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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Default Earth 2: what would you like to see?

    A companion piece to the “Earth-1985 — what would you like to see?” thread.

    As of Doomsday Clock #12, a new explanation for Earth 2 had emerged: it was the preservation of the Golden Age that came into being when Barry Allen became the Flash, the Speed Force came into existence, and the Multiverse was born. There's some question about its history after the Crisis; one school of thought is that it somehow survived as a distinct Earth but was moved away from where it used to be and was thus inaccessible from the post-Crisis Earth; the other possibility is that it was destroyed in the Crisis and its last remnants were merged with Earth 1 to form the post-Crisis DCU. With the DDC#12 notion that worlds split to preserve all eras of Superman, it's possible that both happened.

    It's also possible that if a copy was created as a result of the Crisis (or by the retroactive alteration of the Crisis at the end of Convergence), that this copy somehow got dragged into the Infinite Crisis and helped provide the “DNA” for New Earth and its Multiverse. It's possible that Bart Allen was sent to this Earth during Infinite Crisis (before Alex Luthor summoned the Infinite Earths) and that there Earth 2 Lois, Wonder Woman, and Superman all find their way back there upon their “deaths” (there were some retcons in the TPB of Infinite Crisis implying something to this effect). It's also possible that it was “pulled into” the new Multiverse and became the new Multiverse's Earth 2 (which, as revealed by the final JSA Annual before Flashpoint, was effectively a continuation of the pre-Crisis Earth 2). Then Flashpoint hit and rewrote the Multiverse. But it's arguable that if the aforementioned “preservation split” feature extends beyond the primary Earth, a copy of the JSI Earth may exist somewhere out there, distinct from the New 52 Earth 2. And it's also possible that as of DDC#12, the Rebirth Earth 2 last seen in Earth 2 Society has been reverted to something resembling the original Earth 2.

    All of which is a long-winded way of saying that at the moment, Earth 2 can potentially be whatever DC wants it to be; it can even be several of those things at once, in the form of multiple iterations of Earth 2. With that in mind, what would you like to see?

    I'll post my own preferences later; I'm currently at work.
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  2. #2

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    Ideally, I would like E2 to be a universe where we could see the original JSA continue to fight the good fight. There’s too many good characters (Al Pratt, Rex Tyler, et al) that haven’t been used in years. That means no Zero Hour. In fact, I’d like to see the E2 Batman and Mr. Terrific still alive. No reason they could not have simply retired and passed the torch onto Helena Wayne and Michael Holt. I always thought it was a unique idea to have Bruce continue on as a civilian Police Commissioner. If DC were to go this route, I’d also like a return of the All-Star Squadron. Being it is now 30-35 years since the last time DC did this, there would have to be some way to explain the large gap in time that exists between WWII and the present day.

  3. #3
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    Earth 2 = The Justice Society
    Infinity Inc.
    All Stars=formerly "Squadron"
    Freedom Fighters
    Young Society=Star Girl/Cyclone/Power Girl=Tanya Spears/Judomaster/Jakeem Thunder/Tomcat/Damage/

  4. #4
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    I would love to see a earth 2 more close to the original pre-Crisis concept, a Golden age earth.
    But also, having the JSA in the main earth, it makes necesary for make an attractive place to visit to have their own traits. I remember I liked the JSI which was briefly seen in an annual of the JSA. It was just a brush stroke but it could had been interesting to explore more.
    So how make it different from the mainstream JSA and yet still keep their GA identity? That is the challenge.
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  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    I think what I'd like would be a multigenerational Earth, similar to the way the Primary Earth's history is being set up — and in many ways, paralleling it. I'd also want it to be a “clutter-Earth” in the spirit of Roy Thomas' All-Star Squadron: its G1 is populated by as many heroes from the Golden Age as DC is allowed to include, including several that got shifted to G2 or later on the Primary Earth (e.g., Superman, Batman, Aquaman, Green Arrow, Captain Marvel, and Plastic Man), regardless of the original publishing house. The most notable absences would be Marvel's Invaders and MLJ's Crusaders, which wouldn't be allowed due to copyrights held by Marvel and Archie respectively.

    Its G2 should add the original Charlton Comics characters, the Agents of THUNDER (if permitted), the Young All-Stars, and Infinity Inc. You could have the Young All-Stars serve as stand-ins for the Justice League where appropriate: after all, they were initially created post-Crisis as substitutes for the newly-erased pre-Crisis Earth 2 Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman; and turnabout is fair play.

    Earth 2's G3 should introduce all of the Golden Age legacy characters that DC invented from post-Crisis to pre-Flashpoint, from Jesse Quick to Jack Knight to Stargirl to Cyclone to the newest Crimson Avenger and Ystina the Shining Knight. If Milestone and/or Wildstorm characters are permitted, this is the Generation they'd be introduced in.

