Earth 52: what would you like to see?

[Dataweaver]

While we've been focusing heavily on what to keep and what to ditch (and I agree you should ditch as little as possible), there's also the question of what comes next. This is where you can start restoring things to an earlier state that you prefer over where things left off, and/or building on aspects that got neglected over the years to do something new and interesting — as long as the result is still recognizably New 52.

That said: we have Futures End, which charts or the near-term future of the New 52. If we keep that in continuity, then we have a map of sorts on how Earth 52 develops after it diverges from Earth 0. I'm thinking in particular of the “five years from now” part; the further future is a potential future that Futures End prevents.

[Zaresh]

Future's end is very 52 in spirit, as far as I can remember. But I think it has been mentioned a few times in our current Rebirth continuity? Maybe (clear) potential futures (like in this case or in Beyond) are a whole new beast: could be that they can be shared between earths, being kind of... outside the current time? I don't know how to put it.

[Dataweaver]

There's nothing saying that anything has to be one Earth or the other. It's recommended that you try to keep things distinct; but even there, it's entirely possible for a storyline that's “native” to one Earth to have occurred (in modified form) on other Earths.

As well, Hypertime's most elementary consequence is that there's more than one future: a given Earth might have a “preferred” future that gets referenced as “the” future, with other futures merely being tributaries that branch off from the present; and it's possible to change which future is the primary one (which is what Futures End ultimately did); but the other branches don't disappear. At most, they “stop”, and no more developments take place in those timelines.

But I digress: I don't think that Futures End is shared by New 52 and Rebirth. I'm pretty sure that Rebirth “rebooted” Batman Beyond in a way that removed all connections to the Batman Beyond future that Futures End created. (Does anyone know if Rebirth's Batman Beyond makes any meaningful references to Tim Drake ever having been Batman?) And it's not so much the Batman Beyond timeframe that I'm interested in so far as Earth 52 is concerned: it's the “five years from now” stuff. At this point, I'm envisioning Earth 52's timeline being moved forward five years and picking up with what Futures End describes as the present.

Personally, Is follow that up with a resurgence of the Wildstorm and Vertigo elements of the world, which is where my earlier post about the Kherubim, Daemonites, and New Gods comes into play. (Well, that; and a return to the notion that Earth 52 has a secret history of superhumans. It's just that prior to Superman's debut, they tended to operate in the shadows.)

[Zaresh]

I think I remember Terry wondering about Tim in the first issues of Rebirth Beyond, but I may be remembering wrong.

[Dataweaver]

And if that's all there is connecting them, it's trivial to just retcon it out. There are continuity glitches like this after every timeline-altering event.

[Zaresh]

And if that's all there is connecting them, it's trivial to just retcon it out. There are continuity glitches like this after every timeline-altering event.

It was a one time mention, if I'm not missremembering ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It could be reworked for being actually the Tim in that timeline, I guess. Tim existed/exists in that timeline (I stopped reading Beyond early, but I think they mentioned or even showed everyone but Jason).

[Rakzo]

The thing I want the most is for Jeff Lemire and Andrea Sorrentino to continue their work on New 52 Green Arrow since most of their ideas were either forgotten or ruined by Ben Percy.

[Blanks]

Jason Rusch and Ronnie as two separate Firestorms, Yellow and Red. Let Ronnies become unstable so he would have to fuse with the Prof. Heck, let Jason become his own standalone character, with a new name (I personally like the name Ion, never mind its part of the Green Lantern mythos). Develop the relationship the new Lorraine had with Jason. Pretty much develop him and his cast (that we were all introduced to prior to the 52, and let him be his own character outside the Firestorm franchise, only allowing his power origins connected to it.

When push comes to shove, he and Ronnie could create FURY when needed.

[Dataweaver]

The thing I want the most is for Jeff Lemire and Andrea Sorrentino to continue their work on New 52 Green Arrow since most of their ideas were either forgotten or ruined by Ben Percy.

As I may have said before, I didn't follow New 52 very closely. What did Lemire and Sorrentino do with Green Arrow?

From a quick web search, it looks like Percy's run started with Green Arrow Rebirth; if so, it's clearly not an Earth 52 thing; so this is an easy one. Frankly, it puts Percy's work in a new light: rather than “forgetting” or “ruining” the Lemire/Sorrentino stuff, it's set on a different Earth than the Lemire/Sorrentino stuff.

[Rakzo]

As I may have said before, I didn't follow New 52 very closely. What did Lemire and Sorrentino do with Green Arrow?

Lots of things actually.

To put it simply, New 52 before Lemire and Sorrentino was a mess, full of inconsistent directions based on the erratic nature of the New 52. Lemire arrived to the title with a clear idea though: Throw everything that came before away and make Green Arrow's universe bigger than ever. First they made Ollie's life hell by killing a couple people from his supporting cast, lose his fortune and get almost murdered by the recently created villain Komodo. Lemire also created Emiko who quickly became an important member of Ollie's supporting cast (although she was never as good as when Lemire wrote her) and the Outsiders (not to be confused with Batman's Outsiders) who were clans based on weapons and were sadly ignored by Percy (probably for the better though).

