Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Havok83]

Where is this from?

Savage Hulk

https://screenrant.com/xmen-jean-grey-she-hulk-comic/

[Devaishwarya]

Does Jean usually go commando under the mini-dress? Or was it just that one time then the Gamma experiment happened?
Hmmm...

[Marvelboy1974]

What if #betsybraddock gave #JeanGrey her Asrar outfit when she became Captain Britain so that Jean could have an updated #marvelwoman costume?

[Havok83]

Lower body is good but I dont like the V-neck for her

[Wiccan]

What if #betsybraddock gave #JeanGrey her Asrar outfit when she became Captain Britain so that Jean could have an updated #marvelwoman costume?

Amazing. I always adored Betsy's new costume(RIP).

[Conor]

What if #betsybraddock gave #JeanGrey her Asrar outfit when she became Captain Britain so that Jean could have an updated #marvelwoman costume?

I love everything about this idea.

[Celestialbodies]

I will hate myself for getting back in the weeds but what the heck..

In New X-men it was Scott who became cold with Jean. He stopped being physically intimate with her. He stopped talking to her about his feelings, etc. Scott was the issue as he was recovering from his merger with Apocalypse. He didn't think Xavier or Jean would relate to what he was going through because to them possession was an occupational hazard.

Scott was the problem in the marriage going by the story that was written and published. So it doesn't really matter what Morrison may have said in an interview or what he believed. I don't think he ever said Jean was a bad wife. I do think there was an interview where he talked about Jean evolving or transforming into Phoenix and implied or stated that it didn't help the situation.

Again, how was it written? What does the actual source material say or imply? The problem was Scott was distant and cold, not so much Jean. Now as the series progressed Scott dealt with his feelings with his therapy with Emma while Jean was doing her own thing and becoming Phoenix. I think Morrison wanted to show how Scott and Jean were affected differently from mergers/possessions/evolving whatever you want to call it. Scott went from Apocalypse merger to back to being Scott and Jean experienced secondary mutation (got her tk back) and her powers began to evolve and she started manifesting the phoenix.

They grew apart.

I found a quote:



https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/869889.html



Again Morrison can say what he wants, but the story clearly shows the marriage problems began with Scott. He stopped being the husband before Jean started being "godlike".

I truly enjoy Morrison, but his interviews will never NOT make me uncomfortable he frame them around Jean being solely responsible for whether Scott is happy or not and as Emma being his consolation prize for Jean not making him happy. The implications raised by killing her off so she won't be in the way of Scott's happiness is its own conversation. Thankfully whether intentional or not he didn't allow this to affect how he portrayed the character and for that I'll always be grateful. It's a catch-22 with writers someone being a fan of your favorite isn't always a good thing looking at you Rosenberg, and you Guggs with Kitty in X-men Gold.

If you really want to get deep in the weeds here though, this story is like a picture perfect example of the madonna-whore complex in action. Scott is attracted to Emma specifically because she's beneath him, her aristocratic pretensions notwithstanding, and thus is disposable, someone who he can use for his own needs without ever giving a thought to hers, and who can be unceremoniously cast aside when she ceases to be useful to him. Of course, you could never picture him, or any other character for that matter, treating Jean this way, even with the Dark Phoenix baggage she's still the embodiment of purity and perfection that's eternally on the highest pedestal.

And to some extent, this sort of dynamic is at work out of universe as well. Emma is, for all of the spotlight she got during the Rightclops era, a secondary character to the franchise that can be put into any random story and treated like a joke without really raising any eyebrows, which paradoxically makes her a pretty versatile character because writers aren't afraid to throw her in some arbitrary setting just to get slapped around. But Jean, on the other hand, must be the center of attention whenever and wherever she appears, and there are only so many stories you can tell about someone who is loved and admired by all.

And here's why I've always been uncomfortable it did not help that editors, executives, and writers went all in on the Jean bashing for years thereafter stating she was a teenage first love, which he outgrew thanks to Emma making him a MAN. How truly dark a time it was under Quesada he was not a fan of Jean.

While I'm at it let me again say Morrison can say whatever in an in interview and I have another good example to this point. Exodus Cloak (a user here) used to argue that Emma bested Jean in the silent issue because in a Wizard interview Morrison said Emma humiliated Jean or something to that effect. He used to post the scan to try to prove a point that was easily debunked by the New X-men issue itself.

