Zack snyder's justice league - appreciation

[Agent Z]

God, I always wondered how Snyder managed to attract so many overzealous and venomous haters. I mean, many films are disliked. Only those with a kind of Snyder Derangement Syndrome act as if it's worst cinema ever made.

At this rate the people who hate the Snyder films are just as if not more obsessed with them than those that defend them.

[Wandering_Wand]

For those folks coming in here looking for a fight, or insisting an alternate cut doesn't exist (you're totally wrong), or just wanting to crap on Snyder and those of us wanting this cut, PLEASE LEAVE AND DO NOT COME BACK.

It's not an order, because I'm not a mod, but it's a polite request. Go and read the first post of this thread, please.
I will request that the mods get involved if necessary. The purpose of this thread is to keep the people interested in the Snyder cut here and away from all of the people screaming at us to leave.

Sure enough we go build our own sandbox away from everyone else and naysayers and haters still come over and kick sand in our faces. Just leave, please.

And to everyone else, please don't let some of these folks shut down our conversations. We did what we were asked in taking our conversation elsewhere and we're going to keep at it. The Snyder Cut is a real thing, the evidence is undeniable. It's a possibility it'll still happen, we're just waiting for something definitive one way or another at this point telling us otherwise.

[Wandering_Wand]

I’m mostly only rooting for this to happen because I think the passion and support from the cast and crew is genuinely admirable. Plus while I think BvS was terrible, the extended edition was an improvement. It still sucked but it was better. Plus it’s hard to see anything be worse than Cavill’s cgi face. Still not expecting a good movie (could be blown away but doubt it) but I can see it going from bad to passable.

You know, this is a completely reasonable take that I wish more people would understand and take up themselves.
Thanks for your thoughts.

A release of snydercut hbo max would be instant buzz for these guys.the fights between anti and pro snyder crowds will be glorious.

This is funny, we needed to lighten up this recent conversation so thank you.

God, I always wondered how Snyder managed to attract so many overzealous and venomous haters. I mean, many films are disliked. Only those with a kind of Snyder Derangement Syndrome act as if it's worst cinema ever made.

Funny how it works, isn't it? I think the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut crowd needs to be good ambassadors and I've seen several examples of how some people in the movement are not.
But the detractors and haters are arguably just as bad, if not worse in most cases based upon my direct experiences.

[adamTPTK]

When we talk about Snyder cut, which one is that? The one that was originally planned in the very beginning? Because JL being a self contained product was pretty much a reactionary mandate after BvS was released which had changed the approach. It's where the ancient attack on Earth was changed from having young Darkseid to Steppenwolf. What else changed? How different would i still be?

I also wonder if Ayer planned on having Steppenwolf himself, how could Snyder take Wolf away from him? Was there also a kind of power dynamics?

To me the failure of DCEU is summarized in 3 aspects:
1. Not establishing a studio dedicated to development and planning of the DCEU.
2. Trying to repeat the Marvel trope be all means.
3. Not focusing on the fandom that it already got.

[Adekis]

When we talk about Snyder cut, which one is that? The one that was originally planned in the very beginning? Because JL being a self contained product was pretty much a reactionary mandate after BvS was released which had changed the approach. It's where the ancient attack on Earth was changed from having young Darkseid to Steppenwolf. What else changed? How different would i still be?

No, when people talk about the Snyder Cut I believe they mostly mean the version of the movie that Zack Snyder actually worked on, which exists in a near-complete state and was abandoned when he left the movie due to family tragedy, and not the movie that he would have made if his "Masterplan" had come to fruition.

I mean we know there's things he wanted to do that never happened, most infamously the fact that Snyder was going to have Darkseid kill Lois Lane. Frankly, I despise the idea, and it was kind of at the center of his whole Masterplan. So while I love Man of Steel, Batman v. Superman, and really want to see the Snyder Cut of Justice League, I can never be fully gung ho about the Masterplan like I was before I learned it killed Lois - even if it brought her back later.

The Snyder Cut itself may well see release. Multiple insiders have claimed to have seen it, and there's obviously a huge push for its release among the fan community, to say nothing of all the money raised for suicide prevention! Snyder's Masterplan will never be released, barring either ludicrously unlikely circumstances, or else maybe something like a comic adaptation, which might be infinitely more likely, but still seems pretty much unlikely to me.

[manwhohaseverything]

No, when people talk about the Snyder Cut I believe they mostly mean the version of the movie that Zack Snyder actually worked on, which exists in a near-complete state and was abandoned when he left the movie due to family tragedy, and not the movie that he would have made if his "Masterplan" had come to fruition.

