25 years later, what are your thoughts on Spider-Man: The Animated Series?

[Hybrid]

I've been watching it again on Disney+ and I wanted to see what you guys think about the series in retrospect, 25 years after it first aired?

For me, some things about it have aged remarkably well, others less so. It's important to remember that in the '90s, there just wasn't anything like it, so audiences watched and accepted it, warts and all. I could argue this was the best version Spider-Man you could get at the time, what with The Clone Saga being ongoing when it aired and for two years after, which TAS made fun of with the famous "bad comic book plot" line.

The best parts for me include

• The stories. The characters felt relatable and like people, and often you find yourself engrossed in what's happening (though there are some missed marks that I'll cover below). It helps that they do both serialized stories, and multi-episode arcs, and they use non-Spidey guests just enough that it's cool when it happens and helps to establish the wider world.
• The writing. Despite being hampered with censorship issues, they still manage to make the writing itself as good as can be in this situation.
• The voice acting. It was better than much of what could be found on '90s shows (not quite up to BTAS, but still pretty good) with Christopher Daniel Barnes as Spidey standing out in particular (I still tend to read comics in his voice).
• The theme song. Just a great, kick-ass industrial metal theme song that's short and sweet. Fun fact: Did you know Joe Perry of Aerosmith is on guitar?

The stuff I don't care for include

• Some changes made to the lore. Like with Black Cat being able to beat Spider-Man because of a super soldier serum (which is hilarious because Spidey could beat her serum or no), Electro as Red Skull's son which is just odd, comic relief Venom, and just some attempts at simplifying the source material.
• The censorship. Spider-Man: TAS was one of the biggest victims of this, and that it managed to be good despite it is a miracle. It's actually pretty funny how extensive it is, like the police using laser weapons and no one being allowed to say "die".
• The fighting. No one threw punches, but swung kicks, wrestled and grabbed each other, which was just weird. Apparently, it wasn't even censorship, but an attempt to make fights more dynamic. It didn't really do that so well, and the animation was too limited to make it work.

Anyways, what do you think of Spider-Man: The Animated Series going back?

Discuss.

[Master Planner]

This show had a tremendous influence outside of comics. The version of Green Goblin and Venom pretty much became the basis for Raimi's version of said characters and Kingpin being the killed of Matt Murdock's father was followed in the DD movie, so we can't deny the impact that the 90s series had to 00s marvel movies. Also, the three episodes of Secret Wars was pretty much MCU before MCU, the first big crossover in 90s marvel animated series.

[Pav]

This show had a tremendous influence outside of comics. The version of Green Goblin and Venom pretty much became the basis for Raimi's version of said characters and Kingpin being the killed of Matt Murdock's father was followed in the DD movie, so we can't deny the impact that the 90s series had to 00s marvel movies. Also, the three episodes of Secret Wars was pretty much MCU before MCU, the first big crossover in 90s marvel animated series.

I think the show's portrayal of the Venom symbiote carried over into the comics in some major ways, also.

Personally, I loved the show as a kid. It definitely doesn't hold up as well as other cartoons, but there are still some really excellent episodes/arcs.

-Pav, who obviously loved the Spider Wars episodes...

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It was a show that was fine for it’s time but I would say it did not age well. Of course it’s still one of the best Marvel cartoons and the second best Spider-Man after Spectacular and third best overall animated Spider-Man after ITSV and Spectacular. But that’s not saying much when you compare it to dreck like the crap Disney put out under Wacker and Quesada.

In terms of animation and art style it’s quite ugly. Too over-lit and garish. I think the show lost steam with the final season going for AU storylines and melodramatic contrivances. The stuff with MJ falling into a portal and then coming later and that being a clone is a total insult to the audience and a turgid story concept. Not to mention that such au stuff and so on is against the spirit of Spider-Man’s stories.

If you compare the show overall to stuff like Bruce Timm’s work at WB with Batman and Superman, it’s aged even less well. Marvel is supposed to be relatable and grounded and more experimental than DC but in animation, it was and remains far more conservative than DC/WB, at least until ITSV. Time and Others made Batman, Superman and others into relatable characters with depth and shade whereas Fox Spider-Man is not a very complex character and fairly simplistic yet on the whole.

