The JSA Back On Main Earth

[achilles]

I'd add that at times, the JSA title has been among DC's biggest sellers, so this is not really a minor thing. This is a title that has proven itself to be popular in the past, so it behoves DC and WB to handle this properly.

[Sandy Hausler]

I agree. I don't think the JSA should be the same guys who were active in 1940. If they're to be in the continuity of the main Earth the current 2020 JSA should be entirely new faces, cept Wonder Woman and maybe Jay Garrick who ages slower due to the Speed Force. Jade is Alan's legacy, just like Courtney and/or Jack is Ted Knight's legacy- but Alan and Ted have both been dead for years. The OG guys are only for "untold tales of the Justice Society" or alive in the memories of their kin/people inspired by them.

I'd like to limit the actual number of kin, too. The current JSA can be manned by grandchildren and those who were inspired by the original Justice Society, as well as new folks.

I would expect that Dr. Fate and maybe Green Lantern would also not age or at least not age as quickly as a normal person. Magic does that. (maybe Johny Thunder, too, but I'd be against the Thunderbolt deaging the whole team!)

[Lee]

The problem with that argument is that the most iconic versions of Superman and Batman now have them starting with the JLA not with the JSA. However, the JSA characters are still iconic in their own right and have large fanbases. Shunting them off to a separate Earth would likely mean that we'd rarely, if ever, see them. What, would they just pop up for a yearly adventure with the JLA and then disappear again like in the Pre-Crisis days? Or would it be just like the New 52, where they're in one title that will eventually be cancelled? Even then it wasn't officially them, but younger, less popular versions.

If my years of following comics have taught me anything, its that no matter how popular an alt-universe take on a character is, people won't necessarily invest in something in the long-term if its not part of the "main universe continuity." That's why Marvel folded Miles into the main Marvel U.

Alternate universes will only feel unimportant if they're treated as unimportant.

Today's alternate universe titles have the reputation of not mattering because they don't feature the "real deal" characters and aren't designed for the long haul. Pre-Crisis, this wasn't the case. Earth-2 had the real deal Wildcat, Sandman, Starman, Huntress, Jade, Alan Scott, Jay Garrick etc. Their stories had the same ongoing serial nature as the Earth-1 characters, with no end in sight. The JLA probably interacted with the JSA more frequently than they did fellow Earth-1 heroes like Doom Patrol or Teen Titans. Earth-2, its characters and its stories were very much a part of DC continuity, in a way the Elseworlds of the 1990s weren't.

[Frontier]

Alternate universes will only feel unimportant if they're treated as unimportant.

Today's alternate universe titles have the reputation of not mattering because they don't feature the "real deal" characters and aren't designed for the long haul. Pre-Crisis, this wasn't the case. Earth-2 had the real deal Wildcat, Sandman, Starman, Huntress, Jade, Alan Scott, Jay Garrick etc. Their stories had the same ongoing serial nature as the Earth-1 characters, with no end in sight. The JLA probably interacted with the JSA more frequently than they did fellow Earth-1 heroes like Doom Patrol or Teen Titans. Earth-2, its characters and its stories were very much a part of DC continuity, in a way the Elseworlds of the 1990s weren't.

Yeah, the Big Two have kind of engendered the idea that AU's don't matter as much as the "main" Universe.

Look at what Marvel does with all their popular AU characters. They just bring them over to the main continuity.

[SiegePerilous02]

There's a far greater chance of that happening if they're on a separate Earth.

I agree that at this point, at least under the current management, that that would be the case. Like Frontier said, at this point the Big Two have engendered the idea that the alternaute universe's don't count. Of course the idea of a "canon" where some fictional stories matter more than other fictional stories is just a marketing gimmick to buy more crap

Once upon a time though they weren't ignored while they were on Earth-2 and actually had a better shot at being treated as equal to the JLA whenever the teamed up.

For the most part, it's still the same now. The only difference is she's now a refugee from a destroyed universe as well. There are characters with far more complicated backstories that don't get half as many complaints.


I really think you are overestimating how confusing this can be. I had little to no problems understanding Karen's backstory when I was introduced to her and the wikipedia page is pretty easy to follow.

IDK, I freely admit it's a personal thing and may even be a mild form of OCD lol. For me if it doesn't at least broadly match how things were originally published, it feels off and disruptive/distracting. Especially in the case of Donna Troy when I read NTT, where her story stops making sense halfway through. You go from having easy stories where she's Diana's adopted sister and easily teams up with Hippolyta and the Amazons. Later on you have to mentally edit out Diana and Hippolyta from her wedding, despite the fact that they are on the printed page and provided some of the best scenes in that issue.