I mean we know there's things he wanted to do that never happened, most infamously the fact that Snyder was going to have Darkseid kill Lois Lane. Frankly, I despise the idea, and it was kind of at the center of his whole Masterplan. So while I love Man of Steel, Batman v. Superman, and really want to see the Snyder Cut of Justice League, I can never be fully gung ho about the Masterplan like I was before I learned it killed Lois - even if it brought her back later.

The Snyder Cut itself may well see release. Multiple insiders have claimed to have seen it, and there's obviously a huge push for its release among the fan community, to say nothing of all the money raised for suicide prevention! Snyder's Masterplan will never be released, barring either ludicrously unlikely circumstances, or else maybe something like a comic adaptation, which might be infinitely more likely, but still seems pretty much unlikely to me.

They gotta do the temptation thing with superman. I mean, timm "killed" wally for superman to go crazy. Its just messianic thing that's been shoved into the character. But, atleast snyder might do a subversion. (i hope. I am right)

[Cyberstrike]

For those folks coming in here looking for a fight, or insisting an alternate cut doesn't exist (you're totally wrong), or just wanting to crap on Snyder and those of us wanting this cut, PLEASE LEAVE AND DO NOT COME BACK.

Good luck with that.

[Clark_Kent]

I think it's absurd at this point to say "it doesn't exist." Snyder himself has shown pictures of the reels, and it would be utter career suicide for him to lie about such a thing. His fans would never forgive him or support him afterwards, so it's a real thing.

Considering the vfx needed to round out his cut is rumored to be in the $20-$30 million range, I think it'd be good business for WB to throw the cash at it and wrap it up. WW84 is not going to make the August release date, I think it's just foolish to believe otherwise. Thus, with no other superhero films releasing this year (I don't see Black Widow making 2020 either), tossing $20 million at the only superhero blockbuster in town kills many birds with a single stone:

• Only blockbuster superhero film down the 2020 stretch
• A media bonanza for your new streaming service
• The DCEU has already moved on, so you're not undermining anything

Seems like a win/win. The Snydercut fans get satisfied and we then shut up about it, the Snyder haters get something to bitch about, and everyone in the middle gets to see new content featuring some of their favorite DC characters. This would be no different than alternate cuts of other films that have been released over the years...Blade Runner is a famous example. Oliver Stone released a few cuts of "Alexander". "Exorcist: The Beginning" famously had a JL situation where the studio wasn't happy with the film, so they ordered the entire thing to be re-cast & re-shot. After the film failed, the original version was eventually released. And, of course, there was the Donner Cut of Superman II. Releasing "Zack Snyder's Justice League" wouldn't be unheard of, or anything new. Audiences are fairly used to this now.

Release it on your streaming service and drive subs. Even the haters will sign up to watch it, just so they have fuel for their e-penis arguments.

[Lightning Rider]

I think it's absurd at this point to say "it doesn't exist." Snyder himself has shown pictures of the reels, and it would be utter career suicide for him to lie about such a thing. His fans would never forgive him or support him afterwards, so it's a real thing.

Considering the vfx needed to round out his cut is rumored to be in the $20-$30 million range, I think it'd be good business for WB to throw the cash at it and wrap it up. WW84 is not going to make the August release date, I think it's just foolish to believe otherwise. Thus, with no other superhero films releasing this year (I don't see Black Widow making 2020 either), tossing $20 million at the only superhero blockbuster in town kills many birds with a single stone:

• Only blockbuster superhero film down the 2020 stretch
• A media bonanza for your new streaming service
• The DCEU has already moved on, so you're not undermining anything

Seems like a win/win. The Snydercut fans get satisfied and we then shut up about it, the Snyder haters get something to bitch about, and everyone in the middle gets to see new content featuring some of their favorite DC characters. This would be no different than alternate cuts of other films that have been released over the years...Blade Runner is a famous example. Oliver Stone released a few cuts of "Alexander". "Exorcist: The Beginning" famously had a JL situation where the studio wasn't happy with the film, so they ordered the entire thing to be re-cast & re-shot. After the film failed, the original version was eventually released. And, of course, there was the Donner Cut of Superman II. Releasing "Zack Snyder's Justice League" wouldn't be unheard of, or anything new. Audiences are fairly used to this now.

Release it on your streaming service and drive subs. Even the haters will sign up to watch it, just so they have fuel for their e-penis arguments.

