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  1. #31
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    All this definitely looks 100x more interesting than the Whedon version. But is there a reason why Zack Snyder and WB decided to jump to Darkseid and skip all the other classic Justice League villains? This always bothered me.
    Last edited by LifeIsILL; 02-29-2020 at 08:49 PM.

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member Wandering_Wand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    All this definitely looks 100x more interesting than the Whedon version. But is there a reason why Zack Snyder and WB decided to jump to Darkseid and skip all the other classic Justice League villains? This always bothered me.
    Great question.

    What we know from people who've worked with him and from what information Snyder himself has revealed is that he was given nearly complete creative control sometime before or after Man of Steel to develop a "universe" to compete against Disney's MCU. This is where plans were developed by him and his team to go for the Final Crisis storyline via 5 films - Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Justice League Part I, Justice League Part II, and then an untitled fifth and concluding film that also served as Superman's storyline being fulfilled. Meanwhile, all the other characters were going to have their solo spin offs threading out from these 5 films. The problems arose when critical reception to BvS dropped and the film didn't make more than the fabled $1 billion, and that's when WB decided to rein Snyder in and they told him to bring his Justice League plans in to just a singular movie. This is where a lot has become muddled in this whole saga that is the Snyder Cut.

    As to why Zack and his team decided to go with the Final Crisis route instead of setting up what many may label as "more traditional plans," we may never know now. But his intention was to go for the New Gods in this 5 film arc and end with DC's biggest baddie in Darkseid.

    Maybe he thought some of the other villains would show up in solo or other team up movies, or maybe they were never on his radar to begin with. It's a question he's maybe been asked before, but it's escaped my realm. If he hasn't, then I definitely think someone should ask exactly what you did because it's something that could be discussed in a very healthy way.

  3. #33
    Fantastic Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Wand View Post
    Great question.

    What we know from people who've worked with him and from what information Snyder himself has revealed is that he was given nearly complete creative control sometime before or after Man of Steel to develop a "universe" to compete against Disney's MCU. This is where plans were developed by him and his team to go for the Final Crisis storyline via 5 films - Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Justice League Part I, Justice League Part II, and then an untitled fifth and concluding film that also served as Superman's storyline being fulfilled. Meanwhile, all the other characters were going to have their solo spin offs threading out from these 5 films. The problems arose when critical reception to BvS dropped and the film didn't make more than the fabled $1 billion, and that's when WB decided to rein Snyder in and they told him to bring his Justice League plans in to just a singular movie. This is where a lot has become muddled in this whole saga that is the Snyder Cut.

    As to why Zack and his team decided to go with the Final Crisis route instead of setting up what many may label as "more traditional plans," we may never know now. But his intention was to go for the New Gods in this 5 film arc and end with DC's biggest baddie in Darkseid.

    Maybe he thought some of the other villains would show up in solo or other team up movies, or maybe they were never on his radar to begin with. It's a question he's maybe been asked before, but it's escaped my realm. If he hasn't, then I definitely think someone should ask exactly what you did because it's something that could be discussed in a very healthy way.
    The fact that Syder decided to jam The Dark Knight Returns and The Death of Superman along with additional plot points really demonstrates he had no clue what he was doing.

    The death, funeral for a friend, reign of supermen and return of superman could have been an awesome stand alone trilogy...

    Why tack on such an epic moment In comics to the end of BVS???

    Sad to cause 300 and Watchmen are decent comic bookie movies compared to his bvs and justice league efforts

  4. #34
    Fantastic Member The_Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    The fact that Syder decided to jam The Dark Knight Returns and The Death of Superman along with additional plot points really demonstrates he had no clue what he was doing.

    The death, funeral for a friend, reign of supermen and return of superman could have been an awesome stand alone trilogy...

    Why tack on such an epic moment In comics to the end of BVS???

    Sad to cause 300 and Watchmen are decent comic bookie movies compared to his bvs and justice league efforts
    Just guessing; Zack was so involved and had his head so full of stuff planned, done but not shown and whatnot that he completely forgot that so far only one Supes film had been out. All of BvS as it had been could have worked so far better if it actually had been the third movie. With the second also be a Supes movie; preferably a lighter one but one that had some of the stuff happening in BvS already set up to a degree in the background and/or introduced some of the characters that appear later on.

