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  1. #5881
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    I don't necessarily disagree with some of you but Jean hasn't been bad in this new era imo. I was very critical of Jean's portrayal in House of X 4 when it came out and I got slammed hard on this very board. I felt like a pariah for a few weeks lol But other than that one issue Jean has been handled fairly well... especially by Percy.

    Hickman has used Jean well, but I know it is not what many of us want. We typically want more. We want stories where she's centered. She's not centered when she's used by Hickman...who knows that might change. Maybe he does have bigger plans. Right now the Hickman book centers Scott (along with a few others) and Jean is used more of a secondary character .

    In X-force Jean is shown to be confident, capable, and powerful. She does have a story. Jean is a heroic character but she's in a dark book where hard choices are made and bad things happen. Jean was uncomfortable killing the plant men when ordered by Beast, she was upset with Beast due to his deception and the decimation of the Terra Verde people, she saved the day in Terra Verde along with Sage and Black Tom. I think her story there is that Jean does want to be a hero and she doesn't like how X-force operates. Now Jean along with Scott will restart the X-men to be the heroes of Krakoa.

    I may be wrong and maybe she will remain in X-force and help push it in a different direction but I expect she'll be in Hickman's book a lot more and maybe co-leading the X-men with Scott.

  2. #5882
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I mainly want the dumb Marvel Girl costume to go away. Otherwise if she's mainly here for plot driven reasons, it's not the end of the world. I hope for way more (especially for the Phoenix/Dominion stuff) but if not...well, this is the X-Men franchise, not the Jean Grey franchise. If HoX #4 is the worst things get, I'm not going to consider it a serious black mark on this run just because one of my favorite X-Men isn't the center of attention for this one.

    Since Hickman loves to use Morrison's concepts, I hope he kicks it into high gear with Jean and channels that if he starts bringing in the Phoenix Force. I'm not going to consider it doom and gloom when there is no firm end in sight yet.

    I'd read X-Force more, but I'm trying to keep it focused on just Hickman's stuff along with Hellions and S.W.X.R.D. Too many books is just unwieldy. Also, I don't want to have to put up with asshole Beast, a characterization I intensely dislike though unfortunately seems to be consistent with the last few years.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 11-27-2020 at 02:21 PM.

  3. #5883
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with some of you but Jean hasn't been bad in this new era imo. I was very critical of Jean's portrayal in House of X 4 when it came out and I got slammed hard on this very board. I felt like a pariah for a few weeks lol But other than that one issue Jean has been handled fairly well... especially by Percy.

    Hickman has used Jean well, but I know it is not what many of us want. We typically want more. We want stories where she's centered. She's not centered when she's used by Hickman...who knows that might change. Maybe he does have bigger plans. Right now the Hickman book centers Scott (along with a few others) and Jean is used more of a secondary character .

    In X-force Jean is shown to be confident, capable, and powerful. She does have a story. Jean is a heroic character but she's in a dark book where hard choices are made and bad things happen. Jean was uncomfortable killing the plant men when ordered by Beast, she was upset with Beast due to his deception and the decimation of the Terra Verde people, she saved the day in Terra Verde along with Sage and Black Tom. I think her story there is that Jean does want to be a hero and she doesn't like how X-force operates. Now Jean along with Scott will restart the X-men to be the heroes of Krakoa.

    I may be wrong and maybe she will remain in X-force and help push it in a different direction but I expect she'll be in Hickman's book a lot more and maybe co-leading the X-men with Scott.
    That's the thing though...X-Force is likely over for her. We're losing the good content for more HoX4 type stuff.

    I'd also dispute the argument that the problem is that she isn't centered in Hickman's stories. Her acting frightful and dainty during a mission while all the other characters in the story are getting warrior's deaths has nothing to do with her not being the central character.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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  4. #5884
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    We really need to just let HoX #4 go already.

  5. #5885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    That's the thing though...X-Force is likely over for her. We're losing the good content for more HoX4 type stuff.

