Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Oh, I’ve always loved a nice Jean death scene but sometimes it’s just too soon and I’m still thinking things might be off in Wolverine. We shall see next issue. He may still be under an illusion or other manipulation.

My big peeve is the reason they had Jean reject the Phoenix - the torturous cycle of death and rebirth but thanks to Xavier she’s in another cycle of death and rebirth. Seems like rejecting the Phoenix was a waste because she didn’t escape it. In PE Jean wanted to die when it was her time and now she’s back to being ok with resurrection. Now without Phoenix death and rebirth is still a part of her story (and part of the story of all mutants).

I definitely agree that there wasn't enough time between the last death.

As for the reversal on her being against coming back from the dead, I'm glad. Her wanting to die in Rosenberg's stories really...ticked me off. Having her reject the Phoenix was a renunciation of work that was 10000 times truer and more memorable than any X-story Rosenberg will ever write. How dare he.

It would be one thing to have the Phoenix go away, but to turn Jean Grey's canon into just a sad hostage story? Distasteful.

[WallStreeter]

Jean dying again is annoying. Now Jean has died twice since returning in Phoenix Resurrection. Jean, Quinton, and Domino have died twice now in this new era. It might turn out to be a thing for X-force members.

Jean went from one cycle of death and rebirth to another.

I wonder if this isn’t the point? She’s back in her Marvel Girl costume.

But yet she is still trapped in a cycle of death and rebirth and still has to hatch out of an egg like the Phoenix egg.

I think she got reset to Marvel Girl to wipe away all trace of Phoenix: Resurrctioj
And XMen Red.

That Hickman’s long term plan is to turn her into Phoenix.

Morrison ignored Claremont writing Jean as a telepathic Phoenix to return her to early 90s power levels. Then she went through a Phoenix transformation.

Hickman’s draws a lot from the Morrison era and of course Claremont’s work too.

[Harpsikord]

God, I keep forgetting about how Rosenberg wrote Jean as depressed and wanting to die again. On paper maybe it looks meta but it just feels... disingenuous. Jean should be the type of person to embrace her life and live it to the fullest BECAUSE she knows, very well, how short it can be and how quickly it can be cut off.

[5cents]

Rick Remender: Just found my entire 2 year X-bible plans from when I was going to take over the X books. Haven't opened it since I quit in 2014. Was very Fantomex, Jean, and Professor X-orn centric. Big bad was Mastermind. Just couldn't make myself do the mandated Inhumans story. c'est la vie

[Redshipper]

God, I keep forgetting about how Rosenberg wrote Jean as depressed and wanting to die again. On paper maybe it looks meta but it just feels... disingenuous. Jean should be the type of person to embrace her life and live it to the fullest BECAUSE she knows, very well, how short it can be and how quickly it can be cut off.

Rosenberg did not do right by Jean.

Wish Claremont or Morrison would be given another chance at Jean.

[spirit2011]

Rosenberg did not do right by Jean.

Wish Claremont or Morrison would be given another chance at Jean.

Nah. Morrison doesn't like Jean and I would like someone that can write women without fridging them

claremont did right, but his prime is behind him.

[Havok83]

The main person Id trust to write Jean is Taylor. Id be down for him rejoining the X-line

[spirit2011]

Rick Remender: Just found my entire 2 year X-bible plans from when I was going to take over the X books. Haven't opened it since I quit in 2014. Was very Fantomex, Jean, and Professor X-orn centric. Big bad was Mastermind. Just couldn't make myself do the mandated Inhumans story. c'est la vie

people posted this twice here LOL

I would rather have Remender writing Jean, not that I'm his fan. Or even Carey that wanted to use her but couldn't because she was dead

[Wiccan]

He was talking about EXM, so I think he means teen Jean.

[MechaJeanix]

Nah. Morrison doesn't like Jean and I would like someone that can write women without fridging them

claremont did right, but his prime is behind him.

There is no evidence to support the claim that Morrison didn’t like Jean. I know some of you are extremely biased when it comes to Morrison but at least try to be fair and honest. While he probably did like Scott or Emma better, he still did great by Jean. She had a lot of focus, had a subplot through the entire run, got to be fully Phoenix again, had her own story , was confident, powerful, and capable. She shown compassion towards several characters and had numerous memorable moments. Sure she died but as I will say until my dying breath editors could have brought her back at any time if they wanted.