[Huntsman Spider]

I think the show's portrayal of the Venom symbiote carried over into the comics in some major ways, also.

Personally, I loved the show as a kid. It definitely doesn't hold up as well as other cartoons, but there are still some really excellent episodes/arcs.

-Pav, who obviously loved the Spider Wars episodes...

Uh-huh, since the original comic version just had Peter reject the symbiote on account of being disgusted that it was alive and sapient, which made him look kind of like a jerk, so the TAS explanation that the symbiote was warping his mind by amplifying his aggression and other negative emotions and impulses and would have eventually subsumed him into itself entirely went a long way toward absolving him of that character flaw and making the resulting Venom a more dangerous enemy.

That said, I would agree with you in loving the Spider Wars finale episodes, mainly because at their core was a story about who Peter Parker/Spider-Man was at his core, told through the sci-fi mechanism of alternate realities showing what his life could have been. In one world, he's a multibillionaire beloved by the people of the city he protects and cares for --- and also an arrogant jerk who can't comprehend failure or loss because he's never lost or failed anything or anyone. In another world, he's driven mad by all the losses he's endured --- his parents, his uncle and later his aunt, and even his own sense of identity as a result of the existence of his clone and the revelation that he may have been the clone all along --- and with the pernicious influence of the Carnage symbiote twisting him further, he embarks on a plot to avenge himself by completely annihilating reality itself. Ultimately, it's the values instilled in Peter by Uncle Ben that inspire his arrogant multibillionaire alternate self to be a heroic protector of his world, even with his aforementioned character flaws, and compel the tormented, heartbroken Peter Parker inside Spider-Carnage to at last attempt to reject the symbiote poisoning his mind before sacrificing himself to save all reality from it.

Then came the honestly sweet moment where Peter got to hug and say goodbye to his Uncle Ben one last time, and another honestly sweet and heartfelt moment where he finally met his creator, Stan "The Man" Lee (R.I.P.). He even admitted to him that after everything he'd seen and done and been through, after seeing at least two different versions of how his life could have turned out, for better or worse, he was for once at peace with himself and who he was, and when Stan remarked that that didn't sound like the character he'd been writing all these years, Spidey's response killed it for me in the best way possible: "Well, Stan, we all have to grow up sometime, I suppose. Even us characters of fiction." If only some people working for Marvel understood that, we wouldn't have gotten all those desperate efforts to backtrack on Peter's character growth and development in the comics, Clone Saga included (even though I did like Ben Reilly).

[Ursalink]

I really liked this series, but I'm still pissed by the fact that they ended it with such a cliffhanger and Spider-Man couldn't save Mary Jane. After that, we still have a lot of potential new stories.

[Prof. Warren]

It was a show that was fine for it’s time but I would say it did not age well. Of course it’s still one of the best Marvel cartoons and the second best Spider-Man after Spectacular and third best overall animated Spider-Man after ITSV and Spectacular. But that’s not saying much when you compare it to dreck like the crap Disney put out under Wacker and Quesada.

I wouldn't compare any of the televised animated series to ITSV. It's just not fair to compare a film with the budget and resources of ITSV with a TV series that has to grind out multiple seasons for a very different medium and with a fraction of the funds.

In terms of animation and art style it’s quite ugly. Too over-lit and garish. I think the show lost steam with the final season going for AU storylines and melodramatic contrivances. The stuff with MJ falling into a portal and then coming later and that being a clone is a total insult to the audience and a turgid story concept. Not to mention that such au stuff and so on is against the spirit of Spider-Man’s stories.

I wouldn't call MJ falling into a portal and then coming back as a clone an "insult to the audience" any more than any other outlandish comic book plot. And as the target audience for the show was the toy-buying crowd of eight to twelve year old boys, I don't think any of them took special offense to it.

I do agree, though, that the more far-flung, AU storylines that the series went on to do was not in keeping with the grounded spirit of Spidey. Then again, to look at how those aspects have gone on become mainstays of the Spidey comics and movies, I guess you'd have to give the show credit for being ahead of the curve.