    I'd also dispute the argument that the problem is that she isn't centered in Hickman's stories. Her acting frightful and dainty during a mission while all the other characters in the story are getting warrior's deaths has nothing to do with her not being the central character.
    Yep! She doesn’t have to be the central character in X of Swords to have an in character, appropriate reaction to the situation she was in. She had her position on the counsel taken away and her best reaction is “im disappointed.” Jean would have given them a piece of her mind and told them off, or quit herself. Instead she accepted it and rolled over like the demure housewife Hickman seems to think she is. Disappointing indeed.
    Last edited by Tank; 11-27-2020 at 02:55 PM.

  6. #5886
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    This "housewife" stuff seems exaggerated as well.

    It seems to have started with X-Men #1 where Jean was helping prepare dinner with the family. Ignoring the fact that Scott cleaned the dishes. Is he a househusband?

  7. #5887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Yep! She doesn’t have to be the central character in X of Swords to have an in character, appropriate reaction to the situation she was in. She had her position on the counsel taken away and her best reaction is “im disappointed.” Jean would have given them a piece of her mind and told them off, or quit herself. Instead she accepted it and rolled over like the demure housewife Hickman seems to think she is. Disappointing indeed.
    I never expected Jean to be a main character on XOS. Give her a bit of her own agency could be really good.

    I'm not a big fan of X-force, it spends too little time with Jean and she being part of a mutant CIA that kills and torture people is not what the haracter should stand for. I also see some shades of Hickman's passive characterization

  8. #5888
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    This "housewife" stuff seems exaggerated as well.

    It seems to have started with X-Men #1 where Jean was helping prepare dinner with the family. Ignoring the fact that Scott cleaned the dishes. Is he a househusband?
    Replace with psychic speakerphone girlfriend and typical mom and it works as well. She has 0 agency unless it’s within the context of Cable/Cyclops or whatever man is driving the story.

    Where’s the fire and spunk?
    Last edited by Tank; 11-27-2020 at 03:06 PM.

  9. #5889
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    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    I never expected Jean to be a main character on XOS. Give her a bit of her own agency could be really good.

    I'm not a big fan of X-force, it spends too little time with Jean and she being part of a mutant CIA that kills and torture people is not what the haracter should stand for. I also see some shades of Hickman's passive characterization
    I would like her plot in X-Force had her actually making tough decisions on her own. But once again all her actions are in the context of what Beast did/has done.

  10. #5890
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Replace with psychic speakerphone girlfriend and typical mom and it works as well. She has 0 agency unless it’s within the context of Cable/Cyclops or whatever man is driving the story.

    Where’s the fire and spunk?
    I'd like some fire and spunk.

    It would just be a more accurate criticism than exaggerating things to "housewife with no agency" comments.

  11. #5891
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I would like her plot in X-Force had her actually making tough decisions on her own. But once again all her actions are in the context of what Beast did/has done.
    You probably found the problem with writers: Her actions/thoughts are on context of men on her life Scott/Beast

  12. #5892
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    This "housewife" stuff seems exaggerated as well.

    It seems to have started with X-Men #1 where Jean was helping prepare dinner with the family. Ignoring the fact that Scott cleaned the dishes. Is he a househusband?
    The issue he gets lots of exposition with his doubts with Krakoa, and he also got some of it on later issues. omplete different treatment

  13. #5893
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    The issue he gets lots of exposition with his doubts with Krakoa, and he also got some of it on later issues. omplete different treatment
    Lol still not enough to justify the "housewife" complaints. It's making a mountain out of an ant hill.

    Thus far, Jean isn't one of the characters to get a lot of in depth focus in the main X-series, and I'm hoping that changes personally. But there isn't a rigid rule that she has to be one of those characters either.

  14. #5894
    Fantastic Member Alex.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    This "housewife" stuff seems exaggerated as well.

    It seems to have started with X-Men #1 where Jean was helping prepare dinner with the family. Ignoring the fact that Scott cleaned the dishes. Is he a househusband?
    Well, Jean is the only one using gloves to clean dishes, so...

  15. #5895
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Yes Jean and Scott are both housewifes, they do the cooking and the cleaning for their man Logan. #rejectmodernityembracetradition

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