Will Disney ever have true LGBTQ representation in their movies?

[AndrewCrossett]

China and Russia need to make their own damn movies and stop ruining ours.

[AnakinFlair]

Well if its TV shows they have Gay characters in The Runaways.

I thought Valkryie was that gay character they talked about before Endgame. She didnt do anything sexual but I coulda swore they confirmed she is gay. And Love and Thundrr was gonna be about her finding a queen.

And the comics followed suite on that.

There was a brief snippet when Loki uses the mind trick on her to make her relive her past that would've showed her walking out of another woman's room, pretty obviously after having slept together. That got cut from the movie. Tessa Thompson also went on record that she thought that the blond Valkyrie we specifically see getting killed by Hela in that flashback was her character's lover and acted the scene as such -- although that idea was never adopted by the Powers That Be. So, technically, Valkyrie's orientation is undetermined, but there's nothing to disprove it either.

So Thompson has said, but it remains to be seen if that is on the drawing board or just her expressing her hopes, much less if it makes it into the final draft/cut of the movie. Personally, I'd like to see her and a powered-up Jane get together in the movie. Probably won't happen (seems unlikely that they would bring Jane back and not having her go back to Thor, despite how flaccid the relationship actually was), but I think you could get some story mileage out of it.

I'm talking specifically in movies. Yes, Runaways has done that (and actually the show followed the comic's example, though Karolina and Nico never got together in the original run of the comics), but that's on TV and that show has been canceled anyways.

As for Valkryie- her orientation has been implied outside of the movies, but never stated explicitly in the movies. I suppose we'll have to see what happens in Love and Thunder.

The Star Wars books and comics have also introduced several other LGBT characters apart from Aphra and Tolvan.

Amanda Lawrence who played D'arcy in the Star Wars sequels, although presumably not gay herself as she has a male partner, has also appeared in several LGBT themed plays in America and Britain. Not sure about Vinette Robinson who plays her wife.

Again, I'm talking about in the movies as a major character, not just background supporting characters that they can throw into a scene so they can say "Look! We have gay people in space!"

And the ancillary material like books and comics means nothing to the producers of the movies. Occasionally they will cherry pick ideas from the books, but they aren't beholden to them.

Have you seen the ratings for those CW shows. They are watched by 2 to 3 million people at most. If you are spending $150 to $200 million on a movie before even advertising expenses you will need a lot more people to see your movies than that to make money. So it will be a stupid risk to do so unless someone else wants to go first to show that it will work in movies. Having said that they should cease making a big deal out of all this or just avoid it completely if all they are doing is putting in these throw away scenes.

I understand that the CW shows have smaller audiences. That's why I said it was less of a risk for DC and WB to include prominent Gay and Trans characters on those shows. And I know it's a big risk to try that with a major motion picture. I guess what I'm saying is they should have the balls to try it, since they are freaking Disney and they can afford an occasional bomb *cough"JohnCarter *cough*. And if they don't have the balls, stop making these big announcements about gay roles in movies that end up being nothing.

I haven't seen the live-action Beauty and the Beast but didn't they try this with Lefou? Although he's kind of one of the bad guys....

They did, and again it was a nothing bit near the end of the movie.

China and Russia need to make their own damn movies and stop ruining ours.

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, now that the market has been opened, no major company will dare upset China as long as they can make money over there. Just look at the NBA.

[Frontier]

I understand that the CW shows have smaller audiences. That's why I said it was less of a risk for DC and WB to include prominent Gay and Trans characters on those shows. And I know it's a big risk to try that with a major motion picture. I guess what I'm saying is they should have the balls to try it, since they are freaking Disney and they can afford an occasional bomb *cough"JohnCarter *cough*. And if they don't have the balls, stop making these big announcements about gay roles in movies that end up being nothing.

I'm really wondering how they're going to handle Renee Montoya in BoP, and how prominent her sexuality is going to be.

[Immortal Weapon]

I'm really wondering how they're going to handle Renee Montoya in BoP, and how prominent her sexuality is going to be.

Unless she has a love interest or flirting is part of her chemistry the cast I don't see it coming up.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

China and Russia need to make their own damn movies and stop ruining ours.

I really wonder if the international market is the reason Disney isn't adding gay characters because those scenes can easily be cut for countries where such depictions are not allowed.

Obviously, where being gay is the whole point of the story, then the movie itself couldn't be shown in those countries, but isn't that already the case? Looking at boxofficemojo.com, I don't see releases for Love, Simon in Russia, China, or the Middle East except for Israel.

Of course, there's a difference between Love, Simon and Avengers in terms of its importance to the studio's bottom line. And I think that's the real answer when it comes to Disney in particular. Since all Disney releases are tentpole blockbusters, they all have to be as middle-of-the-road as possible and appeal to the widest possible audience because Disney expects many of their releases to gross over a billion dollars at the box office.

Currently, Disney doesn't do things like release small budget artsy films. But this is why I bring up Love, Simon. That movie was released by 20th Century Fox, which Disney now owns. So, maybe Disney won't have gay characters in their next rehash of Aladdin or Pocahontas, but under the 20th Century Fox banner, there is now plenty of opportunity to do all kinds of movies and genres that Disney would never touch in the past -- not only gay-themed movies, but straight-up R-rated horror flicks, movies with strong sexual content (gay or straight or otherwise), etc.

Once Fox gets properly set up under Disney and the old inventory is cleared out, we may just be surprised at what Disney releases. However, gay themes under the tentpole brands of Disney, Marvel, Pixar, and Lucasfilm might never really happen except in the blink-and-you-miss-it way.