    Keeping WW a surprise and having a less spoilerish "here is a trailer that explains the whole movie" marketing would have helped too.

    Oh well; wudda, cudda, shuddda. As long as they don't get their Feige with an equal dedication to DC as he (at least apparently) has for Marvel and equip him or her with the authority to do the source material justice and the ability to bring it all together they will keep stumbling along.

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I thought it was revealed that WB mandated BvS to fast-track Justice League where Snyder was originally planning on just making a Batman movie and MoS2?

  6. #36
    Fantastic Member Wandering_Wand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I thought it was revealed that WB mandated BvS to fast-track Justice League where Snyder was originally planning on just making a Batman movie and MoS2?
    I've been thinking about this for a few mins before responding trying to see if anything in mind would come up. I think there was a rumor that Zack wanted to keep things simple but WB insisted he create a fully "shared" universe and that did lead to a fast track of things.
    What makes me recall something about this is Zack shared some early concept art of Metallo that I think he said he was reserving for MoS2. I think after MoS didn't immediately make a billion after TDK and TDKR, WB basically coerced him into bringing in other heavy hitters far sooner.

    I can't recall exact details because this is from probably 2015ish, but I think there may be something to this…

    I think there's a big point here to be made that it's so easy for anti-Snyder folks to blame EVERYTHING on him, but WB meddled quite a bit in all of his movies. Some is to be expected considering the investments they made, but you either want director driven films, or you don't.

  7. #37
    Fantastic Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Wand View Post
    I've been thinking about this for a few mins before responding trying to see if anything in mind would come up. I think there was a rumor that Zack wanted to keep things simple but WB insisted he create a fully "shared" universe and that did lead to a fast track of things.
    What makes me recall something about this is Zack shared some early concept art of Metallo that I think he said he was reserving for MoS2. I think after MoS didn't immediately make a billion after TDK and TDKR, WB basically coerced him into bringing in other heavy hitters far sooner.

    I can't recall exact details because this is from probably 2015ish, but I think there may be something to this…

    I think there's a big point here to be made that it's so easy for anti-Snyder folks to blame EVERYTHING on him, but WB meddled quite a bit in all of his movies. Some is to be expected considering the investments they made, but you either want director driven films, or you don't.
    Mos isnt a good Superman movie though... its box office and general fan reaction reinforces this

    But everyone has there own tastes

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Wand View Post
    The problems arose when critical reception to BvS dropped and the film didn't make more than the fabled $1 billion, and that's when WB decided to rein Snyder in and they told him to bring his Justice League plans in to just a singular movie. This is where a lot has become muddled in this whole saga that is the Snyder Cut.
    I’ve also heard that it wasn’t just the total dollars that was causing heart-burn at WB, but the fact that BvS flatlined at the box office.
    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Ba...tab=box-office
    Last edited by Iopy; 03-01-2020 at 01:21 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Mos isnt a good Superman movie though... its box office and general fan reaction reinforces this

    But everyone has there own tastes
    668 million is nothing to dismiss. And the fan reaction was divisive but it people still liked it.

  10. #40
    Incredible Member Thomas Crown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    668 million is nothing to dismiss. And the fan reaction was divisive but it people still liked it.
    I think it's funny how MoS was deemed a financially successful movie that got a divisive reception at the time of its release, but now people try to push a narrative of it being "a box office flop that nobody liked".

    And I would like to remind everyone that MoS was a "fresh" movie until Rotten Tomatoes "coincidentally" added a few more negative reviews AFTER BvS was released.
    Last edited by Thomas Crown; 03-02-2020 at 11:03 AM.
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  11. #41
    Fantastic Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Crown View Post
    I think it's funny how MoS was deemed a financially successful movie that got a divisive reception at the time of its release, but now people try to push a narrative of it being "a box office flop that nobody liked".

