35% range. But when a film loses $100 million, that drop is more significant. For The Last Jedi, that drop came in at a nasty 67.5% Then again, a film can only drop $100 million if that first weekend is incredibly lucrative. In order to join the club, a movie would have to pull in around $200 million during its first three days in theaters.
    Here are the current ten films that have joined the $100 Million Losers Club, which is largely dominated by Disney projects:

    Avengers: Endgame - $209.7 million drop
    Star Wars: The Last Jedi - $148.4 million drop
    Avengers: Infinity War - $142.9 million drop
    The Lion King - $115.2 million drop
    Avengers: Age of Ultron - $113.6 million drop
    Captain America: Civil War - $106.5 million drop
    The Avengers - $104.3 million drop
    Incredibles 2 - $102.4 million drop
    Jurassic World - $102.2 million drop
    Iron Man 3 - $101.6 million drop

    Last part of the article

    With all that said—with all the disappointment that could be coming this weekend for the Star Wars franchise—The Rise of Skywalker will still approach $1 billion worldwide by weekend’s end. Its domestic total should reach around $350 million, and its overseas total should continue to skyrocket past its current near-$300-million cume.
    Domestic Day numbers .

    Dec 25 32 million
    Dec 26 30 million

    It was around 572 million world worldwide on 26 and it should pass 600 million when the numbers for the 27 are released.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    You must realise that after all the underperforming and outright failures at the box office Disney is pulling back on their support for Star Wars. Don't forget that the Boba Fett and Obi-Wan movies were cancelled after Solo bombed. Then you have the Game of Thrones guys bailing on their trilogy, so that's gone as well. While Rian Johnson has stopped talking about his planned trilogy, that's probably canceled, TROS more or less gave TLJ the middle finger. Perhaps Star Wars can still survive on TV, the Manalorian has been quite well received, nevertheless you must concede that things have not gone the way that Disney intended when they released TFA.
    The only failure of the Disney Star Wars movies is Solo. And that one never had a chance in hell of being successful.

  10. #40
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    No plan survives contact with the enemy, so to speak, but with three of their five movies unqualified successes (and one of the two on track to do well) and a promising start to their streaming content, maybe it's not that they're doing badly, but that you just don't like what they're making. Does everything in a franchise need to be specifically for us?
    Star Wars was already one of the most beloved franchises on earth, transcending age and gender - all the demographics were already covered. Yet in their arrogance Disney thought that they could do better, alienating the Star Wars fanbase in pursuit of new audiences that never actually existed. China outright rejected Star Wars, 'Solo: A Star Wars Story' had be renamed 'Ranger Solo' to remove all references of the Star War name and the Chinese still didn't watch it, they care even less about TROS now. While the critics Disney courted in the media with TLJ just as easily turned on Star Wars once it became clear that TROS no longer followed the same narrative, fair weather friends indeed. So in the end what we have here is 4 billion dollars (plus production costs) and 7 years wasted only to bring a modern mythology to ruin, that is the entirely forseeable tragedy of Disney's trilogy.

  11. #41
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Why didn't I see this before, the same people who are trying to convince me ROS making less than other star wars movies cannot be seen as a disappointment for Disney are the same people who have told me, Disney has no flaws and are doing just fine with other IPs they have like marvel. I should have known it was bigger than star wars and more about protecting the same company that makes Marvel movies, Pixar and owns lucasfilm with this box office argument that is so pretty obvious.

    What I find hilarious is the Disney marvel movies mostly increased in box office numbers. Disney star wars has decreased, so how can people still be saying Disney star wars is not in danger, when it is not performing in the same length as other Disney IPs like marvel and pixar


    To the people saying there is no proof Disney has hurt star wars, why will bob iger want to now pull back and believe me, he will. After ROS finishes its run at the box office with less box office than rogue one.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 12-28-2019 at 05:52 AM.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    I am going to put in terms some people can understand. Star Wars has underperform with Disney nobody is going to deny that it could be doing better but there is a difference underperforming and being danger. Jeff Bezos got a divorced and loss 38 billion dollars. Losing 38 BILLION sucks does that mean Jeff Bezos is in trouble. No Jeff Bezos is the second richest man in the world he is not in danger. People don't have context when they are talking about Star Wars is struggling for "Star Wars" but it is not a true struggle. The films had potential make 2 billion but they are only making "1 Billion plus"

    There is a certain dishonesty in talking about this topic with certain people. The first thing is the second trilogy did real damage to the franchise so pretending that Disney got the franchise without certain issues is misleading. The second thing is we are literally talking about TWO bad movie, Force Awakens did amazingly for the movie and merchandising, So people are implying that Disney destroyed the franchise by making TWO bad movies(and refer to point one even current haters don't list TLJ as the worst star wars movie ). Then perspective for proper perspective one of the "BAD" movie the movie is the 13 highest grossing movie of all time and it was once the 9th highest grossing movie. The other is Han Solo which was hot mess and rightful should be criticized.