Good post. I'd add that in this day and age, fan edits would likely improve on and elevate any unfinished elements of the film that remain mediocre production-wise.

[Osiris-Rex]

For those folks coming in here looking for a fight, or insisting an alternate cut doesn't exist (you're totally wrong), or just wanting to crap on Snyder and those of us wanting this cut, PLEASE LEAVE AND DO NOT COME BACK.

It's not an order, because I'm not a mod, but it's a polite request. Go and read the first post of this thread, please.
I will request that the mods get involved if necessary. The purpose of this thread is to keep the people interested in the Snyder cut here and away from all of the people screaming at us to leave.

If you wanted that you should have titled the thread Snyder Cut Appreciation. By labeling it Discussion the implication is you want to discuss it. Which entails both positive and negative comments.
It's not really a discussion if all you want is cheerleaders for the Snyder Cut. Not sure what basis the mods would have just because people are making comments you don't agree with as long as they
are polite and not making personal attacks.

[Clark_Kent]

Good post. I'd add that in this day and age, fan edits would likely improve on and elevate any unfinished elements of the film that remain mediocre production-wise.

This is an extremely good point. WB could technically toss it out there without putting a single penny on it, and some of these guys would work some magic in no time.

[Adekis]

This is an extremely good point. WB could technically toss it out there without putting a single penny on it, and some of these guys would work some magic in no time.

That's true of course, but the vast majority of viewers don't watch movies through fan edits, and WB wouldn't encourage them to do so, for obvious reasons. So it still seems like a no-brainer to me that if they're going to release it, they're gonna have to sink the cash into it.

They gotta do the temptation thing with superman. I mean, timm "killed" wally for superman to go crazy. Its just messianic thing that's been shoved into the character. But, atleast snyder might do a subversion. (i hope. I am right)

Killing off Wally in an alternate universe designed to create an evil foil for Superman and the League is very different from killing Lois in the Main Story to turn the Main Superman evil - even if they're going to do a lot of time travel to save her and change it back.

I don't know, here's my problem. In Brave New Metropolis, Lois dies and Superman turns evil, but he remains sympathetic, he didn't mean for people to be oppressed in his name, he rededicates himself to helping people at the end, and Lois herself is the main character, she has a lot of agency in the story. In A Better World, Justice Lord Superman turns evil after an elaborate but entirely unseen plot by Luthor that it's hinted almost killed billions, in addition to killing the Flash. Superman may be sympathetic, but he's entirely irredeemable, and Lois is still around calling him out on his bullshit.

It's only once we reach Injustice, by far the most influential of the Evil Superman stories, that we get the most heinous and awful of Supermen, who murders a child right on screen for the crime of questioning him. In Injustice we start to see the bleak teleology of "Lois Dies, therefore, Superman turns into the Worst Monster Imaginable" as a significant element of the character. Brave New Metropolis concluded that Superman could never be that evil, only misguided, and A Better World treats Lord Superman as a foil to League Superman, different primarily in the choices they made, as Divided We Fall illustrates. Superman is able to solidly reaffirm for himself that "Evil" is a series of choices which he will not make, in both animated takes on the issue. By contrast, Injustice portrays Superman's fall as a kind of cosmic domino effect, a nigh inevitable sequence of events starting at Lois' death and ending at Super-Monster. It plays that way to the extent that the main difference between the Real Superman who shows up at the end of Injustice and the Regime Superman, seems to be that his Lois is alive and he never killed the Joker, in contrast to JLU where it's about choices. Sure, there's more depth to Superman's fall than that in the comic, but not really in the game. Besides, those are the broad strokes, the first thing anyone sees and the only thing many fans care about.

And that story dangles over the Snyderverse like the Sword of Damocles.
Sure, I'm confident that Zack Snyder had a more detailed version of events than that planned out. It's significant that in Injustice, Superman's fall seems to be because he's uniquely prone to turning evil, while Snyder has made very clear that the despair merely makes him more vulnerable to Anti-Life. Still, when Nightmare Superman articulates his turn to Darkseid in the same language that Real Superman uses to articulate his devotion to Earth, it's easy to look past that detail. Aesthetically, the arc "Lois dies and Superman turns evil" is similar enough to Injustice that I'm not convinced casual viewers would have seen it any differently.