If you compare the show overall to stuff like Bruce Timm’s work at WB with Batman and Superman, it’s aged even less well. Marvel is supposed to be relatable and grounded and more experimental than DC but in animation, it was and remains far more conservative than DC/WB, at least until ITSV. Time and Others made Batman, Superman and others into relatable characters with depth and shade whereas Fox Spider-Man is not a very complex character and fairly simplistic yet on the whole.

As great as the '90s Batman and Superman cartoons are, I don't think they've aged especially well either. I remember those - especially Batman - as being mind-blowing, just absolutely game-changing when they aired first run. They don't look like that now. They're still well-crafted shows, sure, but they do visibly show their age, just like Spider-Man does. It's ok. Nothing is completely evergreen - especially not cartoons aimed at kids.

Then came the honestly sweet moment where Peter got to hug and say goodbye to his Uncle Ben one last time, and another honestly sweet and heartfelt moment where he finally met his creator, Stan "The Man" Lee (R.I.P.). He even admitted to him that after everything he'd seen and done and been through, after seeing at least two different versions of how his life could have turned out, for better or worse, he was for once at peace with himself and who he was, and when Stan remarked that that didn't sound like the character he'd been writing all these years, Spidey's response killed it for me in the best way possible: "Well, Stan, we all have to grow up sometime, I suppose. Even us characters of fiction." If only some people working for Marvel understood that, we wouldn't have gotten all those desperate efforts to backtrack on Peter's character growth and development in the comics, Clone Saga included (even though I did like Ben Reilly).

When people say they wish the comics could be more like a movie, a game, or a TV show, it fails to address the way that comics differ from those other mediums - the fact that comics can't offer a definitive ending. In mediums where the narrative can come to an actual conclusion, Peter can reach a certain level of maturity, come to an epiphany about his life, etc. etc., and the story can leave him in that place. In comics, that can't happen. Lessons have to be re-learned and the same - or at least similar - struggles have to be cycled through many times. That's just the nature of a never-ending narrative.

I really liked this series, but I'm still pissed by the fact that they ended it with such a cliffhanger and Spider-Man couldn't save Mary Jane. After that, we still have a lot of potential new stories.

I agree it sucks that it was cancelled - reportedly due to a disagreement between Avi Arad and Fox - but I never took the ending as a cliffhanger, per se.

I always assumed that Peter would succeed in finding MJ and that it was, in its own way, a satisfying way to leave things off.

[CrimsonEchidna]

It's aged very poorly.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I wouldn't compare any of the televised animated series to ITSV. It's just not fair to compare a film with the budget and resources of ITSV with a TV series that has to grind out multiple seasons for a very different medium and with a fraction of the funds.

Which is why I distinguished between second best animated Spider-Man show, and third best animated Spider-Man overall. Similar to how Bruce Timm's Superman show is the best Superman animated show but second best animated Superman after the Fleischer Theatrical Shorts of the '40s.

As great as the '90s Batman and Superman cartoons are, I don't think they've aged especially well either.

The consensus is that they have indeed aged well and they remain influential and widely quoted and discussed decades later. So much so the voice-actor of Batman recently got a chance to play the character in live-action in the recent Crisis event on TV...and that was treated as an event.

Ta-Nehisi Coates talks about it all the time as well. Edward Gorey was also an admirer. So it had a reach and impact that was much bigger than anything. The hugely influential Arkham games that came out had the voice cast of the series while also borrowing whole storylines from episodes like Heart of Ice, Over the Edge, and other things.The character Harley Quinn created for the show is now played by Hollywood's biggest young female star.

The Fox Spider-man show isn't remotely like that.

I remember those - especially Batman - as being mind-blowing, just absolutely game-changing when they aired first run. They don't look like that now. They're still well-crafted shows, sure, but they do visibly show their age, just like Spider-Man does.

The animation of Batman in terms of aesthetics, its muted colors, shadows, lighting and special cartoony designs remain widely influential and beautiful and discussed.

