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  1. #4051
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Nothing better than having a reflection about that, my hope was that Percy could write jean nice but he regressed the character. The only hope is gone
    The whole concept of X-men went back 30 or 40 years, not only Jean, it is quite common in the industry to return the characters to a recognizable state for the majority of the public, that is why there is that feeling of "normality" or continuity in the history.

  2. #4052
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Luciano Vecchio did some redesigns mixing Jean's classic color scheme and Marvel Girl look with other designs!





    I really like the second and fourth ones.
    #3 is my favorite of these. Wish that was her look when not in full-Phoenix mode, which should be reserved for the Cockrum design or White Phoenix of the Crown.

    We better get a big Jean-as-Phoenix moment before this era is over. It's not going to be a definitive X-run without it, though I also think they should wait until towards the end since Phoenix seems to have been driven into the ground in recent years and needs a bit of a recharge before being used again. But the whole stuff about about the Dominion fearing the Phoenix signals to me that Hickman is planning something.

  3. #4053
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    #3 is my favorite of these. Wish that was her look when not in full-Phoenix mode, which should be reserved for the Cockrum design or White Phoenix of the Crown.

    We better get a big Jean-as-Phoenix moment before this era is over. It's not going to be a definitive X-run without it, though I also think they should wait until towards the end since Phoenix seems to have been driven into the ground in recent years and needs a bit of a recharge before being used again. But the whole stuff about about the Dominion fearing the Phoenix signals to me that Hickman is planning something.
    Hickman said the reason Jean was using the Marvel Girl costume was because it was callback to when she wore it in the Phoenix Saga. It's coming, but it's going to be a while.

  4. #4054
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    Quote Originally Posted by v_jeovanne View Post
    The whole concept of X-men went back 30 or 40 years, not only Jean, it is quite common in the industry to return the characters to a recognizable state for the majority of the public, that is why there is that feeling of "normality" or continuity in the history.
    I don't think the concept went back 30-40 years. It's just Jean that is on the same patronizing role; marvel girl isn't the most iconic and familiat Jean.

  5. #4055
    Fantastic Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    people are free to talk,

    what it seems is that people have a hard time to deal with different opinions and doesn't care about harassment culture
    Can we all agree to not make assumptions about others opinions about real life issues based on opinions of a fictional character? There is no way we can know each otherís experiences especially with something as private as harassment. Jean and her fictional self will be aight, but the real life people who get accused of supporting abuse and sexual misconduct with no context may not be.

  6. #4056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Can we all agree to not make assumptions about others opinions about real life issues based on opinions of a fictional character? There is no way we can know each other’s experiences especially with something as private as harassment. Jean and her fictional self will be aight, but the real life people who get accused of supporting abuse and sexual misconduct with no context may not be.
    I think people have to be coherent on both fictional and real world matters, both influence each others on a alarming rate.

    I remember when people said that Jean couldn't date Bishop, but now it is all alright date Logan? where is the coherence

  7. #4057
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I think people have to be coherent on both fictional and real world matters, both influence each others on a alarming rate.

    I remember when people said that Jean couldn't date Bishop, but now it is all alright date Logan? where is the coherence
    As far as i remember there was only one person that was constanly complaining about Bishop in like every thread of Age of X-Man and he wasn't a fan of Jogan either. He was a Jott shipper all the way.
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  8. #4058
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I don't think the concept went back 30-40 years. It's just Jean that is on the same patronizing role; marvel girl isn't the most iconic and familiat Jean.
    well if you analyze it a little we have things within the history that have not been seen for many years, Morrison did at the time retell a recognizable story with some "modern" changes but essentially the same story, you focus on Jean that's why you perceive that setback.
    The interesting thing has to come later, but you (apparently) are already closing yourself completely to what will happen from now on. Time to time, the stories are better analyzed when they conclude.

  9. #4059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Can we all agree to not make assumptions about others opinions about real life issues based on opinions of a fictional character? There is no way we can know each other’s experiences especially with something as private as harassment. Jean and her fictional self will be aight, but the real life people who get accused of supporting abuse and sexual misconduct with no context may not be.
    The reason this is troubling is if people can't pick this up in a comic book it's doubtful they'll do it in real life. It's not about Jean, it's the things done to the character which happen in real life.

  10. #4060
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    Quote Originally Posted by v_jeovanne View Post
    well if you analyze it a little we have things within the history that have not been seen for many years, Morrison did at the time retell a recognizable story with some "modern" changes but essentially the same story, you focus on Jean that's why you perceive that setback.
    The interesting thing has to come later, but you (apparently) are already closing yourself completely to what will happen from now on. Time to time, the stories are better analyzed when they conclude.
    i'm not sure I explained myself. I think only Jean was regressed, every other character are on their modern characterization.
    i'm closing myself to what will happen? why?
    yeah I agree that stories are better analyzed after them end and we can check all developments.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    As far as i remember there was only one person that was constanly complaining about Bishop in like every thread of Age of X-Man and he wasn't a fan of Jogan either. He was a Jott shipper all the way.
    I saw much more than just 1 person saying that about Bishop.Lots of people saying it wasn't consensual too.
    but Logan now is fine

  11. #4061
    Fantastic Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The reason this is troubling is if people can't pick this up in a comic book it's doubtful they'll do it in real life. It's not about Jean, it's the things done to the character which happen in real life.
    But I don’t think anyone was denying that what Logan did back in the day was wrong. That aspect of their relationship has definitely been erased/ retconned over time and certainly doesn’t show up in the comic that was released this week. Comics are a weird medium in that they are never ending stories written by a whole bunch of writers. One writer may present Logan as a creep while others don’t.