    And G4 should mine the New 52's Earth 2 for heroes. Sadly, you won't find many who aren't redundant; but there are at least three: Val-Zod, Marella, and Connor Hawke. I'd reimagine Val-Zod as Earth 2's counterpart to Superboy — though in the same way that Earth 2's Kara Zor-L is called Power Girl, Val-Zod should probably not be called Superboy. Marella would replace Mera; and Connor Hawke would be reimagined as the son of the now-retired G1-era Green Arrow: he's not replacing his father because dad blew himself up; he's replacing his father because dad is too old for this $#!†.

    Taking Connor Hawke as inspiration, I'd consider adding two more like him: Mia Dearden and Lorena Marquez as the legacy characters for the Golden Age Speedy and Aquagirl (Lisa Morel) respectively. I'd also consider inventing new legacy characters for whichever original characters of Earth 2 that don't already have one from E2G2/G3.

    While there are a lot of characters on Earth 2 that have duplicates on Earth 0, team memberships may not be the same: for instance, I could see Courtney Whitmore and her stepbrother Mike Dugan teamed up with Connor Hawke, Mia Dearden, Ystina, Jill Carlyle, and Adrian Chase to form the newest iteration of the Seven Soldiers of Victory instead of Stargirl being a member of the Justice Society.

    Storywise, I'd have G4 start out with a war against Apokalypse, roughly echoing the storyline that New 52's Earth 2 started out with: but only loosely, and the heroes of this Earth 2 would be much more successful against the invasion due to their greater experience and numbers. Even from the start, you don't begin with the loss of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman — though I could see starting out with Batman having died years ago just before his daughter became the Huntress, and Superman having gone missing years later. But if they're not on the Justice Society's roster when the invasion begins, it's not because Darkseid's forces killed them.
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  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    All-Star Squadron(Set in 1940s)
    Infinity Inc(Set in present day)
    Justice Society of America(Set in present day)
    Sensation Comics(E2 Wonder Woman set in 1940s)
    World's Finest(E2 Superman/Batman Family team-ups set in any era)
    Currently Reading:Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Legion of Super Heroes, Shazam, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  7. #7
    a man who created images dr-brainwave's Avatar
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    At least this:


  8. #8
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    In Earth 2 was Dinah ever on the JSA at the same time as Huntress and Powergirl (I know they weren't actually introduced until after she crossed earths, but don't know about later continuities)? And how long was Batman alive after Huntress debuted - I'm a bit hazy on that. On all of Earth 2, really, as it wasn't really my thing. Mostly only know it from 70s JLA comics.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    In Earth 2 was Dinah ever on the JSA at the same time as Huntress and Powergirl (I know they weren't actually introduced until after she crossed earths, but don't know about later continuities)? And how long was Batman alive after Huntress debuted - I'm a bit hazy on that. On all of Earth 2, really, as it wasn't really my thing. Mostly only know it from 70s JLA comics.
    Good question, I don't know. My gut says no, but...I can't really say for sure.

  10. #10
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    JSA:

    Alan Scott (Green Lantern)
    Jay Garrick (The Flash)
    Ted Grant (Wildcat)
    Kent Nelson (Dr. Fate)
    Carter Hall (Hawkman)
    Kara Zor-L (Power Girl)
    Dick Grayson (Nightwing)
    Helena Wayne (Huntress)
    Starman (not sure)
    Mr. Terrific (not sure)
    Dr. Midnite (could be Pieter, could not be as well)
    Jim Corrigan (the Spectre)

    The idea here is to be close to the classic version pushed into the modern age, with sundry explanations as to why the old school, or some of them, haven't aged too much. And for them to be the representatives of "the greatest generation", guys who actually confronted the greatest evil Earth 2 had seen to that point and won, teaching not just their techniques, bu their values as well. They would be the powerhouse of Earth 2 teams of course, but also the gold standard in other respects.


    Infinity Inc is pretty much what it was.

    I would fold in teams like the Challengers of the Unknown, the Sea Devils, guys like Sgt. Rock or a descendent, guys like Slam Bradley...you get the picture, I would want Earth 2 to have that pulpy Silver Age vibe; a place where Doc Savage could very well live, (just as an example).

    Other solo heroes would exist and be active, such as Superman (Kal-L), Batman (Bruce Wayne), Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, and others.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    The idea here is to be close to the classic version pushed into the modern age, with sundry explanations as to why the old school, or some of them, haven't aged too much. And for them to be the representatives of "the greatest generation", guys who actually confronted the greatest evil Earth 2 had seen to that point and won, teaching not just their techniques, bu their values as well. They would be the powerhouse of Earth 2 teams of course, but also the gold standard in other respects.
    How different is this to gen 1 and what time frame is it in? It matters to me in a mild sort of way, because I find the non-aging for 60-80 years unacceptable and think it's a detriment to continuing stories (and them seeing friends, lovers, and children die generation after generation is totally the wrong tone). Also, the ages of theyounger members don't pan out that way, either. If this is another earth - and it is - then I think it best to set it in the 1960s - maybe push to 70s, if necessary for Huntress (easier to tweak timeline for when she was born, I think), and have the 40s heroes age naturally.