I mean ITSV has a homage to Bruce Timm's show. In the Spider-Cave hideout of the Blonde Peter, the place where different Spider-Man costumes are arranged in a row, is based on how the costumes were displayed in the Batcave in the Batman show. It even has the same light blue lighting.

[Huntsman Spider]

Which is why I distinguished between second best animated Spider-Man show, and third best animated Spider-Man overall. Similar to how Bruce Timm's Superman show is the best Superman animated show but second best animated Superman after the Fleischer Theatrical Shorts of the '40s.



The consensus is that they have indeed aged well and they remain influential and widely quoted and discussed decades later. So much so the voice-actor of Batman recently got a chance to play the character in live-action in the recent Crisis event on TV...and that was treated as an event.

Ta-Nehisi Coates talks about it all the time as well. Edward Gorey was also an admirer. So it had a reach and impact that was much bigger than anything. The hugely influential Arkham games that came out had the voice cast of the series while also borrowing whole storylines from episodes like Heart of Ice, Over the Edge, and other things.The character Harley Quinn created for the show is now played by Hollywood's biggest young female star.

The Fox Spider-man show isn't remotely like that.



The animation of Batman in terms of aesthetics, its muted colors, shadows, lighting and special cartoony designs remain widely influential and beautiful and discussed.

I mean ITSV has a homage to Bruce Timm's show. In the Spider-Cave hideout of the Blonde Peter, the place where different Spider-Man costumes are arranged in a row, is based on how the costumes were displayed in the Batcave in the Batman show. It even has the same light blue lighting.

Are you referring to Batman Beyond and Justice League, by any chance? Because that's where I recall the suits/costumes of Batman and his partners first being displayed in the Batcave.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Are you referring to Batman Beyond and Justice League, by any chance? Because that's where I recall the suits/costumes of Batman and his partners first being displayed in the Batcave.

It was done before that in The New Adventures of Batman, which is the sequel to the original BTAS. But maybe you are right.

[Frontier]

It was a show that was fine for it’s time but I would say it did not age well. Of course it’s still one of the best Marvel cartoons and the second best Spider-Man after Spectacular and third best overall animated Spider-Man after ITSV and Spectacular. But that’s not saying much when you compare it to dreck like the crap Disney put out under Wacker and Quesada.

In terms of animation and art style it’s quite ugly. Too over-lit and garish. I think the show lost steam with the final season going for AU storylines and melodramatic contrivances. The stuff with MJ falling into a portal and then coming later and that being a clone is a total insult to the audience and a turgid story concept. Not to mention that such au stuff and so on is against the spirit of Spider-Man’s stories.

If you compare the show overall to stuff like Bruce Timm’s work at WB with Batman and Superman, it’s aged even less well. Marvel is supposed to be relatable and grounded and more experimental than DC but in animation, it was and remains far more conservative than DC/WB, at least until ITSV. Time and Others made Batman, Superman and others into relatable characters with depth and shade whereas Fox Spider-Man is not a very complex character and fairly simplistic yet on the whole.

I think it's aged poorly in some respects (the poor animation, the handling of certain storylines, the very 90's-esque nature of it), but comparably I think there are quite a few elements of it that have aged very well like the DCAU.

I thought the AU element at least felt more fitting in a "Grand Finale" sense then it ever did as a Spider-Verse story.

I don't agree Fox's Spider-Man wasn't a complex character. If by "simplistic" they streamlined things, then yes. But I think they captured the multi-faceted, the personal and dramatic highs and lows, and the life full of stakes that make the character of Spider-Man Spider-Man. And compared to the early DCAU Spider-Man: The Animated Series was the first big comic book cartoon that had very serialized storytelling (and definitely the first one in that vein that I saw as a kid).

And, I mean, we got Christopher Daniel Barnes as Spider-Man, Jennifer Hale as Black Cat, Mark Hamill as The Hobgoblin, Efrem Zimbalist Jr as Doc Ock, Hank Azaria as Venom, Ed Asner as J Jonah Jameson, Solid Snak...I mean, David Hayter as Captain America, Earl Boen as The Beyonder, and Roscoe Lee Brown as The Kingpin. The show was worth it on all that alone.