At first glance you could see that Lemire's influences were from Mike Grell's run due to the sorta grim and gritty tone and he also mentions it but actually I would say that his book has more in common with Golden Age Green Arrow because of the adventure tone and the worldbuilding he provided. In that sense, it was the most promising and expansive Green Arrow run of all time.

[Restingvoice]

While we've been focusing heavily on what to keep and what to ditch (and I agree you should ditch as little as possible), there's also the question of what comes next. This is where you can start restoring things to an earlier state that you prefer over where things left off, and/or building on aspects that got neglected over the years to do something new and interesting — as long as the result is still recognizably New 52.

That said: we have Futures End, which charts or the near-term future of the New 52. If we keep that in continuity, then we have a map of sorts on how Earth 52 develops after it diverges from Earth 0. I'm thinking in particular of the “five years from now” part; the further future is a potential future that Futures End prevents.

Gosh. Futures End was depressing, but it is designed to be the definitive future of New 52 so I guess that's where they'll end up.

I think The Titans are dead and Tim is the only survivor but then jumped forward to the future, Bruce is injured and has to use spine implant, Dick murdered KG Beast and was hanged by the Russian government, though Helena secretly used acid on the noose, Jason crawls in the gutters of Gotham as he lost Roy and Kori, Barbara lost her husband as his brother forced him to commit suicide, and then she got buff to fight Bane... well, at least she leads a team of Batgirls with Cass, Steph and Tamara Fox.

[Dataweaver]

Yeah, that's depressing. But it makes sense to me, as I've always found the New 52 to be depressing. But if you want a more hopeful take on Earth 52, remember that it's always darkest before the dawn. Follow the bad in Futures End with a better future beyond that.

[Ascended]

Lots of things actually.

To put it simply, New 52 before Lemire and Sorrentino was a mess, full of inconsistent directions based on the erratic nature of the New 52. Lemire arrived to the title with a clear idea though: Throw everything that came before away and make Green Arrow's universe bigger than ever. First they made Ollie's life hell by killing a couple people from his supporting cast, lose his fortune and get almost murdered by the recently created villain Komodo. Lemire also created Emiko who quickly became an important member of Ollie's supporting cast (although she was never as good as when Lemire wrote her) and the Outsiders (not to be confused with Batman's Outsiders) who were clans based on weapons and were sadly ignored by Percy (probably for the better though).

At first glance you could see that Lemire's influences were from Mike Grell's run due to the sorta grim and gritty tone and he also mentions it but actually I would say that his book has more in common with Golden Age Green Arrow because of the adventure tone and the worldbuilding he provided. In that sense, it was the most promising and expansive Green Arrow run of all time.

I dont know if I'd say its the most expansive GA run of *all time* but it's most definitely on the list.

The biggest take away from Lemire, I think, was the different clans based around particular weapons. That was an intriguing idea and went a real long way to explaining why this guy is in the DCU fighting with a bow and arrow. And of course, Emiko was a big addition that has clearly out lived the weapon clan idea, but I don't think she's terribly original; more just an amalgamation of Connor, Shado, and Mia. Which is awesome, I like Emiko, but it wasn't new territory like the clans were.

A lot of everything else Lemire did, like Ollie losing his company and fortune, was more like bringing the IP back to a semi-recognizable state than it was building something truly new.

New52 Ollie is weird. In so many ways it was a modern version of the Golden Age Arrow, where Ollie was basically just Batman with a different gimmick and color scheme, but it failed to "feel" like a "return of the OG" and certainly didn't feel like the Ollie we've come to know since the 60's.

[Thor-Ul]

I remember than someone proposed than earth 1985 it was a cluster of universes, a minor multiverse, so to speak. The idea seemed strange to me, even if I understand the logic to keep the history of earth 1985(earth 1) with the original earth 2 and their inter-universes jumpings. But it have merit enough to be considered a possibility.
That made me think than a potential earth 52 also hadthe possibility of generate its own cluster of universes, derived from its own accidental existence. I included these posibilities here:

-Earth 52-prime: the basic principal earth seen in the early numbers of the new52. Or the essential new52, so to speak.

-Earth 52-2: The earth 2 of the new52. If we are going to return to the classic, golden age earth 2, then, displace this version on its own cluster.

-Earth 52-3: This one was tricky. I mean, the new-52 versions of the crime syndicate have seen survivng the reboot and be an stablished concept post Rebirth/DDC, as seen in Hell Arisen. So, how
better if another dark twist is presented here. So, I propose earth 52-3 as the home of the Rotworld, a universe where the grey, the force opposed to the red and the green won.

-Earth 52-4: This would be the post-apocaliptic future as seen in Futures End, where everybody is a robot zombie under the control of Brother Eye.

-Earth 52-5: This other earth is the universe new52 as seen on DCYou. I still see that era as different because it have several differents take on the characters at the same time. You got a Jim Gordon Batman, a powerless Superman, a outlaw Green Lantern and so. But basically, something like take a trend and proyecting from that point instead of returnt to the previous status.

These are the ones I could think of. Any other ideas?

[Mr.B]

Future's Ends can just be alt future timeline split off from Earth 52. Can also ignore the Earth 2 parts.