    As another earth, it could be technologically/socially different than our own, I guess. I think that the actually 60s/70s mindset might alienate some readers. But that 70 years have passed and Bruce's daughter is 20 and Dick is 20-35-seeming and everyone else is 40-seeming is not tenable to me. Especially as 70 years becomes 90 or 110 years when time passes, and their spouses and children (or step-children) should have died by now.

    I also don't think having Dick as Nightwing works that well for suiting the era. A Robin that grew up with Dick (instead of him outgrowing the role) would be much more era-appropriate. But, I can understand sacrificing era-accuracy because fans can not accept an adult Robin as they once could.

    Relative ages matter to me. If keeping original ages (and Earth 2 didn't always, to say the least), then Dick is at least 14 years older than Helena, and Kara is similarly aged to Dick. If you want them (even Helena and Kara) as contemporaries, then histories have to be rewritten (as DC knows). Whatever is chosen, it needs to be established from day one and not altered later.

    Also, please kill with fire any idea of Dick and Helena Wayne in a romantic relationship.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 12-27-2019 at 08:17 AM.

  12. #12
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    This


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    How different is this to gen 1 and what time frame is it in? It matters to me in a mild sort of way, because I find the non-aging for 60-80 years unacceptable and think it's a detriment to continuing stories (and them seeing friends, lovers, and children die generation after generation is totally the wrong tone). Also, the ages of theyounger members don't pan out that way, either. If this is another earth - and it is - then I think it best to set it in the 1960s - maybe push to 70s, if necessary for Huntress (easier to tweak timeline for when she was born, I think), and have the 40s heroes age naturally.

    As another earth, it could be technologically/socially different than our own, I guess. I think that the actually 60s/70s mindset might alienate some readers. But that 70 years have passed and Bruce's daughter is 20 and Dick is 20-35-seeming and everyone else is 40-seeming is not tenable to me. Especially as 70 years becomes 90 or 110 years when time passes, and their spouses and children (or step-children) should have died by now.

    I also don't think having Dick as Nightwing works that well for suiting the era. A Robin that grew up with Dick (instead of him outgrowing the role) would be much more era-appropriate. But, I can understand sacrificing era-accuracy because fans can not accept an adult Robin as they once could.

    Relative ages matter to me. If keeping original ages (and Earth 2 didn't always, to say the least), then Dick is at least 14 years older than Helena, and Kara is similarly aged to Dick. If you want them (even Helena and Kara) as contemporaries, then histories have to be rewritten (as DC knows). Whatever is chosen, it needs to be established from day one and not altered later.

    Also, please kill with fire any idea of Dick and Helena Wayne in a romantic relationship.
    I have no set idea about character ages, and frankly, I wouldn't be too concerned with rigorous explanations of why the original characters haven't aged as much as they should. Three of them have built-in explanations that have already been presented, GL, (magic), Dr. Fate (magic), Flash (well, here you have to connect him to the speed force). Basically all "a wizard did it". Others might age. Wildcat has that 9 lives thing I think Johns put in. Kara is about the only other one I had any idea about for age, and I'd make it very late teens/very early twenties, and of course she's Kryptonian anyway. Kal, I'd just have using the gray hair dye trick to look older, Diana is immortal, Bruce got his start a lot later than them, but is still an elder statesman among the newer generation of heroes.

    Honestly, since I'd envisioned a pulp style universe for this, I'm not quite as concerned with strictly defining those things. Basically a mix of heroes with godlike power, (Superman, PG, Wonder Woman, GL, Flash, Dr. Fate, Spectre), with those of mere human abilities or more modest powers. Nothing much else needed to give it a set-up.

  14. #14
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    We've got two possibilities here. And I'd treat them differently.

    The first would be to take Earth Two at a point in history at Barry's origin or J'Onn's first appearance. The Trinity are doing most everything as seen by page counts. The JSA has pretty much shut down, at least publicly. Some other heroes still have adventures, but they're relatively minor.

    What I would do would be to take a hearing at the same time and place as the Congressional Hearing. Being Golden Age Earth-Two, the focus is on the advanced technology some people had and what it has to do with the increase in Alien visitations. Now after over a decade of heroics, magic, and the beginnings of reversed engineered alien tech, Earth Two develops into an amazing future-retro world.

    The second option is to take Earth-Two from just pre-Crisis and store it in its own universe. The differences here are that all of the Silver Age adventures have happened, including All-Star Squadron and the team-ups with Earth One. It's the mid-eighties and I would focus on differences between this Earth and our own. Like the Quebec situation. Upon being stored, I'd imagine the Earth-One team-ups would cease, unless that Earth Two is stored in Earth 1985's universe and both worlds carried on having annual "crises" to hang out at. But in any case, it would be difficult for that Earth Two to not be totally Roy Thomasized.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    In Earth 2 was Dinah ever on the JSA at the same time as Huntress and Powergirl (I know they weren't actually introduced until after she crossed earths, but don't know about later continuities)? And how long was Batman alive after Huntress debuted - I'm a bit hazy on that. On all of Earth 2, really, as it wasn't really my thing. Mostly only know it from 70s JLA comics.
    The first ten issues of the much lamented Infinity, Inc. featured Wonder Woman, Huntress and Power Girl as members of the JSA.

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