X-men #4 Preview

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I ageee that it’s a problem, but I have less issue if that problem is part of the narrative and will be addressed in the story. X and Mags have certainly given off lots of entitled, straight white male/ok boomer vibes, and I feel like it might be intentional. Maybe I’m giving Hickman too much credit given his track record, but I hope not.

I understand the idea that they want to be "intimidating" or whatever and the story is the story and it's at the writer's discretion, but I think it's important to shade and highlight any time when optics are exclusionary.

While I have not problem with that, are they accounting for that Jean is essentially heading up X-Force in addition to being on the Council?

This isn't entirely relevant, but she has actually been stated to NOT be one of the leaders of X-Force. Those are ostensibly and nominally Beast and Wolverine.

[numberthirty]

...

This isn't entirely relevant, but she has actually been stated to NOT be one of the leaders of X-Force. Those are ostensibly and nominally Beast and Wolverine.

While I would agree with that being how it has been laid out, read through the issues that we have so far.

Who, after reading them, would tell you that Beast is heading things up and not Jean?

[numberthirty]

One other thing about the "Optics..." component -

While I get that lots of folks look at it and see "Just Men...", I think that it's important to look at the context that it happens in.

The most likely "Optic..." that they are trying to impress upon folks is "FYI... I Am Not Dead."

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

While I would agree with that being how it has been laid out, read through the issues that we have so far.

Who, after reading them, would tell you that Beast is heading things up and not Jean?

The org didn't even exist until the last issue, right? And Jean isn't going to be the one of the shot callers directing the group.That's not to say Jean hasn't been a presence in the book, but the leadership responsibilities are with the two hairballs.

[GeneTitan]

****No Spoilers****
The reason for it being only Cyclops and Gorgon with Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse is explicitly explained in one of the data pages. There is a very specific reason why those male characters were chosen. Let's let Hickman work and enjoy the ride.

[Tycon]

One of the many things I love about Krakoa is that we get these fun sequences like Gorgon and Cyclops being on such pacifistic terms that the latter can comically tell an aggressor not to underestimate the former. It’s one of those things you’d expect from two acquaintances who recognize each others power and it shows just how much the mutant state has changed things on the board.

[AbnormallyNormal]

One of the many things I love about Krakoa is that we get these fun sequences like Gorgon and Cyclops being on such pacifistic terms that the latter can comically tell an aggressor not to underestimate the former. It’s one of those things you’d expect from two acquaintances who recognize each others power and it shows just how much the mutant state has changed things on the board.

I like it too but I just wish it felt better motivated it kind of comes out of nowhere and so it's "easy come easy go" and fails to make an impression on the skeptics as much.

Like you're not actually gonna get many folks to go "wow Gorgon's not so bad I suppose"? Maybe some of us will be that way but idk.

Apoc's arc in Excalibur is different, he's given time and focus to get a new perspective. So yeah more stuff like that is the way to go if Hickman wants folks to really accept "villain-hero alliances". Or maybe we need to see who the "truly villainous villains" are like what happened with Sabretooth and what may start happening with Sinister. Then the other "villains" may get more accepted or at least tolerated by fans.

****No Spoilers****
The reason for it being only Cyclops and Gorgon with Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse is explicitly explained in one of the data pages. There is a very specific reason why those male characters were chosen. Let's let Hickman work and enjoy the ride.

Yeah as far as "why dudes" for me, the thing with Xavier Magneto and Apocalypse had already been laid out. They are the 3 biggest leaders of Krakoa overall (besides Moira whose very existence is a secret so she is unable to do any true leadership). And they are making up a "Season" on the Council together. So... that's why they are the ones who would "represent" Krakoa if only 3 were picked. So now we shift the question of possible sexism to "why are the 3 biggest leaders all males" I guess but honestly I'm not sure you could argue a female character should replace any of those 3 as mutantkind's like "strongest ideologues" or whatever. Jean, Storm, Emma don't really have a solid ideology which they have developed and pushed for over time, UNLIKE Xavier Magneto and Apocalypse. The question of could a bodyguard be a female is a lot stronger or why not send more than just 3 representatives is another good question. But again Cyclops is there because this is "his" book and this is Gorgon's FIRST appearance in Dawn of X and he is supposed to be a Captain, so it's not like he's getting overexposed or anything, kinda the total opposite. We NEEDED Gorgon at some point to show up.

I fully agree with Emma/Raven/Jean/Storm/Kate being representatives of mutantkind and in general ought to be there at important missions. Remember Emma WAS at one earlier though.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yeah as far as "why dudes" for me, the thing with Xavier Magneto and Apocalypse had already been laid out. They are the 3 biggest leaders of Krakoa overall (besides Moira whose very existence is a secret so she is unable to do any true leadership). And they are making up a "Season" on the Council together. So... that's why they are the ones who would "represent" Krakoa if only 3 were picked. So now we shift the question of possible sexism to "why are the 3 biggest leaders all males" I guess but honestly I'm not sure you could argue a female character should replace any of those 3 as mutantkind's like "strongest ideologues" or whatever. Jean, Storm, Emma don't really have a solid ideology which they have developed and pushed for over time, UNLIKE Xavier Magneto and Apocalypse. The question of could a bodyguard be a female is a lot stronger or why not send more than just 3 representatives is another good question. But again Cyclops is there because this is "his" book and this is Gorgon's FIRST appearance in Dawn of X and he is supposed to be a Captain, so it's not like he's getting overexposed or anything, kinda the total opposite. We NEEDED Gorgon at some point to show up.