Anyway, sorry to waste all these words on a story we're probably never going to see in the first place. :P I've just thought about this a lot over the years and had an excuse to vomit those thoughts up over the page, haha

[Bored at 3:00AM]

We'll never get the Justice League that Snyder & Terrio originally envisioned because that movie was never filmed. That said, I am very interested in seeing what was filmed and how Snyder and his crew cut it together, mostly because I thought his Director's Cut of BvS was a really interesting film, even if I had major issues with some of his choices.

Guys like Zack Snyder don't always hit it out of the park every time, but I am always interested in seeing what he is able to put out there, particularly after all the hype and hoopla of the past few years, you just know that Snyder is going to do everything in his power to make this film as good as he's capable of.

[manwhohaseverything]

Killing off Wally in an alternate universe designed to create an evil foil for Superman and the League is very different from killing Lois in the Main Story to turn the Main Superman evil - even if they're going to do a lot of time travel to save her and change it back.

I don't know, here's my problem. In Brave New Metropolis, Lois dies and Superman turns evil, but he remains sympathetic, he didn't mean for people to be oppressed in his name, he rededicates himself to helping people at the end, and Lois herself is the main character, she has a lot of agency in the story. In A Better World, Justice Lord Superman turns evil after an elaborate but entirely unseen plot by Luthor that it's hinted almost killed billions, in addition to killing the Flash. Superman may be sympathetic, but he's entirely irredeemable, and Lois is still around calling him out on his bullshit.

It's only once we reach Injustice, by far the most influential of the Evil Superman stories, that we get the most heinous and awful of Supermen, who murders a child right on screen for the crime of questioning him. In Injustice we start to see the bleak teleology of "Lois Dies, therefore, Superman turns into the Worst Monster Imaginable" as a significant element of the character. Brave New Metropolis concluded that Superman could never be that evil, only misguided, and A Better World treats Lord Superman as a foil to League Superman, different primarily in the choices they made, as Divided We Fall illustrates. Superman is able to solidly reaffirm for himself that "Evil" is a series of choices which he will not make, in both animated takes on the issue. By contrast, Injustice portrays Superman's fall as a kind of cosmic domino effect, a nigh inevitable sequence of events starting at Lois' death and ending at Super-Monster. It plays that way to the extent that the main difference between the Real Superman who shows up at the end of Injustice and the Regime Superman, seems to be that his Lois is alive and he never killed the Joker, in contrast to JLU where it's about choices. Sure, there's more depth to Superman's fall than that in the comic, but not really in the game. Besides, those are the broad strokes, the first thing anyone sees and the only thing many fans care about.

And that story dangles over the Snyderverse like the Sword of Damocles.
Sure, I'm confident that Zack Snyder had a more detailed version of events than that planned out. It's significant that in Injustice, Superman's fall seems to be because he's uniquely prone to turning evil, while Snyder has made very clear that the despair merely makes him more vulnerable to Anti-Life. Still, when Nightmare Superman articulates his turn to Darkseid in the same language that Real Superman uses to articulate his devotion to Earth, it's easy to look past that detail. Aesthetically, the arc "Lois dies and Superman turns evil" is similar enough to Injustice that I'm not convinced casual viewers would have seen it any differently.

Anyway, sorry to waste all these words on a story we're probably never going to see in the first place. :P I've just thought about this a lot over the years and had an excuse to vomit those thoughts up over the page, haha

Well, they did put main universe dcau superman in the same position as the alternate version.Question blames superman for hiding the truth of alternate reality. "on that earth, so very like our own earth.a superman, very much like our own killed president luthor.if its quite not the same, it soon will be" . There was that scene where question tries to kill luthor so that superman can't. Brainiac luthor tries to kill wally remember? Wally enters the speed force. So, effectively "kills" him. It's the same thing. See, it goes like this. Lois is "killed" by darkseid. Darkseid then uses antilife to tempt superman. Then superman resists . By which time, the others save lois. It's the same arc.

I don't particularly view justice lord superman as irredeemable. He is just a totalitarian, not genocidal maniac. Even the villains he doesn't kill indiscriminately. His stance is somewhat justified when the justice system and democracy itself failed. He just turned the world into china-esque place. For better or for worse.

[stargazer01]

Seems like a win/win. The Snydercut fans get satisfied and we then shut up about it, the Snyder haters get something to bitch about, and everyone in the middle gets to see new content featuring some of their favorite DC characters.

If only that could happen.. but I'm pretty sure many of them will continue to talk about it and to throw into our faces how the Snyder cut of JL is such a masterpiece and "Josstice League" a total abomination.

They are already convinced it's the greatest film we never saw.. it's so annoying and makes the Superman fandom so divisive and hostile.