Question About Classic Doctor Strange?

[7-Love]

Which specific comic book issue # was the last appearance of Classic Doctor Strange?

[Grapeweasel]

Strange Tales #146.

[DrNewGod]

Strange Tales #146.

Yup. Grapeweasel is correct. There was Ditko's Dr. Strange, and then a long list of charictures, some of which were better than others.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yup. Grapeweasel is correct. There was Ditko's Dr. Strange, and then a long list of charictures, some of which were better than others.

I like Roger Stern's run on him, but I see your point.

Kinda wild that the greatest run on Doctor Strange never happened in his own ongoing.

I always felt Strange had all that you needed to be an ongoing -- he's a cool character, he has a decent supporting cast (Clea, Wong, and later you had Blade for a time), one of the better Non-Spidey rogues -- and yet he's never been able to make it.

[Sutekh]

I always felt Strange had all that you needed to be an ongoing -- he's a cool character, he has a decent supporting cast (Clea, Wong, and later you had Blade for a time), one of the better Non-Spidey rogues -- and yet he's never been able to make it.

Part of the label 'Sorcerer Supreme' kind of automatically sets him at a different level.

It would make sense for their to be an actual organizational structure below the Sorcerer Supreme, various witches and warlocks and sorcerers and magical hybrid folk, like the community in New Salem, or Dakim the Enchanter, Scarlet Witch, Doctor Voodoo, Shaman, Hellstrom, Dr. Druid, Agatha Harkness, Victor Von Doom, etc. scattered all over the planet, keeping eye out for local mystical shenanigans, and coordinating with each other (or sending each other heads up, whenever they get some mystical hint of trouble brewing in someone else's backyard, and maybe leading to some unusual team ups from time to time).

Strange himself would necessarily respond to *every* situation (nor would he be expected to), but would keep the network going. It wouldn't just be one overworked dude sitting in his StrangeCave, waiting for the StrangePhone to go off and alert him that evil's afoot.

When Strange shows up, it should be major. Shuma-Gorath or Dormammu or Galactus just set down in Central Park, sorts of affairs. 616 Earth is *crawling* with mage-types like Jennifer Kale or Billy Kaplan or Ilyanna Rasputin (and supernatural adventurers like Blade and Elsa Bloodstone, and critters like Man-Thing and Werewolf by Night and Ghost Rider) who can handle the light work.

[Reviresco]

I like Roger Stern's run on him, but I see your point.

Kinda wild that the greatest run on Doctor Strange never happened in his own ongoing.

I always felt Strange had all that you needed to be an ongoing -- he's a cool character, he has a decent supporting cast (Clea, Wong, and later you had Blade for a time), one of the better Non-Spidey rogues -- and yet he's never been able to make it.

I don't know why people keep saying this, it's simply not true. Doctor Strange had book for almost 34 years straight. Not many Marvel characters can say that. Granted, he didn't have a book from 1996 through the movie push, but I think that was more of an editorial bias, i.e. Quesada pushing his own favorites.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I don't know why people keep saying this, it's simply not true. Doctor Strange had book for almost 34 years straight. Not many Marvel characters can say that. Granted, he didn't have a book from 1996 through the movie push, but I think that was more of an editorial bias, i.e. Quesada pushing his own favorites.

That's my point. He didn't get the push out of the gate that Iron Man did, even if Iron Man is weaker than Strange in a lot of essential ways (not as many great stories, not as cool a rogues gallery, or supporting cast). Ditko's run on Strange Tales should have been expanded to an ongoing but despite being far and away his most personal and ambitious work at Marvel but he never got to do that. It took him till the early-mid '70s for his first title (under Englehart I believe) to be launched. Look at the support John Constantine got in DC Vertigo from the '80s to the early 2000s. He was a character created by Alan Moore and quickly broke big and got a lot of support from DC to the point that he's now a pretty prominent character for DC/WB. If not for the Derrickson film, and the failure of the Keanu adaptation, Constantine might well have become the premier magician character in superhero stories.

[DrNewGod]

IMO, what almost no other writer got about Ditko's Strange, is that he operates on some planes with greater power than others. He wasn't supposed to be more powerful than Iron Man in the mundane world. In dimensions of the mind, or other mystic realms? Completely different story.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

IMO, what almost no other writer got about Ditko's Strange, is that he operates on some planes with greater power than others. He wasn't supposed to be more powerful than Iron Man in the mundane world. In dimensions of the mind, or other mystic realms? Completely different story.

