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  1. #46
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I have to say my favorite recent Superman stories have been Elseworlds, Mini-series, or 1 shots. Tom King has a great feel for the character. Up In The Sky is my favorite recent run. I also have to admit that Injustice Superman has won me over! I think writing any story is tough but the idea that Superman is aspirational isn't one of the characters problems. Every Superhero is aspirational. I like the idea that Superman is the "perfect" human. I think that creates unique challenges for the character that make him so distinct from anyone else. That doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes, he is surrounded by imperfect beings that he idolizes and loves, just like most of us actually. I like Superman stories to be big and cosmic. I think that still leaves room for stories about human connection. I just read the most recent Mike Allred run on the Silver Surfer and Silver Surfer Black by Danny Cates and Tradd Moore. (Jason Aaron's Superman run cobs quite a bit from All Star Superman too!) Both of those books remind me of weird late sixties Superman stories. I wish the current books were more weird and that's one reason I love Morrison, Millars, and Alan Moore's Superman. I know they wallow in 60's nostalgia but they push the sci-fi all the way and still land the human moments.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    I have to say my favorite recent Superman stories have been Elseworlds, Mini-series, or 1 shots. Tom King has a great feel for the character. Up In The Sky is my favorite recent run. I also have to admit that Injustice Superman has won me over! I think writing any story is tough but the idea that Superman is aspirational isn't one of the characters problems. Every Superhero is aspirational. I like the idea that Superman is the "perfect" human. I think that creates unique challenges for the character that make him so distinct from anyone else. That doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes, he is surrounded by imperfect beings that he idolizes and loves, just like most of us actually. I like Superman stories to be big and cosmic. I think that still leaves room for stories about human connection. I just read the most recent Mike Allred run on the Silver Surfer and Silver Surfer Black by Danny Cates and Tradd Moore. (Jason Aaron's Superman run cobs quite a bit from All Star Superman too!) Both of those books remind me of weird late sixties Superman stories. I wish the current books were more weird and that's one reason I love Morrison, Millars, and Alan Moore's Superman. I know they wallow in 60's nostalgia but they push the sci-fi all the way and still land the human moments.
    Same. All superheroes are weird to a degree, but Superman had a unique weirdness all his own. He could out crazy the entire Marvel universe by himself.
    Take away all the weirdness and crazy characters and locations from his lore, you run the risk of streamlining him down too much and not really leaving anything to exciting or unique on its own. A lot of this stuff needs to be balanced and work in tandem to produce the best possible versions of the character. At times in history they skew too heavily with making him fantastical and OTT, other times they go in the opposite direction.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I watched a bit of the video, but the answer is honestly no.

    In my mind, the best way to challenge a morally good character like Superman is by putting him up against opponents or challenges that are in direct contrast to him and that rub up against who Superman is. You don't have to change Superman to make him more grey, you just have to put him up against things that challenge who Superman is and what he does. If it is done well, it can make for a good story.

    And the truth is all of Superman's stories don't have to be like this, he can fight threats that are black and white, but a balance and doing both well is a good way of writing Superman well.
    Well, that is a big part of what the video was about.

  4. #49
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I think it's hard writing a character that is a moral compass of sorts for all other characters, while also so powerful that him battling villains like Toyman or Prankster seems ridiculous, and therefore those characters have more or less
    I would say the problem with seeming ridiculous is that it's assumed to be a bad thing. Seeming ridiculous is a pretty significant part of his design, and I think it's important to figure out how that works instead of putting him in the modern mold. And it can work. Pick any two shows from any Adult Swim line up and I promise you a pretty ridiculous aspect of appeal for at least one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gerard View Post
    I don’t think that’s a problem of plot so much as it is of editing.