[spirit2011]

He was talking about EXM, so I think he means teen Jean.

that i swhat he had to work, but I don't see anything that he wouldn't work with the real deal.

[spirit2011]

There is no evidence to support the claim that Morrison didn’t like Jean. I know some of you are extremely biased when it comes to Morrison but at least try to be fair and honest. While he probably did like Scott or Emma better, he still did great by Jean. She had a lot of focus, had a subplot through the entire run, got to be fully Phoenix again, had her own story , was confident, powerful, and capable. She shown compassion towards several characters and had numerous memorable moments. Sure she died but as I will say until my dying breath editors could have brought her back at any time if they wanted.

of course we had this discussion before, but Morrison writing was just ok. if he liked Jean he wouldn't fridged her, have the love of her life cheated on her and have naother woman take her place. This isn't even debatable
editors could do that, but also editors wouldn't need to bring jean back if Morrison hadn't killed her. Everyone know how comics are mysoginistic and Morrison helped it and never apologized

[MechaJeanix]

of course we had this discussion before, but Morrison writing was just ok. if he liked Jean he wouldn't fridged her, have the love of her life cheated on her and have naother woman take her place. This isn't even debatable
editors could do that, but also editors wouldn't need to bring jean back if Morrison hadn't killed her. Everyone know how comics are mysoginistic and Morrison helped it and never apologized

You are making a lot of assertions that are simply not true. Jean and Scott are essentially soap opera couples and no fictional couple is sacred and most get broken up or has their significant other cheat on them. Writers come up with all sorts of ways to break couples up - in movies, television series, books, short stories, etc. It is very common and if I am honest at the time it upset me too because I have always loved Scott and Jean together but I found I also love them apart. They stand up as individual characters and no not have to be tied together.

I know some were upset about Scott cheating on Emma and Emma taking Jean's place as Scott's love interest and lead team telepath, but what is done is done. As I continue to bring up reducing Jean's story in Morrison's run to just the affair or her death erases all the other stuff I continue to bring up (Jean's initial fight with Cassandra, her teasing with Beast, her moment with Wolverine, her showing compassion for Xavier, the psychic rescue, saving Xavier's life, showing care for Beak, protecting the students, manifesting Phoenix, interaction with Fantomex, finding Dust, fighting Emma, going to rescue Wolverine in Space, confronting Xorn, awaking in the future, becoming White Phoenix, etc. There were so many great moments but unfortunately some fans can't see beyond some relationship drama.

The only other time Jean has had this level focus in recent years is X-men Red (if we count teen Jean then the Bendis run and Jean Grey solo). Like it or not or want to admit it or not, Morrison's Jean Grey is one of the best if not the best version of the character. She has yet to be treated this well in the current era even though I think Percy will go down as a great Jean Grey writer in time. I also think Hickman has her voice down.

In story, I agree that Jean and Scott had an epic love and I do think writers did their best to diminish it (especially when Pak and Bendis wrote that Scott had chose Emma over Jean or the times writers had Scott say that Jean wasn't good for him or that Emma was who he needed, etc. That was unfortunate but again nothing we can do about it, but it doesn't erase all the Jean moments in Morrison's run - her focus, her voice, or how Morrison had other characters describe Jean. I felt he got who the character was and he didn't make her weak or a background character. If anything he elevated Jean even in death because he gave her a mission or cosmic destiny with the Phoenix (that writers like Rosenberg essentially crapped all over). Sacrifice is a big part of Jean's character and Morrison definitely played into that with his final moments with the character.


I guess what I'm saying is that there are a lot of elements of the Jean Grey character to appreciate and focus on that aren't about her being a love interest or who the character is in love with. Sexuality and romance are important elements of life but they are not everything. There are so much more to all of us than who we date, marry, whatever with.

[phoenixzero23]

Claremont is always talking about how he wanted Jean to stay dead forever and how her coming back is the worst thing to ever happen. He was good but not anymore.
and Morrison for all that people love to romantize his work still treated her like disposable garbage at the end of the day.

[Havok83]

Claremont was good for Jean last time he was able to write her, both in his Uncanny Revolution run and then X-treme X-men. He may not have liked when she was initially resurrected but he hasnt been awful to her when she's been under his pen. I just dont think he needs to return bc his best days are far behind him. He doesnt work with modern books