Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Havok83]

in the past. Doesn't mean it have to happen again, specially that Jean left any attraction to Logan in the past

In the past when she was either dating or married to Scott, which to me would have been more off about her character. But according to you she is single.

And how do you know she left any attraction to Logan in the past? She came back from the dead in 2017 and hasnt had any meaningful interaction with him until the current Dawn of X era

[franckd]

in the past. Doesn't mean it have to happen again, specially that Jean left any attraction to Logan in the past

Even when you're trapped in your obvious contradictions, you try to find a way out lol

Jean kissed Logan a few times. From time to time. So why kissing him again is OCC?
Spoilers : it's not OCC, and there is no way out.

[spirit2011]

She sure was not in love with Logan, yet she was still attracted to him enough to kiss him in New X-Men and explore his sexual fantaisies.

And yet, even she left any attraction to him in the past, is it impossible that she can feel it again? I mean, do you even know how human feelings and emotions work? Not projecting, just noticing that many people can be attracted to someone, then let go that attraction, then go back to it after a while. I witnessed it many times.

And as you claim that X-Force #10 feature just a kiss, what's the problem? She kissed him a few times before. Sometimes it was years between 2 kisses. So what is OCC ?

Jean never explored his sexual fantasies and the kiss was about missing Scott. Logan love for Jean on morrison run was one sided as always

People often leave old attraction on the past. Let's not make a nostalgia trip, the character should be going forward, not backwards in a very demeaning and sexist way
just for the fact that people are defending backwards characterization, it really makes me disliked everything Hickman and percy are doing.

Tom Taylor have to get back and save the chaarcter

Even when you're trapped in your obvious contradictions, you try to find a way out lol

Jean kissed Logan a few times. From time to time. So why kissing him again is OCC? It's not, and there is no way out.

decades ago, you are just using old nostalgia and that doesn't work. majority of times he sexually assaulted her to get the kiss.
and have to use Morrison, that was one of the worst writers to get it done is also baffling

In the past when she was either dating or married to Scott, which to me would have been more off about her character. But according to you she is single.

And how do you know she left any attraction to Logan in the past? She came back from the dead in 2017 and hasnt had any meaningful interaction with him until the current Dawn of X era

She was never tha tmuch into him to begin. She was single on the first issues of X-factor and she went to chase Scott and not Logan.
LOl at the attraction to Logan
I think that when people wake up that Logan was a just a dude to try to be a obstacle to jean/scott instead of a attraction on its own right. We will have a true conversation

[Will Evans]

Did people make all these fusses and excuses when Logan and Ororo started sleeping together?

Why is Jean put on a pedestal?

[Jack The Tripper]

That's a bit harsh don't you think? So they have a dissenting opinion, so what? It happens, it's natural. What harm is it causing?

I didn't mean to sound harsh, I'm just saying it's clearly just people going around in circles constantly. I just don't see what the benefit is in arguing about it honestly.

[Vishop]

Yeah, Killing a fan favorite, a cash cow when you write an X-Book is more Claremont not seing that his book didn't have a future...
But that was not my point : in X-men forever, there was not more building up for Jogan...
Yet I agree, CC is not perfect. Remember Revolution? Colossus and Rogue kissing? Yeah, THAT came from nowhere. They never were attracted to each other before, there was no building up... It was forced, and that, I call bad writing and OOC...

You know when someone is so deluded to God Claremont who has written mediocre comics for the last 25 years, there is no need to make an argument. It is not worth it.

[Harpsikord]

I'm not sure where you were planning on going with this.

Not sure he knows where he was going with it. He dropped it as soon as I called him out on it

[Havok83]

Jean never explored his sexual fantasies and the kiss was about missing Scott. Logan love for Jean on morrison run was one sided as always

People often leave old attraction on the past. Let's not make a nostalgia trip, the character should be going forward, not backwards in a very demeaning and sexist way
just for the fact that people are defending backwards characterization, it really makes me disliked everything Hickman and percy are doing.

Tom Taylor have to get back and save the chaarcter

People that were in a relationship often do when there is a bad breakup, but Jean and Logan never had the opportunity to explore it so finally acting on that is something new to both of them. There is a curiousity there especially after dancing around it for so long and it now no longer being forbidden

Your stance doesnt even hold true for the books. We just had Rogue and Gambit marry after years of not being together. Kitty and Piotr also reunited after years apart prior to them. Storm and T'Challa are back together after years seperated. Attraction not completely dying isnt an uncommon thing here

Did people make all these fusses and excuses when Logan and Ororo started sleeping together?