Exactly. Ditko's Doctor Strange has more in common with (and directly influenced) DC's VERTIGO series -- Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, The Sandman -- than anything Marvel put out in the '60s. It was too revolutionary and ahead of its time, made for the superhero genre of the late 80s and 90s.

[K7P5V]

Many won't agree, but I've always been partial towards the Gene Colan version...

[Alphaxman]

As someone who hasn't read Ditko's Dr Strange, (tragic, I know) what made him so different than his later appearances? I have Roger Stern and Paul Smith's run (liked it) and a few runs over the years, but none have made a lasting impression.
I hate the current snarky Strange, starting with the MCU and Aaron's horrible run.

[Digifiend]

Many won't agree, but I've always been partial towards the Gene Colan version...

Why would Stephen suddenly decide he needs a mask? He's never had a secret identity (Strange is his real name) and originally, and later, didn't have one. So why did he then?

[Englehart Humperdinck]

I don't know why people keep saying this, it's simply not true. Doctor Strange had book for almost 34 years straight. Not many Marvel characters can say that. Granted, he didn't have a book from 1996 through the movie push, but I think that was more of an editorial bias, i.e. Quesada pushing his own favorites.

He didn't have a book between the cancellation of Doctor Strange volume 1 at #183 (cover date November 1969) andl his return and the launch of the Defenders in Marvel Feature #1 (Cover date December 1971). His solo stories started again in Marvel Premiere #3 (July 72), which led to Doctor Strange volume 2 (June 74).

[DrNewGod]

As someone who hasn't read Ditko's Dr Strange, (tragic, I know) what made him so different than his later appearances? I have Roger Stern and Paul Smith's run (liked it) and a few runs over the years, but none have made a lasting impression.
I hate the current snarky Strange, starting with the MCU and Aaron's horrible run.

Especially in his early appearances, Ditko's Dr. Strange didn't manifest much in the way of ability to influence the physical world. Especially the first couple of appearances, his magic seemed more about telepathy. When he entered other planes, however, he tended to show a wider range of abilities. Ditko was never explicit about it, but I took from it a sense that some of these planes were intersections between where the thoughts of living beings from multiple dimensions intersected, and so Strange's ability to recognize the environments for what they were, gave him much greater ability to manipulate the environment. What was more explicit in Ditko's Strange was that if an entity was mystical in nature, he was able to influence it with much greater effect than mundane entities.

It also helped that Ditko put Dr. Strange through a long, progressive arc where his powers grew and developed. At first, Baron Mordo was allegedly the more powerful mystic, but over a clear journey, Dr. Strange outgrew him.

After Ditko left was when you saw Strange beginning to pull stuff like conjure items out of thin air, and able to repel Thor from his home (whereas before, Loki had spanked him like a child).

[MRP]

That's my point. He didn't get the push out of the gate that Iron Man did, even if Iron Man is weaker than Strange in a lot of essential ways (not as many great stories, not as cool a rogues gallery, or supporting cast). Ditko's run on Strange Tales should have been expanded to an ongoing but despite being far and away his most personal and ambitious work at Marvel but he never got to do that. It took him till the early-mid '70s for his first title (under Englehart I believe) to be launched. Look at the support John Constantine got in DC Vertigo from the '80s to the early 2000s. He was a character created by Alan Moore and quickly broke big and got a lot of support from DC to the point that he's now a pretty prominent character for DC/WB. If not for the Derrickson film, and the failure of the Keanu adaptation, Constantine might well have become the premier magician character in superhero stories.

When Doc was in Strange Tales, none of the following had their own book either-Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Giant-Man. Sub-Mariner, Nick Fury-because Marvel was limited to the number of books they could publish each month because of their distribution deal through Dc. When the distribution deal ended and they could put out more books, all of the split books ended. This was in 1968. Tales of Suspense which had both Cap and Iron Man ended with #99, Cap started with #100 Iron Man got a one-shot split book with Namor (Iron-Man Sub-Mariner) and then got a #1. Tales to Astonish ended with #101, Hulk started with #102, and Namor got a #1 the month after the Iron Man split book. Strange Tales ended with #168. Doctor Strange started with #169, Nick Fur started with #1.