[WebLurker]

I'm talking specifically in movies. Yes, Runaways has done that (and actually the show followed the comic's example, though Karolina and Nico never got together in the original run of the comics), but that's on TV and that show has been canceled anyways.

Uh, Nico and Karolina were made a couple in the Rainbow Rowell revival of the series in 2017, the same year the TV show launched. Don't know where the idea came from but it wasn't from the original runs (I know, I've got the books).

As for Valkryie- her orientation has been implied outside of the movies, but never stated explicitly in the movies. I suppose we'll have to see what happens in Love and Thunder.

I think only in the movies "counts."

[trooper_thorn]

Disney will release one or two minor films/shows with gay characters to placate the identity politics crowd but will otherwise not give a damn.

These films/shows will be relatively low budget, probably nothing above $50M for a film (which is low for Disney) and for TV nothing with a budget higher than your typical CW garbage. Most likely these will be financed in such a way as to minimize risk should they go bust. Regardless of sales/viewership Disney will claim success.

The characters involved will be minor side-characters or no name D level characters from the comics. They will not be marketed to any serious degree outside of the US and Canada (and even that'll be minimal).

The people for whom this is a serious matter will be mollified by these scraps and will declare some sort of victory that will be completely ignored by the rest of society.

[basbash99]

As others have mentioned, the issue is international box office... while no doubt some conservatives in the U.S. would get their hackles up, Disney is mainly worried about their movies not being shown in markets like China, Singapore, etc. That said, if anyone is in a position to take a stand and incur that financial risk, it’s Disney. However their family friendly brand barely includes heterosexual romance (certainly not very much in the way of physical affection) so I’m not sure how soon they will get around to including gay characters for whom foreign censors couldn’t easily cut out dialogue and scenes that reference a character’s homosexuality.

[Immortal Weapon]

Uh, Nico and Karolina were made a couple in the Rainbow Rowell revival of the series in 2017, the same year the TV show launched. Don't know where the idea came from but it wasn't from the original runs (I know, I've got the books).



I think only in the movies "counts."

The idea did come from the original books. Karolina came out to Nico and wanted to be a couple but she was rejected. Same thing happened in the show with he difference being Nico not turning her down.

[AnakinFlair]

Uh, Nico and Karolina were made a couple in the Rainbow Rowell revival of the series in 2017, the same year the TV show launched. Don't know where the idea came from but it wasn't from the original runs (I know, I've got the books.

The idea did come from the original books. Karolina came out to Nico and wanted to be a couple but she was rejected. Same thing happened in the show with he difference being Nico not turning her down.

This. I was talking about the original run of Runaways, back in the early 2000's. Karolina came out to Nico, Nico turned her down, and Karolina ended up in a relationship with Xavin, a Skrull who shapeshifted into a female form for her.

I haven't read much of the new books. I really don't follow many Marvel comics outside of Spider-Gwen.

[WebLurker]

This. I was talking about the original run of Runaways, back in the early 2000's. Karolina came out to Nico, Nico turned her down, and Karolina ended up in a relationship with Xavin, a Skrull who shapeshifted into a female form for her.

I haven't read much of the new books. I really don't follow many Marvel comics outside of Spider-Gwen.

Yeah, well, in the current comics, like in the TV show, Nico and Karolina are now a couple. Can't say I really find it that interesting a plot development.

The idea did come from the original books. Karolina came out to Nico and wanted to be a couple but she was rejected. Same thing happened in the show with he difference being Nico not turning her down.

Sure, I remember that. Should've clarified; the idea of Nico reciprocating is not in the original runs, in fact, it's kinda a major point that she doesn't. That first came around in the revival and adjacent TV show.

[Vakanai]

China and Russia need to make their own damn movies and stop ruining ours.

Can't speak for Russia but China I know make their own movies. But that doesn't mean anything, there's money to be made.

[WebLurker]

Can't speak for Russia but China I know make their own movies. But that doesn't mean anything, there's money to be made.

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[Vakanai]

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You won't believe this but I just learned about that film after googling "foreign superhero movies" like half an hour ago.

[Sutekh]

I feel like Disney's calculus is less on what the Chinese market wants, so much as what half of America is still not comfortable with. Getting less money overseas is one thing. Getting Disney parks boycotted or having sign-swinging (armed) protesters outside the gates, yammering on about SJW nonesense or political correctness gone amok, the gay agenda, or gay mafia, or gay illuminati, or whatever bs they believe in this week, is another.

There's still some cultural divide between Florida (home of Disney) and, say, New York, or left coast cities like Seattle, San Francisco or Los Angeles.

It's not just money to be lost in the Chinese market, but also money to be lost *in the US market.*

That said, I'd love for them to say screw it, and just go wild with it, and maybe come to the shocking conclusion that this stuff can sell that came to those naysaying the marketability of a Wonder Woman movie or a Black Panther movie. Figures who argued that audiences didn't want to see movies about strong women (Avi Arad, Ike Perlmutter) have been pushed out of the way of this windfall. Maybe a successful movie with a gay lead will get some more old fogeys put out to pasture. But I'm not sure if Disney is going to be the one to do it.

It seems more likely they'll greenlight something smaller and 'easier to ignore' (and less splashed across other franchises, than, say, Spider Man or Dr. Strange), and if it blows up and makes all the money, finally get around to belatedly integrating that character into the wider MCU. (And if it *doesn't* make all the money, be used, like Catwoman and Elektra, both of which had flaws well beyond 'female led movie' as justification for why 'well, we tried, audiences didn't like it'.)