Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[franckd]

But... how is Percy perpetuating sexism? If a new fan (or even one that started reading within the last 10 years) had this as their first exposure to Jean all they would see is a badass and competent women. Logan doesn’t harass Jean in this issue and she’s the one who pursues him. Also, she clearly still has her strong moral compass based on her interactions with Beast.

I noticed that my Kitty using the n-word example was ignored so I’ll use a romantic comparison instead. Superman used to mistreat Lois all the time in older comics, because that was viewed as socially acceptable. Now they have one of the few healthy and lasting marriages in comics. These characters aren’t only reflections of the people writing them, but of the time period that they were written in. If I go back and examine all the problematic stuff comic book characters did back in the day and scrutinized them for it, then I would probably have a very small reading list.

All that you're saying is logical. Context is everything.

[spirit2011]

sure context is important, that is why jean and Logan continues to be toxic. people can't erase all the time he sexually assaulted her

[franckd]

I pretty much want Jean to go wherever Percy goes at this point.

X-Force? Sure.

When he inevitably gets the flagship when Hickman is done? Of course.

If he goes to write Avengers? Yep.

If he takes a run on Squirrel Girl? No doubt.

I knew whe he said Jean was gonna "**** **** up" that we were in capable hands.

Exactly, and that's why the majority of Jean fans are happy with his Jean. His voice is her voice. She's in character and so far, Percy delivered. Good to know he's here to stay.

[spirit2011]

Exactly, and that's why the majority of Jean fans are happy with his Jean. His voice is her voice. She's in character and so far, Percy delivered. Good to know he's here to stay.

Nah, I don't think is majority. In this forum maybe, but i'm seeing a lot of people not liking it.

[Kingdom X]

new fan can still google the images and that is wrong, I got in comics some years ago and easyly saw that Logan and jean was messed uo. Really what is the problem of people that can't let it go from a toxic relationship?
It's on the past, writers need to move on with the modern times.
oh a chaarcter being badass doesn't make it less abusive.

i'm big fan of Lois and Clark, but Superman was a a-hole on silver age to everyone: jimmy, his counsin.

it is no longer on continuity, there was at least 2 reboots after that. i don't see how this has any relationship with Logan and jean.

I think pym and janet is a better case.

I’m sure a bunch of people on here (including myself) are not Jogan shippers (I personally don’t care about who she does or doesn’t date) but are just saying that a couple of panels don’t negate all the badass stuff Jean did in this issue. Also claiming that Percy is sexist or supports abusers, because of one hot tub scene that didn’t feature any harassment or abuse just seems unreasonable. These are very real and triggering issues, and I personally don’t see the point in continuously bringing them up based on one make out session between fictional characters.

[spirit2011]

I’m sure a bunch of people on here (including myself) are not Jogan shippers (I personally don’t care about who she does or doesn’t date) but are just saying that a couple of panels don’t negate all the badass stuff Jean did in this issue. Also claiming that Percy is sexist or supports abusers, because of one hot tub scene that didn’t feature any harassment or abuse just seems unreasonable. These are very real and triggering issues, and I personally don’t see the point in continuously bringing them up based on one make out session between fictional characters.

That is your opinion. harassment is serious issue that shouldn't be erased because a writer wrote some ok scenes.

comics should b progressive and not regressive.

[Kingdom X]

That is your opinion. harassment is serious issue that shouldn't be erased because a writer wrote some ok scenes.

comics should b progressive and not regressive.

I literally just said that harassment is a real and important issue... aight y’all I’m out.

[spirit2011]

I literally just said that harassment is a real and important issue... aight y’all I’m out.

but later you say that it isn't imortant because the writer did a good characterization for the character. one or another, the two together isn't possible

[SiegePerilous02]

Almost everyone says that Morrison introduced the x-men to modern times, that Hickman is inovation

It was still sexual assault and it reads as that, try to make it small is like a punch on the face of people who suffer it

Where is the sexual assault in Morrison or Hickman or Percy's run?

Claremont wrote the sexual assault and then retconned it himself. And even though Marvel hasn't done full blown reboots like DC, they still have the sliding timescale and other tweaks so they can quietly ignore problematic stuff from bygone eras. This ceased to be relevant back int he 80s, let alone now.

[franckd]

I’m sure a bunch of people on here (including myself) are not Jogan shippers (I personally don’t care about who she does or doesn’t date) but are just saying that a couple of panels don’t negate all the badass stuff Jean did in this issue. Also claiming that Percy is sexist or supports abusers, because of one hot tub scene that didn’t feature any harassment or abuse just seems unreasonable. These are very real and triggering issues, and I personally don’t see the point in continuously bringing them up based on one make out session between fictional characters.

Again, what you're saying is logic and reasonable.

[Soulsword323]

Percy's done a wonderful job with Jean's character. She plays the group's moral compass, and rightfully questions them when the need arises, but also demonstrates the understanding of doing the darker elements the job requires. It's very well rounded portrayal of Jean.

[Vishop]

Where is the sexual assault in Morrison or Hickman or Percy's run?

Claremont wrote the sexual assault and then retconned it himself. And even though Marvel hasn't done full blown reboots like DC, they still have the sliding timescale and other tweaks so they can quietly ignore problematic stuff from bygone eras. This ceased to be relevant back int he 80s, let alone now.

People forget Millar, Loeb and Bendis(in a way Taylor did some worst stuff like made OML trying killing children). As if these things are not common in modern and old comics but still if context appears to be no sexual assault. People bring God Claremont to rescue who orchestrated all of this sexual assault lol

[franckd]

People forget Millar, Loeb and Bendis(in a way Taylor did some worst stuff like made OML trying killing children). As if these things are not common in modern and old comics but still if context appears to be no sexual assault. People bring God Claremont to rescue who orchestrated all of this sexual assault lol

CC also wrote this...



Kitty the sexual abuser. How did she end-up with Peter after harassing him like this. And she was a teen! What a monster! How can you enjoy the character or CC's work after that??*

* Still being sarcastic here

[spirit2011]

Where is the sexual assault in Morrison or Hickman or Percy's run?

Claremont wrote the sexual assault and then retconned it himself. And even though Marvel hasn't done full blown reboots like DC, they still have the sliding timescale and other tweaks so they can quietly ignore problematic stuff from bygone eras. This ceased to be relevant back int he 80s, let alone now.

marvel continuity is just the same, if they retcon something they explicitly say so like when Fraction/brevoort retconned that a infant Sue fell in love with a adult Reed Richards.

I didn't said there was sexual assault, but there is sexism elements on the 3 runs

Percy's done a wonderful job with Jean's character. She plays the group's moral compass, and rightfully questions them when the need arises, but also demonstrates the understanding of doing the darker elements the job requires. It's very well rounded portrayal of Jean.

If Jean chaarcterization was really good, she owuldn't even be part of it

[Vishop]

IF sexism makes you think they all are bad runs then don't read comics. Because I can guarantee sexism is everywhere in comics even to those writers you like. It is a fact. It is bad but still, it is a fact.