In the issue Jean did all the heavy lifting and Morrison's own script shows that Emma wasn't powerful enough to go further in Xavier's mind. In the issue Jean is shown to be powerful and in the script Morrison likens Jean to a 'rockstar'. Emma did stick her tongue out at Jean when Jean fell into the water and had looked toward Emma for help, but that was it. Jean emerged from the water and did what had to be done.

At the end of the issue Jean sarcastically thanks Emma for the help (Emma wasn't any help).

So yes a writer can say whatever or mischaracterize his own work but it doesn't change the source material. We go by what is written in the stories so it doesn't matter if Morrison blamed Jean's transformation on the marriage problems when in the book they were having issues before she even manifested the Phoenix. And the marriage issues were said to be from Scott and his issues. Period. I don't know how I can make this any clearer. It all seems so simple. I mean read the books for yourself. I'm sure Jean's transformation didnt help but at that point Scott and Jean were doing their own thing (one disaster after another, Jean going to Hong Kong, after the fight with Emma Scott bolts, and they only meet up again when Jean is killed by Xorneto).

Oh, I distinctly remember this specifically, and the time period here on these boards when it was all the rage to bash Jean on every level to validate, Emma's tenure within the X-men. The "issue" was a hypothetically posed either to or by Morrison of what would happen if Jean and Emma squared off without the PF, Jean won but Morrison did state something to the effect of in a number of different scenarios it was possible for Emma to get the win based on the situation or context.

The X-men Monday is out with Russell Dautermann.

Here is the link:

https://aiptcomics.com/2020/06/22/x-...ell-dauterman/

a few choice quotes:



Dauterman has good taste



and finally...

Wow, so refreshing to hear creators talk positively about Jean it's so infrequent even rarer to hear them talk about Jean in a way that highlights so many positives regarding her characterization. I still feel we haven't scratched the surface of the variance in how writers could use her if they expanded their idea of what makes a character ticks and remove her from the box I feel she's often relegated to.


And COMPLETELY AGREED, with him on her costume, which makes me think it's intentional and not in a good way. If Dauterman is able to highlight so eloquently so many problematic issues with Jean Grey in 2020 using that costume and outside of GSX only that costume. Tell me so does Hickman, moreover Dauterman specifically requested a costume change for that issue, so its not like Hickman hasn't been confront with how ill-logical it is for Jean to be wearing that when EVERYONE else has better costumes and Emma changes costumes every issue. Although with Emma I have tbf I've always thought that having a variety of costumes is in line with her character, and love to see it.

[Celestialbodies]

Some Jean content just because:

Five telepaths and telekinetics struggling to subdue Jean



Telekinetically analyzing blood on what I assume is the molecular level

[Havok83]

That time Mystique masqueraded around as Jean



Did anything ever come out of this? Did she trick anyone into thinking Jean had been brought back?

[Cruelrain]

During the secret invasion arc, it would have been fun seeing her teammates reacting to her.

Sadly the skrull impersonating her was killed by Black Widow.

[MechaJeanix]

Some of my all time fav Jean panels:

Attachment 97913

Attachment 97914

[Del torro]

That time Mystique masqueraded around as Jean



Did anything ever come out of this? Did she trick anyone into thinking Jean had been brought back?

She fooled Nate grey... Which is weird. When she pretended to be Xavier, Emma frost immediately sniffed her out, she said two high level Telepaths would immediately recognize themselves or something like that, I guess Nate was disoriented from reforming his body

[Phoenixx9]

Savage Hulk

https://screenrant.com/xmen-jean-grey-she-hulk-comic/

Thanks!

Jean looks like she had some awesome amount of power in that story. I would love to read it.

[SerCo]

What if #betsybraddock gave #JeanGrey her Asrar outfit when she became Captain Britain so that Jean could have an updated #marvelwoman costume?

This... is actually a very acceptable costume for Jean.

[Askani's Flame]

She fooled Nate grey... Which is weird. When she pretended to be Xavier, Emma frost immediately sniffed her out, she said two high level Telepaths would immediately recognize themselves or something like that, I guess Nate was disoriented from reforming his body

Nate had been nerfed upon being reconstituted and extremely low-level powers when this happened. So that's how she could fool him.