    If the current issue at hand had presented Logan as harassing Jean I woulda been quick to cancel Percy and call out the book, but I can’t control what CC wrote 40 years. All I’m saying is that someone can deeply care about these issues and not feel the need to get mad about Jean’s choice to have a consensual make out session with Logan in this issue.

  12. #4062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    But I don’t think anyone was denying that what Logan did back in the day was wrong. That aspect of their relationship has definitely been erased/ retconned over time and certainly doesn’t show up in the comic that was released this week. Comics are a weird medium in that they are never ending stories written by a whole bunch of writers. One writer may present Logan as a creep while others don’t.

    If the current issue at hand had presented Logan as harassing Jean I woulda been quick to cancel Percy and call out the book, but I can’t control what CC wrote 40 years. All I’m saying is that someone can deeply care about these issues and not feel the need to get mad about Jean’s choice to have a consensual make out session with Logan in this issue.
    it was never retconned, as it went and happened again on Casey. people are saying that is not harassment because it happened in 80s, but it also happened on 2000s. I even posted a episode with Emma.
    it wasn't a isolate. Logan was a big creep all these years holding for jean, he even had a part of her hair to smell.

    Well people will ignore it because they ship them. This isn't the way to deal with harassment, "oh now it is consensual" isn't gonna work. Women came to talk about how wrong this was with me before, how offensive it was Jean just back with her harasser.

  13. #4063
    Incredible Member regg215's Avatar
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    Thrilled to see Jean and Logan appear to be actually happening in main continuity but not thrilled that this is the way it is going down. While the X-books are interesting now, something about the whole story seems off and I feel like eventually will just be swept away as some of out of character thing that gets retconned.I know some fans like it but the whole open relationship with Cyke/Jean just seems weird and it would have been better in my opinion to just have Logan and Jean try a relationship without that element.

    As far as how Logan used to treat Jean, there is almost no relationship in all of comics, that would hold up to today's standards of a healthy relationship, from the 30-90's in comics were an absolutely different time and while it doesn't excuse bad behavior, social norms, the nature of relationships and healthy dating standards were seen differently in pop culture, not an excuse just facts. Comics are an evolving medium that sorta picks and chooses what stories they want to embrace, especially in X-men comics, no x-men characters have had healthy relationships, cyclops has done horrible stuff, logan, Colossus, Gambit, Kitty, Etc. If all of continuity was embraced on these characters none of them would be truly likeable by today's standards.

    Aside from all the Jean and Logan discussion, it was great to see Jean portrayed as the powerhouse character she should be and hopefully this continues in future issues.
    Last edited by regg215; 07-10-2020 at 09:07 PM.
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  14. #4064
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    i'm not sure I explained myself. I think only Jean was regressed, every other character are on their modern characterization.
    i'm closing myself to what will happen? why?
    yeah I agree that stories are better analyzed after them end and we can check all developments.



    I saw much more than just 1 person saying that about Bishop.Lots of people saying it wasn't consensual too.
    but Logan now is fine
    because again as I was saying, the characters have returned to a recognizable stage for the majority, although they have a modern image the characters are in situations of 30 or 40 years ago, love triangles, living on an island, union of Heroes and villains are things we have seen many times.
    The current image of Jean is the one that most remembers, Scott's girlfriend / wife, flirting with Logan, we already have the character that many remember, so from now on theoretically we will have to witness what they have prepared for Jean, it can be horrible or great, but you have to read it. I am also enraged by the last pages of X-force, but I prefer not to have hasty conclusions about something that has not yet finished.

  15. #4065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    But I don’t think anyone was denying that what Logan did back in the day was wrong. That aspect of their relationship has definitely been erased/ retconned over time and certainly doesn’t show up in the comic that was released this week. Comics are a weird medium in that they are never ending stories written by a whole bunch of writers. One writer may present Logan as a creep while others don’t.
    We've had people say Logan did nothing wrong. It was more than one writer, he did this when Louise Simonson wrote him. Unless retconned whats every writer writes is canon, are you sure those incidents were retconned out?

    If the current issue at hand had presented Logan as harassing Jean I woulda been quick to cancel Percy and call out the book, but I can’t control what CC wrote 40 years. All I’m saying is that someone can deeply care about these issues and not feel the need to get mad about Jean’s choice to have a consensual make out session with Logan in this issue.
    I'm only talking about the harassment he did in the past, not the consensual relationship they have now. The latter didn't stop the former being wrong when he did it and it worryingly creates the narrative that "nice guys" should continue harassing girls until they give in eventually.

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