Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

because again as I was saying, the characters have returned to a recognizable stage for the majority, although they have a modern image the characters are in situations of 30 or 40 years ago, love triangles, living on an island, union of Heroes and villains are things we have seen many times.
The current image of Jean is the one that most remembers, Scott's girlfriend / wife, flirting with Logan, we already have the character that many remember, so from now on theoretically we will have to witness what they have prepared for Jean, it can be horrible or great, but you have to read it. I am also enraged by the last pages of X-force, but I prefer not to have hasty conclusions about something that has not yet finished.

If I don't speak up now, it will seem as I am condoning the story and later people will say: "oh so why didn't you say nothing?"
I think that they want to eat and heve their cake too with Jean, regress the character by try to make it appetizing by throwing bones to shippers.
It's a hell of mess

[v_jeovanne]

If I don't speak up now, it will seem as I am condoning the story and later people will say: "oh so why didn't you say nothing?"
I think that they want to eat and heve their cake too with Jean, regress the character by try to make it appetizing by throwing bones to shippers.
It's a hell of mess

As strange as it may seem, I agree with you, seriously, but I have learned to enjoy the little good of my favorite characters to bother about the much **** of my favorite characters.

[houndsofluv]

Hickman said the reason Jean was using the Marvel Girl costume was because it was callback to when she wore it in the Phoenix Saga. It's coming, but it's going to be a while.

damn I had no idea he said this ! which interview?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

damn I had no idea he said this ! which interview?

One of the X-Men Mondays

[houndsofluv]

thanks ! might have to go digging ..

[Vishop]

He was hallucinating

In his universe, he saw what happened with Gabby and Laura therefore he anticipated it might happen to her as well. He was clearly conscious about the fact she was Gabby and he even confessed to Laura. Neither it was shown in the context that he was hallucinating. Only feral.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/98O2GbFUZE...aJkSAlmV=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/eemZ4bl1ng...7FaII_8B=s1600

bishop never killed a kid.

but wolverine harassed jean multiple times and peopel still ship him with Jean

of course Bishop is back and we know what happens

Yeah right as if he wouldn't have killed Hope if the x-men hadn't stopped him. Still, as of canon, I agree he didn't kill her but I only mentioned it against your refutal of killing kids is worse than sexism.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

This a bit off-topic but Wolverine got just as close to killing Hope for the exact same reason Bishop did. Bishop had to go through a judgement/ostracision period because Marvel doesn't care about black characters.

As for Bishop and Jean, it's funny. I was sure Jean would only ever be "associated" with another male character in a non-canon situation, like with her and Bishop.

That begs a question:

Is Jean and Logan being a thing the first sign that the Krakoa era will be undone? I wonder how they pull it off.

[franckd]

I agree. When X-men Red was coming out I often said Jean seemed too passive or too pacifist. I got some flack on here for it. I've went back and re-read the series and I do love X-men Red as a strong Jean Grey story but I miss her passion and her fire.

Jean in X-force has that fire. I appreciate both versions and both stories, but I am glad Jean is in a book where she has to grapple with tough choices.

We're so on the same page. I really loved Tom Taylor's Jean. She was clever, she always wanted to find a better way. But there was a kind of fire missing. But it was a little price to pay. Maybe the problem with X-Men Red, was that Jean was too much front & center. As a fan, I didn't mind and I will not complain, especially after her being gone so long. It was long due. But I clearly can understand it was a problem for the other fanbases. That's why I am so in love with X-Force : it's so well balanced. Every character has his/her moment. Te fact that Jean is not always front in center make her presence even stronger. When she shines, oh damn she really shines. It was also nice to see Sage on field. She was one of the character who didn't had much to do on field so far. But I am quite sure Percy will give her other moments to shine.

But if it were a male to another male, would you care?


If it were female to another female, would you care?

If it were an evil villain male to a good female would you care?

If it were an evil villain male to a good male would you care?

That girl punched the guy in the face because she didn't like what he said. This is abuse. If it was a man to an other man, a woman to an other woman, it will still be an abuse. You don't punch someone in the face because you don't like what he/she says. Same here, you don't insult or name call someone because his/her opinion is horrible and/or provocative (not talking about you or anyone specific). That's being civil.

Anyway, happy or not, X-Force#10 has Jean and Logan kissing (and surely more)... Now if we hate it, we can wait for it to be undone, or we can move an. Or we can give up the book. As for me, I will maybe buy 2 copies of this one. 1 for me, the other to offer to a a friend of mine who is not a regular reader, but always liked the idea of Jogan.

[WallStreeter]

I loved XMen Red too. But we have to remember the XMen are not just about one character, no matter how much you love them. After Disney got back the movie and tv rights by buying Fox, they decided to reboot the world the XMen live in. So they focused on the older XMen. Xavier, Moira Kinross, Magneto, Apocalypse, Emma Frost (her Hellfure trading company distributes Krakoa’s drugs around the world and she had its ambassador).

Jean had to take a back seat because they were works building at the time and her issues tend to dominate. The same for Storm, Cable, Wolverine, Gambit, and other strong characters with very well developed pasts. We didn’t see the development of individual XMen until the team books got launched.

With that said though she is in the Marvel Girl costume this Jean Grey is clearly very powerful. Not only disintegrating the plant people but tapping into Sage and Black Tom’s powers you use them to erase the Teleflorics from those people.

