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  1. #4546
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I remember this, but I don't agree with it because that isn't what happened. Jean talked to Bobby privately about it. They could've come to the decision to keep it to themselves together, but Bobby chose to come out. It was on his own terms.
    Whether you agree with how the characters interpreted the events, is another issue but its acknowledged that she has her teen self's memories

  2. #4547
    Fantastic Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I remember this, but I don't agree with it because that isn't what happened. Jean talked to Bobby privately about it. They could've come to the decision to keep it to themselves together, but Bobby chose to come out. It was on his own terms.
    Ehh I kinda disagree because there are multiple ways to come out. Coming out to one friend or family member is sometimes way more important to people than publicly being out of the closet. Just cause it was a one-on-one conversation doesnít mean that Jeen didnít invade his privacy.

  3. #4548
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    The two big things that should have remained from Teen Jean: Jean as a field leader and Jean with what we call the "pink form". We had Jean as a leader in X-men Red and it was great for those of us who enjoyed the book. I guess you can make an argument that Jean is still a leader as she's on the QC but it is not the same as being a field leader.

    The pink form should have remained since it was a new aspect of her powers and could be used to make Jean stand out from the rest of the tp/tk characters.

    Teen Scott was used to show Adult Cyclops that he was wrong and no longer the Rightclops version, but other than that the teen's memories didn't seem to effect the others in a similar way. Which is sad because of all the teen characters the one that got the most focus and significance was Teen Jean. She should have had a big effect on Adult Jean.

  4. #4549
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Ehh I kinda disagree because there are multiple ways to come out. Coming out to one friend or family member is sometimes way more important to people than publicly being out of the closet. Just cause it was a one-on-one conversation doesn’t mean that Jeen didn’t invade his privacy.
    I don't see how it's any different than in real life a friend coming to you and asking you about it. I've had that happen to me before, and I mean, I don't feel like it was an invasion of privacy. It was a friend coming to another friend out of concern that they were lying to themselves, and them coming to the decision that she'd support him if he came out... to himself.

    I suppose that might come down to just personal feelings on the situation but it's definitely something that I don't believe needed to be addressed. It was Sina Grace bringing up a dead horse because he liked to pander to the fanbase.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  5. #4550
    Spectacular Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    I hated that Jean seemingly came back without any recollection of what she did as the White Phoenix of the Crown and in the White Hot Room. Erasing Here Comes Tomorrow, welcoming her relatives to the WHR after the End of Greys slaughter, protecting Rachel from the reality warp, recalling Phoenix pieces from the Cuckoos, Rachel and Korvus' blade, various visions, appearing the Scott near the end of Avengers vs. X-Men. She ascended, but it's treated like a big void with no connectivity.

  6. #4551
    Incredible Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    I hated that Jean seemingly came back without any recollection of what she did as the White Phoenix of the Crown and in the White Hot Room. Erasing Here Comes Tomorrow, welcoming her relatives to the WHR after the End of Greys slaughter, protecting Rachel from the reality warp, recalling Phoenix pieces from the Cuckoos, Rachel and Korvus' blade, various visions, appearing the Scott near the end of Avengers vs. X-Men. She ascended, but it's treated like a big void with no connectivity.
    If only we could seemingly disavow any recollection of Here Comes Tomorrow.

  7. #4552
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    I hated that Jean seemingly came back without any recollection of what she did as the White Phoenix of the Crown and in the White Hot Room. Erasing Here Comes Tomorrow, welcoming her relatives to the WHR after the End of Greys slaughter, protecting Rachel from the reality warp, recalling Phoenix pieces from the Cuckoos, Rachel and Korvus' blade, various visions, appearing the Scott near the end of Avengers vs. X-Men. She ascended, but it's treated like a big void with no connectivity.
    Maybe Ben Percy will give us something on this. Great big long-shot of that but you never know.

    Those are certainly events that would only be referenced by a writer who is interested in Jean's motivations, so it would certainly take a Percy type.

    Rosenberg would quit if he had to write something focused on Jean. In fact, he did. Lol
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  8. #4553
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I actually think if Rosenberg was able to write Jean, he'd have referenced her time post New X-men. His take on Jean was going to be more of a depressive one and we saw glimpses of that in his Astonishing X-men annual. I imagine he would have written her like season 6 Buffy after she got ripped out of heaven and was trying to deal with being back on earth as a human.