Why is Jean put on a pedestal?

Not people, its really just one person making a fuss in here

[spirit2011]

Did people make all these fusses and excuses when Logan and Ororo started sleeping together?

Why is Jean put on a pedestal?

They already slept together before they recently encounter. Also different chaarcters and relationships between them.
no one putting Jean on a pedestal

Not sure he knows where he was going with it. He dropped it as soon as I called him out on it

i'm a she and I didn't dropped anything.

people pretend that the character has agency to excuse sexism

[franckd]

Jean never explored his sexual fantasies and the kiss was about missing Scott. Logan love for Jean on morrison run was one sided as always

People often leave old attraction on the past. Let's not make a nostalgia trip, the character should be going forward, not backwards in a very demeaning and sexist way
just for the fact that people are defending backwards characterization, it really makes me disliked everything Hickman and percy are doing.

Tom Taylor have to get back and save the chaarcter


decades ago, you are just using old nostalgia and that doesn't work. majority of times he sexually assaulted her to get the kiss.
and have to use Morrison, that was one of the worst writers to get it done is also baffling



She was never tha tmuch into him to begin. She was single on the first issues of X-factor and she went to chase Scott and not Logan.
LOl at the attraction to Logan
I think that when people wake up that Logan was a just a dude to try to be a obstacle to jean/scott instead of a attraction on its own right. We will have a true conversation

She did want to explore them. Logan had to ask her to stop...
Anyway, I congratulate your for your honesty : a simple kiss makes you dislike everything else Hickman & Percy are doing. As I said, you always find a way to turn an appreciation thread into Morrison and Hickman's bashing. Nice to know that now we can add Percy to your bashing list.

[spirit2011]

People that were in a relationship often do when there is a bad breakup, but Jean and Logan never had the opportunity to explore it so finally acting on that is something new to both of them. There is a curiousity there especially after dancing around it for so long and it now no longer being forbidden

Your stance doesnt even hold true for the books. We just had Rogue and Gambit marry after years of not being together. Kitty and Piotr also reunited after years apart prior to them. Storm and T'Challa are back together after years seperated. Attraction not completely dying isnt an uncommon thing here

They had chances, but jean never wanted. Even when she came back, she didn't care romantically about Logan.
Also he was never a really worth obstacle for jean and Scott.

rogue and gambit are a true couple, just like ororo/tchalla. they don't compare to one sided logan/jean.

She did want to explore them. Logan had to ask her to stop...
Anyway, I congratulate your for your honesty : a simple kiss makes you dislike everything else Hickman & Percy are doing. As I said, you always find a way to turn an appreciation thread into Morrison and Hickman's bashing. Nice to know that now we can add Percy to your bashing list.

She didn't, she was getting into eveyone thoughts and Logan asked her to stop before she even entered his thoughts. Agains this is a shipper projection, I read the issue and didn't found any flirting from Jean's part, again one sided crap from Logan.

[Harpsikord]

i'm a she and I didn't dropped anything.

people pretend that the character has agency to excuse sexism

Apologies for misgendering.

This isn't sexism. Not in the slightest. Sexism would be Logan forcing himself on Jean and Jean just taking it and acting submissive and like she doesn't have any choice in the matter. Jean HAS agency here, she's the one making the call, she's the aggressor.

[Veitha]

The contradictions are starting to take a life of their own.

[franckd]

You know when someone is so deluded to God Claremont who has written mediocre comics for the last 25 years, there is no need to make an argument. It is not worth it.

Thanks for the advice. I think the same, unfortunately. But as I loved his first run, I never want to be harsh on Claremont latest work, even if i do 100% agree with you. So I try to avoid talking about his awful writing. Even if I think it is awful.

[spirit2011]

Apologies for misgendering.

This isn't sexism. Not in the slightest. Sexism would be Logan forcing himself on Jean and Jean just taking it and acting submissive and like she doesn't have any choice in the matter. Jean HAS agency here, she's the one making the call, she's the aggressor.

he abuse and sexually assaulted her in the past, just for her giving in now is sexist. Of course for me as woman it is more personal because sexual assault is a reality and it shouldn't be romanticed this way,

for me there isn't agency when a charcter is being written. This was the same excuse being used when lobdell sexualized the hell out of Starfire.
This won't fly with me years ago and won't fly now

The contradictions are starting to take a life of their own.

i'm seeing no contradictions