I like how it acknowledges Jeen’s power development, and the pink powers. She’s shown as powerful and intelligent.

I just don’t like the Marvel Girl costume. It’s not a deal breaker. But with the power and skill she demonstrates in XFirce and in the Jean Grey and Emma Frost (where she had on a green end yellow version of the X-Men red costume). I just think since she always finds away to come back from the dead with or without the Phoenix she deserves the name Phoenix and I look forward to when they decide to have her be Phoenix.

[MarvelMaster616]

Luciano Vecchio did some redesigns mixing Jean's classic color scheme and Marvel Girl look with other designs!





I really like the second and fourth ones.

Love these designs! And agree. The second and fourth one are the best.

[The Thunderbird]

Luciano Vecchio did some redesigns mixing Jean's classic color scheme and Marvel Girl look with other designs!





I really like the second and fourth ones.

These are all so gorgeous. I think I like the second one best. It's a real classy look and a good upgrade to the mini skirt.

[SiegePerilous02]

But I don’t think anyone was denying that what Logan did back in the day was wrong. That aspect of their relationship has definitely been erased/ retconned over time and certainly doesn’t show up in the comic that was released this week. Comics are a weird medium in that they are never ending stories written by a whole bunch of writers. One writer may present Logan as a creep while others don’t.

If the current issue at hand had presented Logan as harassing Jean I woulda been quick to cancel Percy and call out the book, but I can’t control what CC wrote 40 years. All I’m saying is that someone can deeply care about these issues and not feel the need to get mad about Jean’s choice to have a consensual make out session with Logan in this issue.

This is generally why I don't hold too many problematic behaviors against fictional characters in mainstream comic books too much, unless it gets really compounded and becomes plot relevant. Especially with constantly changing writers with differing agendas, being written in different time periods with different social norms and expectations, reboots, retcons, etc. If we held every bad action on the part of the writers against the characters, we probably wouldn't be able to like any of them. Batman's one of my favorite characters, and he can be detestable piece of crap in certain eras, but I don't hold it against the character as a whole. And I try to extend that to everyone (due to personal bias, I certainly don't always succeed).

This is the same with Logan in this instance. The original sleazy behavior was written when his character wasn't even fully formed yet, and it was only a handful of appearances. CC wrote it, it's not Percy's fault.

We've had people say Logan did nothing wrong. It was more than one writer, he did this when Louise Simonson wrote him. Unless retconned whats every writer writes is canon, are you sure those incidents were retconned out?

Logan did something wrong, but Claremont already retconned the nature of their relationship within his own run. To the point where he was writing new backup stories in X-Men Classic to alter the nature of their early dynamic. And back then, I'd say Claremont's view of the characters trumped Simonson's. There wasn't even much consistency with how characters acted between their two books (read Inferno and see how different Madelyn is in the alternating chapters- it's very clearly two writers with differing views). Relying on rigid canon in mainstream superhero comics, especially at this point, is kind of a slippery slope.

[Phoenixx9]

I loved XMen Red too. But we have to remember the XMen are not just about one character, no matter how much you love them. After Disney got back the movie and tv rights by buying Fox, they decided to reboot the world the XMen live in. So they focused on the older XMen. Xavier, Moira Kinross, Magneto, Apocalypse, Emma Frost (her Hellfure trading company distributes Krakoa’s drugs around the world and she had its ambassador).

Jean had to take a back seat because they were works building at the time and her issues tend to dominate. The same for Storm, Cable, Wolverine, Gambit, and other strong characters with very well developed pasts. We didn’t see the development of individual XMen until the team books got launched.

With that said though she is in the Marvel Girl costume this Jean Grey is clearly very powerful. Not only disintegrating the plant people but tapping into Sage and Black Tom’s powers you use them to erase the Teleflorics from those people.

I like how it acknowledges Jeen’s power development, and the pink powers. She’s shown as powerful and intelligent.

I just don’t like the Marvel Girl costume. It’s not a deal breaker. But with the power and skill she demonstrates in XFirce and in the Jean Grey and Emma Frost (where she had on a green end yellow version of the X-Men red costume). I just think since she always finds away to come back from the dead with or without the Phoenix she deserves the name Phoenix and I look forward to when they decide to have her be Phoenix.

I agree with you.

Also, if there was a reason that Jean is in the Marvel Girl costume, it has been way-to-long now, and should be explained to the reader!

Otherwise, it is just a writer preference and lazy lack of design.

[Kingdom X]

I agree with you.

Also, if there was a reason that Jean is in the Marvel Girl costume, it has been way-to-long now, and should be explained to the reader!

Otherwise, it is just a writer preference and lazy lack of design.

I remember Hickman being kinda condescending in the X-Men Monday interview where he explained that it was a reference to when she last wore it. He said something along the lines of readers should understand the costume choice, so I don’t think he feels any urge to give something concrete (but hey I could be wrong).

[Portsian]

Is i t safe to come back in, i got so tired of all the arguing and responses to spirit2011, i put him on ignore months ago cos there is no dialogue or growth in the arguments / discussions. Sometimes the best response is just to ignore a poster if you dont agree, no matter how hard it is. I wasn’t going to read anither 20 pages of the same circular dusagreements, so i have jumped forward to this page.

So im starting again as of this page! And hope discussions will still be lively and interesting!