    A merciless editor could get all four Reeve movies into one at under 2 hours and 30 minutes and THAT’S a movie that would impress modern audiences.
    You can make them faster, but they would still be pretty old. WW 1984 is quite well seeded, but I tend to feel sorry for the superhero movies that have to land after Endgame. Coming from decades before, even repackaged... yikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post

    And no I haven't watched OP's video yet, but I thought it was another video at first.
    ... Haha, it won't hurt if people watch this video. No, it doesn't say anything particularly new, but the way the points are laid out can make you think.
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  5. #50
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    I don't think Superman is hard to write if you like and understand his motivations as a character and if you like him. It requires a kind of writer with lots of imagination and kindness and compassion for everything that's good in the world, imo.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Since we're talking about relatable Superman I want to list which Superman I find relatable
    - Morrison's Action Comics New 52 as someone who wants to do good and have fun while doing it because he has powers, fighting corruption for the people and building a new apartment but didn't know how tax and rent work so those poor people will inevitably be in debt by their landlord.
    - Tomasi's Superdad in Rebirth and Super Sons because all the powers you have in the world will not help against raising a child with the same powers, so he's basically just a dad in this context.
    - Lobdell's New 52 Superman who's fed up with Daily Planet selling out, rage quit and make a blog about real news (I never said the execution good, in fact, I hate most of his run, but that part is relatable)
    - American Alien Superman as a new boy to the city, trying to do good, don't know how, so he copies an existing superhero (Batman) and make it his own brand
    - That one moment in Superman Birthright where they're trying out disguises for Clark and he gets excited when his mom says he's so buff the girls won't leave him alone.
    - That one moment in Bendis run when Clark says to Jon that he always want to pop Batman head off (because he's tired of his drama goth bullshit, this last comment I got from Tumblr)
    - Basically every Batman and Superman moment, such as Clark likes to show up suddenly to surprise Batman, Clark suggesting Bats should say "banana muffin" as a secret code to call him if he's in trouble, Clark reprimands Bats to stop being so "Batman" in front of an innocent because it's scaring them...
    - Superman TAS meet Batman TAS for the first time and trying to outdo each other on being the most annoying

    I guess in conclusion, I find Young Superman, Bro Superman, and Dad Superman to be the most relatable and enjoyable
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 01-08-2020 at 08:55 PM.

  7. #52
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    My favorite might be the Friendly Neighborhood Superman approach where he's pretty accessible, like in the day in the life issue of All Star Superman, and in Superman Smashes The Klan.

  8. #53
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    Hmmmmmm. I recall several writers talking about the difficulty of writing superpowered characters in general and Supes, WW, and Supergirl in particular. The main issues they cited were difficulty challenging the hero; the lack 9f drama from any scenario due to the fact that the hero would always prove strong enough or fast enough; and infallible heroes being boring. In Supergirl's case I remember specifically that PAD's very first decision was to get rid of a host of her powers, with special emphasis on invisibility.

    At first I was annoyed because Matrix Supergirl was the first time I had a sustained interest in the character and the variety of powers andvhow different they were from Clark was a selling point for me. However, it turned out that the Linda Danvers Supergirl ended up being my favorite print version ever.

    Do I think Supes is hard to write? Only in the sense that the character has not only been in publication for close to a century but often in multiple books pretty much ensures that most scenarios the average person would think of have already been depicted.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Hmmmmmm. I recall several writers talking about the difficulty of writing superpowered characters in general and Supes, WW, and Supergirl in particular. The main issues they cited were difficulty challenging the hero; the lack of drama from any scenario due to the fact that the hero would always prove strong enough or fast enough; and infallible heroes being boring.
    This is where I have to ask if those writers are stuck with the thinking that their story has to be about a supervillain.

    Part of the problem I think is the Superfamily was not created for a story about overcoming a personal challenge but to solve other people's problems, but present-day superhero comics are defined by hero vs villain, hero vs hero, villain vs villain, it's about the fighting.

    I think Tomasi said he had a problem pitching one Superdad or Super Sons story because it's about family and the editor kept asking "where is the villain?"

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    This is where I have to ask if those writers are stuck with the thinking that their story has to be about a supervillain.

    Part of the problem I think is the Superfamily was not created for a story about overcoming a personal challenge but to solve other people's problems, but present-day superhero comics are defined by hero vs villain, hero vs hero, villain vs villain, it's about the fighting.

    I think Tomasi said he had a problem pitching one Superdad or Super Sons story because it's about family and the editor kept asking "where is the villain?"
    "slice of life" stories in DC are a great change of pace.

  11. #56
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    My favorite might be the Friendly Neighborhood Superman approach where he's pretty accessible, like in the day in the life issue of All Star Superman, and in Superman Smashes The Klan.
    I agree those are great takes on his character (All Star Superman being my favorite Superman focused or related series/story of all time).
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Cape books have the issue that Editoral cant wrap their heads around issues that dont involve punching

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