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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Also maybe don't destroy Bludhaven if Crisis hasn't happened because at that time Dick already got rid of Blockbuster, cleaned up the corrupt part of BPD, and after infiltrating the mafia managed to convince everyone to stay out of Bludhaven. It's supposed to be the end of the 90s dark era and the beginning of a new one where Bludhaven is safer.
    Wasn't the destruction of Bludhaven part of Infinite Crisis? That's clearly beyond the transition from Earth-τ to Earth-Δ. So yeah.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Pretty much, yeah. Personally, I would have called this Earth-τ (or Earth-tau), after the symbol for Proper Time in physics. But otherwise, I endorse this thread.

    As I've said elsewhere, the breakpoint between two eras is often fuzzy. I'd say that that's true here, too: I'd peg the beginning of the transition from Earth-Σ to Earth-τ at Armageddon-2001, and it gets finalized by Zero Hour. Many, if not most, of the characters introduced between 1991 and 1994 would exist on Earth-τ but not Earth-Σ; and the primary story arc that differentiates the two would be Death of Superman→Reign of the Supermen→Emerald Twilight→Zero Hour.

    At the other end, Earth-τ starts to become Earth-Δ right around 2001, and is in full swing by late 2003. I'd put Quiver as the first story that happens on Earth-Δ but not Earth-τ; though the main event that really gets the ball rolling is Titans/YJ: Graduation Day.

    Another reason why I like the “time” motif as part of this Earth's name is because 1991–2003 was a period of evolution for DC; where the eras before and after this period were rife with retcons, this era actually managed to maintain a reasonably consistent timeline; but that timeline was a very dynamic one. Start with the return of the JSA in 1991, only for them to be wiped out by Zero Hour — except that that was immediately followed up by Jack Knight's Starman that eventually lead to the rebirth of the JSA. The Justice League started out in the waning days off the JLI, which struggled on for a number of years before Morrison's JLA took over. the New Titans, likewise, were falling apart at the start of this era and were relaunched three times: once in the wake of Zero Hour, again when the Jurgens Teen Titans hit the scene, and one last time with JLA/Titans: the Technis Imperative. They got joined by a new team of kids that barely even existed as individuals at the start of the era: Young Justice.
    I agree about the "fuzzy" -ness about what was rolling out between 1994 to 2003. My only caveat was based upon the notion that 1994 was the start of the changes that were being made to the DCU, both in mechanics (i.e. the introduction of Hypertime) to individual origins (hence, issue #0, or even whole-sale reboots like SHAZAM!). And I also thought that this was the time when Superman was totally divested of having any connections with the Legion of Superheroes, having been replaced by Mon-El (or, "M'onel"). That's why I felt strongly in creating this thread (and, again, I used "Zed" as code for the Zero-Hour iteration). I know that I seem to be stepping on your toes about these discussions, and if I did, I do apologize. It's just that these sorts of discussion, particularly DDC#12 gotten me so...geeked out about it. But, by all means, this thread is yours (if that is even possible). Peace...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    I know that I seem to be stepping on your toes about these discussions, and if I did, I do apologize. It's just that these sorts of discussion, particularly DDC#12 gotten me so...geeked out about it. But, by all means, this thread is yours (if that is even possible). Peace...
    You are not. Flash Gordon and superduperman are just probably upset over to adding any Zero Hour or 90's into the mix of a thread topic you used here.

    And this is your thread as you're the one that made it. Not someone else.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    To the extent that anyone owns a thread, agreed. dswynne has nothing to apologize for, and no toes have been stepped on. I will say that just before I first posted to this thread, I had been getting ready to start a new one of my own that would have been called “Earth-τ: what would you like to see?”; but then I saw this thread which covers the same ground, so I went ahead and posted here. That said, the only reason I was thinking along those lines in the first place was due to dswynne's comments in the Earth-Σ thread.

    Really, my only quibble is with the name; and ultimately, that's not a big deal.
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  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    I agree about the "fuzzy" -ness about what was rolling out between 1994 to 2003. My only caveat was based upon the notion that 1994 was the start of the changes that were being made to the DCU, both in mechanics (i.e. the introduction of Hypertime) to individual origins (hence, issue #0, or even whole-sale reboots like SHAZAM!). And I also thought that this was the time when Superman was totally divested of having any connections with the Legion of Superheroes, having been replaced by Mon-El (or, "M'onel").
    On Earth-Σ, Superman wasn't connected to the Legion of Superheroes, and Valor was substituted for him as the modern-day inspiration for the Legion (Valor being the codenames that Mon-El was going with at the time). So that's not really a substantial difference between Earth-Σ and Earth-τ. The nature of the Legion that got inspired is very different, though; and as you say, the Shazam aspect of the DCU got a reboot.

    As for the #0 issues: unlike the #1 issues that came out at the start of the New 52, the vast majority of the #0 issues didn't actually redefine anything; they were “merely” issues designed to be jumping-on points, sales pitches to potential readers designed to tell them who these guys are, where they come from, and where they are now. All of the big changes had already happened by then, and Zero Hour (and the subsequent Zero Month) served to tie it all up into a pretty package. That's why I think of Zero Hour as the “end of the beginning” rather than as the whole of the beginning.

    But really, that distinction of the beginning spanning from Armageddon 2001 to Zero Hour affects Earth-Σ far more than it affects Earth-τ: all of the things in that 1991–1994 window happened on Earth-τ. My contention is that I'd prefer to say that they didn't happen on Earth-Σ, and that that's how to make the two Earths more distinct. But Earth-τ's history from 1986 to 1991 closely parallels Earth-Σ's history for the same span of time.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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