  9. #4554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    That's another thing that I wish weren't dropped. Jean learned a lot from her time in the present that isn't really touched on because Jean's evolution into her grown self as teen Jean technically matched who Jean became, except maybe a little less aggressive. I loved Taylor's take but I would've liked to see Jean readopt that aggressive persona from her teenage self, and especially the pink form. The pink form - or at least the ambient psychic vampirism - is such a cool ability I'd love to see more of even if it isn't the physical attributes of it.

    Instead Marvel are treating the O5 like their past selves never came to the present apart from that singular issue of Champions during War of the Realms. It sucks.
    I would like that too. And she could use one of the costumes of her past self as inspiration for a new one^^

  10. #4555
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    I would like that too. And she could use one of the costumes of her past self as inspiration for a new one^^
    I would honestly be okay with her wearing her X-Men Blue costume or her All New X-Men costume as it is!

    Even if they were worn by 16 year old Jean they were still very good designs that would look great on a mature character. Just as long as we keep her hair - the model length hair is iconic to the point that you can even recognize Jean by it in silhouette on the cover of Marauders 11.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  11. #4556
    Fantastic Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I don't see how it's any different than in real life a friend coming to you and asking you about it. I've had that happen to me before, and I mean, I don't feel like it was an invasion of privacy. It was a friend coming to another friend out of concern that they were lying to themselves, and them coming to the decision that she'd support him if he came out... to himself.

    I suppose that might come down to just personal feelings on the situation but it's definitely something that I don't believe needed to be addressed. It was Sina Grace bringing up a dead horse because he liked to pander to the fanbase.
    It’s more like a friend reading your private emails and then proceeding to TELL you that you’re gay. At the end of the day I blame Bendis, cause all other depictions of Jean seem way less tone deaf.

  12. #4557
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    If only we could seemingly disavow any recollection of Here Comes Tomorrow.
    I look at HCT as an "In-the-Throes-of-Death" dream/hallucination Jean experiences after being killed by Magneto.
    It is in retrospect a What if...? story as Beast never got hooked on Kick and Scott never left the X-Men and as such easily ignored.
    At Jean's grave, Jean still prompted Scott to be with Emma with the last remnants of her telepathy as their psychic bond dissipated.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  13. #4558
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Remember that Here Comes Tomorrow was referenced in Phoenix Endsong so that clearly places it in continuity and Jean seemed to remember it when the phoenix bonded with her in issue 3 I think it was. She even quotes herself and references the extermination of the bug people. Of course some of you will argue that Phoenix Endsong isn't in continuity but it most def. was. Rachel mentions Jean being back and dead again in the X-men Reload era placing it firmly in continuity.

    The thing is with Here Comes Tomorrow was that it was the conclusion to her phoenix subplot that ran through the entire New X-men run, it was the "phoenix work" and without it Jean's phoenix story is once again diminished and retconned from the character as the Dark Phoenix Saga was (though Inferno sort of fixed it and so did the classic backstories but it is rarely acknowledged). It is just too much to keep taking her big moments away.

    I can't with Hope being white phoenix and the OG white phoenix keeps getting retconned. Though Morrison brought Jean as White Phoenix back , it was used in X-men Forever miniseries (where Jean relives the memory/experience) and first used by Claremont in Classic X-men. I did like that in Phoenix Resurrection a phoenix egg was used (first seen in Planet X and then Here Comes Tomorrow) and that Jean was briefly shown as White Phoenix (both being nods to HTC).

    In my view Jean may not have the full awareness/ memories since she erased that timeline just like Rachel doesn't have full awareness of her time as Mother Askani. I do think someday and somehow the events of HCT need to be addressed with Jean. Again it is too much to keep retconning her big moments as the phoenix.

    Hickman does appreciate the Grant Morrison run just look at Giant size Jean and Emma and today's Giant Size Fantomex.

  14. #4559
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    I never read PE.
    HCT might be canon...I guess...but if it's never referenced or significantly adds to the (Jean/Krakoa) story...then I can easily ignore all of it. Just as the writers are ignoring some things prior to HoX/PoX.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  15. #4560
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Phoenix Endsong was largely a mess, but it has a few good parts.. like Jean's reference to events in Here Come Tomorrow including the line "I can see myself doing it again.. here I come tomorrow.." (may not be exact quote but pretty darn close) and being White Phoenix in the end after she feels the love of the X-men and is "balanced".

    The best issues were 1, 3, and 5.

    edit: also Jean defeating the Phoenix that was inside Emma was nice.
    Last edited by MechaJeanix; 08-05-2020 at 01:06 PM. Reason: added words ok?

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