I fully agree with Emma/Raven/Jean/Storm/Kate being representatives of mutantkind and in general ought to be there at important missions. Remember Emma WAS at one earlier though.

I agree completely, that`s the real problem imo neither Jean, Emma, Storm or Kitty have a defined ideology or even an approach to goverment that has been developed, of them the closest would be 80`s Storm who changed a little the X-men approach to the mutant issue when she was leader of the X-men by making alliances with her former enemies like the Hellfire Club and fully accepting Magneto while the 05 would not have any of it, sadly, in recent years while we certainly could see her as Queen of Wakanda she was presented more like a love interest for Tchalla than a Queen with a fully formed ideology or political approach towards either Wakanda or mutants in general.

The problem isn`t really lack of female presence or power because the X-men have always had powerful female members in their numbers, the problem is their lack of political approach towards mutantkind because most of them have been written as either followers of Xavier or the Hellfire Club.

Mystique also could be an exception with her freedom force but just like Storm, that was a long time ago imo for her to work as a mutant ideologue today she would have to be developed as one and not just be written as a sociopath.

[Gladiator]

Respectfully, I’d argue that Storm has more reputable public status than any of the others, as former queen of Wakanda and member of the FF and the Avengers. She also has more practical experience than any of them in this particular context. If there is a logical story reason behind it as many of us suspect, then fine. That’s fair enough. If not, bias is at play and warrants a conversation at the very least. That doesn’t mean we all boycott the book, but Hickman does love writing arrogant men to the detriment of everyone else. It’s at least worth a conversation.

I haven’t read the issue, but I don’t think Xavier is going for “reputable” exactly. I think it’s more of a “Look, I have these world enders in suits playing nice.” He’s showing mutant unity. Storm is generally seen as good. She could vaporize someone in the blink of an eye, but she’s not going to. Most of the MU knows that. Even in a fight one would wake up in the hospital with all of his/her body parts. There’s less of a flex.

And Hickman does write arrogant men. I don’t see that as a plus for males. “There Tony and Steve f—-ng things up again. Oh, look at Reed being a moron.” Now we have Xavier and Mags following the same path.

I still have my fingers crossed for an Emma, Selene, Storm, Jean, 23, and Psylocke book where they’re just curb stomping baddies. One can dream.

My phone keeps generating these damn ‘a’ symbols when I post.

[Wolverine12]

****No Spoilers****
The reason for it being only Cyclops and Gorgon with Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse is explicitly explained in one of the data pages. There is a very specific reason why those male characters were chosen. Let's let Hickman work and enjoy the ride.

Just one more reason I love the data pages!

[Gladiator]

While I would agree with that being how it has been laid out, read through the issues that we have so far.

Who, after reading them, would tell you that Beast is heading things up and not Jean?

Agreed, Jean’s running X-Force; title or not. Hank and Logan aren’t doing anything without running it by Jean. We saw what happened to QQ and Wolvie��.

[Lucyinthesky]

Jean also was in charge of getting Charles back to life Hank was just following her, she will keep having a strong presence on the title imo.

[loke13]

Respectfully, I’d argue that Storm has more reputable public status than any of the others, as former queen of Wakanda and member of the FF and the Avengers. She also has more practical experience than any of them in this particular context. If there is a logical story reason behind it as many of us suspect, then fine. That’s fair enough. If not, bias is at play and warrants a conversation at the very least. That doesn’t mean we all boycott the book, but Hickman does love writing arrogant men to the detriment of everyone else. It’s at least worth a conversation.

Yeah but it doesn't really carry the same weight of intimidation which is the main point here. She may have been Queen for a day but she largely played second fiddle to T'challa. And her ties to FF and Avengers are largely irrelevant here.

[JB]

One of the many things I love about Krakoa is that we get these fun sequences like Gorgon and Cyclops being on such pacifistic terms that the latter can comically tell an aggressor not to underestimate the former. It’s one of those things you’d expect from two acquaintances who recognize each others power and it shows just how much the mutant state has changed things on the board.

This. These subtleties have been priceless and I fully recognize them.

[JB]

No women? Is this Krakoa or the U.S. conservative party?

But at least there are girls on the Council.

Kinda hoping this was in jest otherwise it’s the most uninformed comment of 2019. Odd coming from someone who usually argues for diversity. I’m a gay male independent and though I may not agree with them politically, I’m extremely proud, and well aware, of the number of women currently in place. Many of which, like the CIA Director, are the first women in their roles. Aurealia Skipwith is the first African American woman in her role. You may be pleasantly surprised by the list and there have been more appointed since the article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roslynl.../#4a0302b250e1

It would be a major disservice to brush these women off.