As an adaption I think Spectacular was much stronger on several fronts, but got cut down in the prime of it's youth. At the same time, I think Spider-Man: The Animated Series was groundbreaking for era it came out in and was a major turning point for the franchise as far as media adaptions. I know it's what made me a Spider-Man fan.

[Hybrid]

What do you guys think of how TAS handled the use of outside, non-Spider elements?

I thought they did it well. As mentioned above, they handled it just right, not going overboard with guests (like certain other Spider-Man series...) but featuring just enough appearances and references to different heroes that it was cool when it happened. Some of the best episodes in fact had guests, like the two-parter where Spider-Man crossed over with the X-Men and of course the Secret Wars adaptation.

I felt like the one thing that held Spectacular back was that it didn't have the rest of the Marvel Universe due to legal reasons (though they rolled with it pretty well), and Ultimate went way overboard with the wide MU while making Spidey a lot less special in the process. This, however, shows the ideal balance that I hope the inevitable future Disney+ original Spider-Man animated series will take after.

[Frontier]

What do you guys think of how TAS handled the use of outside, non-Spider elements?

I thought they did it well. As mentioned above, they handled it just right, not going overboard with guests (like certain other Spider-Man series...) but featuring just enough appearances and references to different heroes that it was cool when it happened. Some of the best episodes in fact had guests, like the two-parter where Spider-Man crossed over with the X-Men and of course the Secret Wars adaptation.

I felt like the one thing that held Spectacular back was that it didn't have the rest of the Marvel Universe due to legal reasons (though they rolled with it pretty well), and Ultimate went way overboard with the wide MU while making Spidey a lot less special in the process. This, however, shows the ideal balance that I hope the inevitable future Disney+ original Spider-Man animated series will take after.

I think that worked to Spectacular's strength in that it could dive into Spider-Man's world 100% and make it even more compelling, but I agree Spider-Man: The Animated Series had the right balance of a show set in a Marvel Universe with other established heroes alongside Spider-Man, and it wasn't as in your face about it or as continuity scratching as in Ultimate Spider-Man or Marvel's Spider-Man.

[Huntsman Spider]

What do you guys think of how TAS handled the use of outside, non-Spider elements?

I thought they did it well. As mentioned above, they handled it just right, not going overboard with guests (like certain other Spider-Man series...) but featuring just enough appearances and references to different heroes that it was cool when it happened. Some of the best episodes in fact had guests, like the two-parter where Spider-Man crossed over with the X-Men and of course the Secret Wars adaptation.

I felt like the one thing that held Spectacular back was that it didn't have the rest of the Marvel Universe due to legal reasons (though they rolled with it pretty well), and Ultimate went way overboard with the wide MU while making Spidey a lot less special in the process. This, however, shows the ideal balance that I hope the inevitable future Disney+ original Spider-Man animated series will take after.

I would agree with that, with the added note that each time they did have guest heroes, they found a way to tie it back to affecting Peter Parker's story and characterization. He wasn't just dropped into someone else's story, that someone else's story intersected with his for the duration of that episode, and then went on to have further impact in the series. The return of Venom and debut of Carnage that gave us the Iron Man (and War Machine) team-up also debuted the Time-Dilation Accelerator portal device, which remained as a plot point for the next three episodes (that also concluded the season, coincidentally) and even came back to facilitate the Multiversal omnicide intended by the final villain of the series.

That would be one such example, though a somewhat better one that had an impact throughout the rest of the series was the Daredevil team-up, which revealed to Peter/Spider-Man that the "philanthropist" he had saved two seasons earlier from being assassinated by the Hobgoblin was really the Kingpin of Crime, who had framed both his identities for selling state secrets on the black market. Then there was the X-Men team-up giving us Herbert Landon, who would resurface next season as the Kingpin's new right-hand man, even turning Alistair Smythe into a bio-cyborg Spider-Slayer as Kingpin's way of punishing Smythe for his past failures, the last of which had resulted in Kingpin having to send his beloved son to prison to save himself from arrest for the aforementioned plot to frame Peter/Spidey.