I feel that there would be less of a problem if they just did a complete reboot and chucked out everything. But they never seem to want to do that, and it creates messes to varying degrees of intensity. It's not even that all the stuff they disrupt or erase is necessarily good, it's just the principle of the thing that is annoying and is like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly

[Stingo]

I would expect that Dr. Fate and maybe Green Lantern would also not age or at least not age as quickly as a normal person. Magic does that. (maybe Johny Thunder, too, but I'd be against the Thunderbolt deaging the whole team!)

All of the hand-wringing going on about what to do about the individual ages of the surviving JSA members is humorous in light of the fact that we're talking about a fictional comic book universe where "normal" human rules do not apply. Does the 1938/World War Two timeline really take fans out of the adventures of the JSA? If so, I would advise against picking up titles such as Superman and Flash where logic as we know it in our day to day lives is temporarily suspended so that we can believe a man can fly and a man can race through time.

My bigger concern regarding the Justice Society of America at the moment is the seeming lack of momentum at DC to bring the team back in an ongoing. Rebirth was a wonderful boon to these classic characters, but over three years later we are still sans any significant and proper return of the Society. In a world where other popular media has embraced and is embracing the very first super-team (looking at you, television and film) the lack of urgency from DC to even announce anything coming in the near future about the group, let alone put said announcement into action, is disturbing and shortsighted.

[achilles]

All of the hand-wringing going on about what to do about the individual ages of the surviving JSA members is humorous in light of the fact that we're talking about a fictional comic book universe where "normal" human rules do not apply. Does the 1938/World War Two timeline really take fans out of the adventures of the JSA? If so, I would advise against picking up titles such as Superman and Flash where logic as we know it in our day to day lives is temporarily suspended so that we can believe a man can fly and a man can race through time.

My bigger concern regarding the Justice Society of America at the moment is the seeming lack of momentum at DC to bring the team back in an ongoing. Rebirth was a wonderful boon to these classic characters, but over three years later we are still sans any significant and proper return of the Society. In a world where other popular media has embraced and is embracing the very first super-team (looking at you, television and film) the lack of urgency from DC to even announce anything coming in the near future about the group, let alone put said announcement into action, is disturbing and shortsighted.

Yes, I'm concerned there isn't any announcement about a JSA title, or indeed any JSA character titles. And wow, what a weak way to reintroduce them, in a story mostly about how great Superman is. What is DC planning to do with them, and when?

[Tzigone]

All of the hand-wringing going on about what to do about the individual ages of the surviving JSA members is humorous in light of the fact that we're talking about a fictional comic book universe where "normal" human rules do not apply. Does the 1938/World War Two timeline really take fans out of the adventures of the JSA? If so, I would advise against picking up titles such as Superman and Flash where logic as we know it in our day to day lives is temporarily suspended so that we can believe a man can fly and a man can race through time.

It's not the same thing. They have particular reasons they can do those things. Sure, they are scientific nonsense, but within the fiction, it makes sense (JSA has explanations, but it really doesn't stand up when subsequent generations exist). The JSA does not for me because within the fiction, they'd have to outlive everyone close to them - and that should have emotional consequences within the fiction. Also, because everyone would notice them never dying unless they moved and changed identities every 10-15 years. I don't want them to be like Highlander characters. And there's still the problem of them displacing Superman as first, which I am not okay with at all. And the same-name ones who now look like they went the stolen-glory route and robbed more famous heroes of the code-names. When they were created, they were (mostly) originals within their own realities, and they've been reduced to in-universe copycats.

[CaptCleghorn]

And these posts are more proof of my JSA = pizza analogy. We all want the JSA back and we all want pizza. But when it come time to pick out toppings for the pizza or details on which Earth and timejumps, we often disagree. I get the posts espousing those aspects I'd rather not see. That's OK. The arguments and support given are valid and logicl. But for these things, it often just comes down to "I like this way better."

Me, personally, I'm for an Earth 2 JSA where they don't need a timejump as the years don't have to match up. If the JSA is on the main Earth, then I think jumping them to a point about 30 years in the past would allow them to age, reconnect with their civilian lives and raise families. But that's what I'd like to see. And ultimately, that's all we really have.