It was common practice for books to keep numbering because a) number ones were riskier (I know strange to think of considering the current practices with #1 issues) and postal rates for mail subscriptions (which were a big part of circulation at the time) were more expensive for new periodicals than they were for established ones (periodicals had to have published a certain number of issues before they qualified for second class postage). So what was considered the bigger draw in each split book kept the numbering and the other characters got the #1 issues.

Doc's solo ran from 169 to 183, but sales were not strong. This was despite Doc being a huge favorite of the late 60s counter culture (even making an appearance on a Pink Floyd album cover from their more psychedelic era and being featured in event posters for many counter-culture events). They attempted to boost sales with the more super-hero looking masked Doc Strange but didn't work either, and in 183 the series ended and Doc kicked around as a gust star in a couple f books before they had Doc retiring and giving up his powers. In Marvel Feature #1, which featured the debut of the Defenders, there was a back up telling how Doc got his mojo back. Shortly thereafter he got another tryout as a solo feature in Marvel Premiere with a Stan Lee Barry Windsor-Smith debut and then a rotating creative crew with the likes of Gardner Fox, Jim Starlin and others chipping in until the Englehart/Brunner established themselves. It ran from Marvel Premiere #3 until #14, most of which appeared bi-monthly so nearly 2 years, before graduating into his own series again in '74.

There was no way the Ditko run was going to spawn it's own book-Marvel was limited to 8 books a month so was stuck in split book hell. It had nothing to do with the company supporting other characters over Doc. As soon as they were able to give Doc a solo title they did, in '68 but it just didn't sell well enough to keep going. They did everything they could to keep Doc in the spotlight and get him another title through the late 60s and early 70s. His '74 series ran 81 issues, mostly bi-monthly as sales weren't high enough to warrant monthly status, but they kept pushing it. By the end of the run sales had slipped to the point where he was near cancellation levels so they tried the split book again with a second volume of Strange Tales with Cloak and Dagger as the co-feature this time. That ran for 19 issues and sales picked up enough again the tried giving each feature it's own book again. Cloak and Dagger's series was short-lived, but Doc's series lasted another 90 or so issues before getting cancelled. Doc was one of the characters given to Quesada and Palmiotti's Marvel Knight imprint to try to breathe some life into. Doc got a four issue mini (Flight of Bones) with some known creators, Tony Harris riding his success on Starman was featured, but quit halfway through and Paul Chadwick (of Concrete fame) finished. It was among the lowest selling of the Marvel Knights efforts. He got another shot a few years later at the height of Straczynski's run at Marvel, he did a 6 issue Strange mini to test the market for a new solo book, getting a prominent guest role in the Spidey book to prime the pump. Sales weren't there. Brain K. Vaughan and Mark Waid each did minis as well to test the market. Sales weren't enough to justify an ongoing. n animated movie (largely based on the Straczynski mini's revamps) did nothing to raise Doc's profile either.

The lack of an ongoing solo book was not form lack of effort or support from the publisher. Attempts to push the character were made repeatedly. Customers never responded in large enough numbers for it to catch on. Even with the MCU feature push, and the most recent spate of efforts to keep Doc in a solo book, sales haven't been great. Doc's my favorite Marvel character and the Ditko/Lee run is probably my favorite Marvel run of all time, but it's obvious my tastes haven't matched those of the larger comic buying audiences over the years because Doc has never caught on with them in a big way despite the pushes he got from Marvel, not because of a lack of such pushes.

Doc has been pushed almost every time Marvel tried expanding into other media too. When they did a series of prose novels in the 70s-Doc got one. When CBS did a number of TV movies and series featuring Marvel characters in the 70s, Doc had the Peter Hooten TV movie. When Marvel was pushing animated series in the 90s, Doc was featured as a guest in several different series. When Marvel did several animated features pre-MCU Doc got one. And of course Doc is in the MCU. He's also been pushed in Marvel merchandise since the late 60s blacklight postcards and posters in the late 60s to try to capture his popularity with the counter-culture, Ben Cooper jigglers and Halloween costumes in the 70s, a Doc Strange calendar in the 70s (when they usually did Marvel as a whole, they did a Doc only calendar one year), action figures form the 90s onwards, etc. etc.

There's been plenty of effort from Marvel to push the character over the years. It's not been form lack of effort by Marvel over the years thatDoc hadn't caught on with a larger audience.

-M