    And I would like to remind everyone that MoS was a "fresh" movie until Rotten Tomatoes "coincidentally" added a few more negative reviews AFTER BvS was released.
    Maybe box office flop isnt the exact right phrasing...

    Batman Returns was a financial success and easily my favourite batman movie along side batman 89, bvs, and batman forever...

    Keaton and ben are easily my Batman of the live action

    Batman returns still was considered divisive and in some ways a flop as it wasnt kid and family friendly... ie they couldnt sell toys... tim burton was politely asked to step aside

    Any case you can like mos and it obviously did well enough to give us bvs and justice league... I'm a huge superman fan I just find the movies dont portray him as I see him... batman seems to work better on film.

    Synder wanted to portray superman colder and more god like and I'm used to reading him more of just a normal guy who in his teens discovered he was an alien with crazy powers... I'd love to see him portrayed with more personality... less stiff

    I'm actually a fan of bvs and justice league at least in part.

    I prefer Snyders efforts and ben over nolan and bale...

    Problem is synder just tended to have hugely misguided aspects to his project that muddy up the good parts.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Maybe box office flop isnt the exact right phrasing...

    Batman Returns was a financial success and easily my favourite batman movie along side batman 89, bvs, and batman forever...

    Keaton and ben are easily my Batman of the live action

    Batman returns still was considered divisive and in some ways a flop as it wasnt kid and family friendly... ie they couldnt sell toys... tim burton was politely asked to step aside

    Any case you can like mos and it obviously did well enough to give us bvs and justice league... I'm a huge superman fan I just find the movies dont portray him as I see him... batman seems to work better on film.

    Synder wanted to portray superman colder and more god like and I'm used to reading him more of just a normal guy who in his teens discovered he was an alien with crazy powers... I'd love to see him portrayed with more personality... less stiff

    I'm actually a fan of bvs and justice league at least in part.

    I prefer Snyders efforts and ben over nolan and bale...

    Problem is synder just tended to have hugely misguided aspects to his project that muddy up the good parts.
    If Snyder wanted to make Superman more god like he'd have depicted him as he was in All Star Superman. Clark's far more human and vulnerable in MoS and BvS than he is in any other film besides the brief moment he was depowered in Superman 2.

  13. #43
    Fantastic Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If Snyder wanted to make Superman more god like he'd have depicted him as he was in All Star Superman. Clark's far more human and vulnerable in MoS and BvS than he is in any other film besides the brief moment he was depowered in Superman 2.
    Well I hate christian bales performance as batman.. I could break down for you why, i just think it's the poorest on screen performance for bruce or batman....

    Henry as superman just comes off to stiff for my liking... I just want a more bright and fun superman... and over 3 films he is portrayed as pretty brooding, frequently angry, etc... granted maybe it's all suits the films...

    Most cases live action cant compete with the comics..

    Tho I do remember as a kid loving the animated superman Saturday morning cartoon..

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Well I hate christian bales performance as batman.. I could break down for you why, i just think it's the poorest on screen performance for bruce or batman....

    Henry as superman just comes off to stiff for my liking... I just want a more bright and fun superman... and over 3 films he is portrayed as pretty brooding, frequently angry, etc... granted maybe it's all suits the films...

    Most cases live action cant compete with the comics..

    Tho I do remember as a kid loving the animated superman Saturday morning cartoon..
    He loses his temper a grand total of twice in the movies. And the "brooding" is mostly just being neutral in expression. Just because you aren't smiling and laughing all the time doesn't mean you;re dying inside. Believe it or not, there is a middle ground.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Wand View Post
    I think there's a big point here to be made that it's so easy for anti-Snyder folks to blame EVERYTHING on him, but WB meddled quite a bit in all of his movies. Some is to be expected considering the investments they made, but you either want director driven films, or you don't.
    I wouldn't blame this on WB entirely. The reason for the meddling was because what Snyder was doing wasn't good, and wasn't performing well financially. People can say what they want about Man of Steel's box office, but when your competition is taking C level heroes like Iron Man, knocking it out the park with them, and showing you up, despite you having the most famous superhero in the world, it's going to make you think at least a little...

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