[Lee]

Me, personally, I'm for an Earth 2 JSA where they don't need a timejump as the years don't have to match up. If the JSA is on the main Earth, then I think jumping them to a point about 30 years in the past would allow them to age, reconnect with their civilian lives and raise families. But that's what I'd like to see. And ultimately, that's all we really have.

As in their origins are 30 years ago? Or their origins are in the 1940s and they time travel to "30 years ago"?

The longer the time gap between the 1940s and present becomes, the bigger of a problem the JSA becomes.

[achilles]

I don't know why so many here seem to have a problem with the JSA's ages. It's comics, guys! No on has a problem with the same characters being able to bench press a planet, or wish people away to another dimension, or move at super speed....and they have a problem with some characters from the 30s still being alive and fairly young, even though several plausible by comic book standards explanations have been given for all the surviving older characters being that young. Save of course for the ones who did die over the years.

It's comics, guys! Diana is some sort of god, Superman's an alien who will live for thousands of years, Batman is somehow a force among these characters despite being completely human, Luthor is a real threat when logically, he'd stand no chance against really any superpowered hero. But we all accept that, because those things are perfectly valid in the genre, where impossible stuff happens all the time.

[Tzigone]

I don't know why so many here seem to have a problem with the JSA's ages. It's comics, guys! No on has a problem with the same characters being able to bench press a planet, or wish people away to another dimension, or move at super speed....and they have a problem with some characters from the 30s still being alive and fairly young, even though several plausible by comic book standards explanations have been given for all the surviving older characters being that young. Save of course for the ones who did die over the years.

Yes, we do. Several reasons. Firstly, super strength and speed and so forth are ideas so old they are entrenched to me, while the non-aging isn't. Moreso even, because it's not part of the basic premise of these characters, but added much later (likewise, them being on same earth as Barry, Hal, etc.). Secondly, as I have said, those powers make sense in-universe in a way that works for me. The non-aging doesn't because of their kids (and those kids' ages) and everyone else in their lives and the emotional consequences that would result and change tone. Thirdly, because they weren't always stuck debuting in the 1940s (see Larry Lance's tombstone), and I don't think it necessary that they not timeslide like every other character did. Though I accept that one easily enough because it matters so much to their actual fans. But if I accept it, I cannot like them on the same earth as the others - it screws up the other people that I like more.

And non-aging still doesn't resolve the other issues I have with them being on the same earth (I think Superman should be first, and that it diminishes the same-names in universe to have them take those names without permission or even with permission).

It's comics, guys! Diana is some sort of god, Superman's an alien who will live for thousands of years, Batman is somehow a force among these characters despite being completely human, Luthor is a real threat when logically, he'd stand no chance against really any superpowered hero. But we all accept that, because those things are perfectly valid in the genre, where impossible stuff happens all the time.

I actually deeply dislike the first two you listed and don't want them as canon. And, while I like them capable, I hate both Batgod and Lexgod.

[Lee]

I don't know why so many here seem to have a problem with the JSA's ages. It's comics, guys! No on has a problem with the same characters being able to bench press a planet, or wish people away to another dimension, or move at super speed....and they have a problem with some characters from the 30s still being alive and fairly young, even though several plausible by comic book standards explanations have been given for all the surviving older characters being that young. Save of course for the ones who did die over the years.

It's comics, guys! Diana is some sort of god, Superman's an alien who will live for thousands of years, Batman is somehow a force among these characters despite being completely human, Luthor is a real threat when logically, he'd stand no chance against really any superpowered hero. But we all accept that, because those things are perfectly valid in the genre, where impossible stuff happens all the time.

All fiction has its parameters. If a bullet bounces off of Superman's head, the reader knows it's because Superman is a super strong and resilient alien. If a bullet bounces off of Lois Lane's head, that requires an explanation. The Justice Society have been missing from the DC Universe for so long, DC needs to re-establish how they fit into it, and which previous explanations for their longevity - if any - are still valid.

[achilles]

I'd say immortality is a pretty old concept. Even in comics.

[achilles]

All fiction has its parameters. If a bullet bounces off of Superman's head, the reader knows it's because Superman is a super strong and resilient alien. If a bullet bounces off of Lois Lane's head, that requires an explanation. The Justice Society have been missing from the DC Universe for so long, DC needs to re-establish how they fit into it, and which previous explanations for their longevity - if any - are still valid.

Oh, yeah sure re-establish the JSA, they all need that stuff stated after such a long break. But that's not really hard, just pick which things you want.