    Anyways no doubt Star Wars isn't performing the way Disney wanted they thought they had another Marvel, They would be able to put out movies at the same rate they do with Marvel. They learned the lesson Star Wars needs time to cook and there is a thing as too much Star Wars. Pretending that Star Wars is mortal danger when every movie other than Solo is going to make a billion dollars and Malandorian is literally on fire with fan base who supposedly hates Star Wars now is silly. Disney learned lesson they need to learn, you won't see a Star Wars movie every year(You might see a show every year tho) they learned that movies need a period to rest so to speak.

    I am not going to waste anymore time on this I am not going pretend that tomorrow Disney couldn't announce Boba Fett, Darth Maul, Darth Vader solo movies and Knights of Old Republic trilogy and fanboys wouldn't be going nuts. The franchise is not shambles. What is happening is like The New England Patriots didn't win the Superbowl but made the conference finals couple years in a row and loss. People are in here pretending like Star Wars went 1-15 and missed the playoffs. Instead they missed making it to Superbowl they are some real issue but they are fixable. Oh nos Star Wars is only making billion per movie. It is shame that Star Wars is stuck with JJ abrams and Rian Johnson forever does not have any successful directors like Jon Favreau,Dave Filoni,Taika Waititi, Bryce Dallas Howard, Rick Famuyiwa,etc in the fold because of a really successful show.Star War is doomed.

    I am not going back and forth with people believe what you want to believe but these people are same people who swore that TROS wouldn't sniff near 1 billion and when it does hit billion you will hear Disney conspiracies start to get spin and downplaying of the achievement
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 12-28-2019 at 06:42 AM.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Star Wars was already one of the most beloved franchises on earth, transcending age and gender - all the demographics were already covered.
    Uh huh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Yet in their arrogance Disney thought that they could do better, alienating the Star Wars fanbase in pursuit of new audiences that never actually existed.
    The majority of people at LucasFilm making the movies and stuff were already working for the company and some had even pitched in on stuff under George Lucas himself. So, no arrogance involved. As far as getting new fans, that is the smartest thing they could've done. As far as them failing, we'll know in a decade or so how that panned out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    China outright rejected Star Wars, 'Solo: A Star Wars Story' had be renamed 'Ranger Solo' to remove all references of the Star War name and the Chinese still didn't watch it, they care even less about TROS now.
    Star Wars has never been big in China and Solo is arguably the weakest of the Disney installments. That's all is to be expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    While the critics Disney courted in the media with TLJ just as easily turned on Star Wars once it became clear that TROS no longer followed the same narrative, fair weather friends indeed.
    The critics aren't the company's "friends," they just give their opinions on the film. While I think that TROS was better then its professional reception indicates, I will freely concede that I think the previous two were better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    So in the end what we have here is 4 billion dollars (plus production costs) and 7 years wasted only to bring a modern mythology to ruin, that is the entirely forseeable tragedy of Disney's trilogy.
    Under Disney, LucasFilm brought the franchise back into the mainstream, made some of the best films in the series, has had an impressive track record of success vs. failure, and has quite the blank slate to play with in the future. Star Wars will endure and has every chance of thriving more then it already has or has not.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member basbash99's Avatar
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    Another $26 mil on Friday so about $598 million total.

    Killerbee, you're fighting the good fight here but i think its pointless. When it does hit a billion, the new argument will be that it's only because there wasn't any competition for the first few weeks it was out.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Forbes to today said TROS crossed 500 million Worldwide. So halfway towards a billion even before this weekend .
    That tells me right there that this is just going to be another "Captain Marvel" or "Last Jedi" thread with people who don't like the movie insisting it's really not that popular when it's made half a billion in less than the first week.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

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