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  1. #1786
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor View Post
    Was this confirmed? For some reason, I thought Hellion’s Maddie was just gonna be another back-up clone in Sinister’s arsenal, much like the Maddie clones in gowns who appeared in AvX.
    Not it hasnt. She's literally had one scene. I dont think she's a backup clone though bc she went after the Maraurders so she has a persnal vendetta against them. The clones we saw in AvX were essentially Jean clones with none of Maddie's memories. We dont know where she came from or what her backstory is, although I would love it if its the Maddie from X-men v4 to keep things simple (or as simple as can be)

  2. #1787
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor View Post
    Was this confirmed? For some reason, I thought Hellion’s Maddie was just gonna be another back-up clone in Sinister’s arsenal, much like the Maddie clones in gowns who appeared in AvX.
    JDW said it on an X-men monday, I don't remember which one sadly

  3. #1788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor View Post
    Was this confirmed? For some reason, I thought Hellion’s Maddie was just gonna be another back-up clone in Sinister’s arsenal, much like the Maddie clones in gowns who appeared in AvX.
    This Maddie created pentagons. She’s using sorcery. This is the Goblin Queen. Madelyne was a psychic ghost in both X-Man, and as the Red Queen, until she got a new body in the second Sisterhood storyline. Arkea turned the dead body of Ana Cortéz into another Jean Grey clone, and the Enchantress moved Maddie in there, resurrecting her.

  4. #1789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    I have to disagree, she's a powerful magic user but she can't compete with Jean in terms of Telepathy, saying she needs the Phoenix Force to beat Maddie is a reach imo.

    Depends if she is the goblin queen or just the red queen, her power level varies
    Sure. She has the same telepathic powers. She has the same DNA. Major psionic powers, plus magic plus some Phoenix power.

    So yes if the Goblin Queen went all out Jean would have to become Phoenix to beat her.

    In fact it for Inferno the demons didn’t disappear until Jean accepted the Phoenix fragment that had given Maddie life.
    Last edited by WallStreeter; 04-03-2020 at 07:11 PM.

  5. #1790
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    This Maddie created pentagons. She’s using sorcery. This is the Goblin Queen. Madelyne was a psychic ghost in both X-Man, and as the Red Queen, until she got a new body in the second Sisterhood storyline. Arkea turned the dead body of Ana Cortéz into another Jean Grey clone, and the Enchantress moved Maddie in there, resurrecting her.
    her history is messy messy messy. Idk if I want Wells to even try to clarify it or just let us roll with our own interpretations lol

  6. #1791
    Fantastic Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Sure. She has the same telepathic powers. She has the same DNA. Major psionic powers, plus magic plus some Phoenix power.

    So yes if the Goblin Queen went all out Jean would have to become Phoenix to beat her.
    We usually put feats above statetements, of course she should have potential with Jean's dna but she lacks the feats in that department, but she's not a fodder i think she's around the level of Telepaths like Betsy, Stepford Cuckoos and Base Cable with the T-O virus in pure Telepathy (she has some good showing especially with her psychic vampirism)

  7. #1792
    The Great Bull Del torro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    They did a bit of that following Inferno. Jean reclaimed the portion of herself that was used to create Madelyne and the Phoenix spark that awakened the clone. The personalities (Madelyne and Phoenix) would manifest when Jean was under duress. The artists (Paul Smith in this case) signaled the switching personalities with Jean’s hairstyle changing: parted in the middle with bangs = Madelyne (evil clone!), Wavy and full bodied = Phoenix (evil cosmic entity!). By the end of the “Judgement War” storyline vs the Celestials on an alien world, Jean rid herself of both echoes.

    Attachment 95183



    That's why I said at the end that I feel like she didn't absorb everything.

    Also, there's the possibility that when she was releasing the Phoenix energy from herself in judgement wars, she may have also released part of Madelyne with it (since she was rejecting both personalities).
    That would explain why the Madelyne that was brought back by Nate grey was called burned out embers of the Phoenix that was waiting on the astral plane.

    It's not a bad explanation

  8. #1793
    The Great Bull Del torro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    We usually put feats above statetements, of course she should have potential with Jean's dna but she lacks the feats in that department, but she's not a fodder i think she's around the level of Telepaths like Betsy, Stepford Cuckoos and Base Cable with the T-O virus in pure Telepathy (she has some good showing especially with her psychic vampirism)
    Yep, she doesn't really have feats on Jeans level when it comes to telekinesis and telepathy (excluding when she's using magic). One could even argue that everything she did up to Inferno wasn't under her own powers, because she wasn't even displaying powers before the Phoenix force came to her in sinisters lab (he considered her a failure). So you could dismiss everything she did as the Phoenix.

    Anyways, here's a Madelyne respect thread on comicvine if anyone's interested

  9. #1794
    Mighty Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del torro View Post
    That's why I said at the end that I feel like she didn't absorb everything.

    Also, there's the possibility that when she was releasing the Phoenix energy from herself in judgement wars, she may have also released part of Madelyne with it (since she was rejecting both personalities).
    That would explain why the Madelyne that was brought back by Nate grey was called burned out embers of the Phoenix that was waiting on the astral plane.

    It's not a bad explanation
    And supported by what Jean says on panel in X-Factor #50 Judgement War finale
    35985E67-10EB-443A-8074-A3551CCC9566.jpg

  10. #1795
    Spectacular Member Redshipper's Avatar
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    I am a huge Jean Grey fan and I am not happy with the way things are right now with resoect to her. So I am posting this here-

    It is a running joke that the fate of the X-ladies is determined by who Scott wants. He wants Jean, Maddie is conveniently made evil; He want Emma and cheats on Jean, instead of handling it Jean is conveniently killed because God forbid she should want anyone but Scott. Now Scott can't decide who to choose between two fine women, he gets them both. There is no reason Jean and Emma should share Scott, they are barely even courteous to each other. But Scott Summers gets what Scott Summers wants.

    It is frustrating to see strong independent female characters being reduced to mere objects for Scott Summer's convenience. And there is nothing I can do to call Marvel out on this.

    I feel like Marvel is taking a step back in how they should be portraying women. And strong women at that. I have waited so long for Marvel to bring Jean back in a way that is satisfying and organic to who she was.

    Also, I think it sends the wrong message - that cheating on your spouse is something that DOES go unpunished. I would have loved for Marvel to have had the courage to let Jean move on with her life, cut ties with the past but alas it will never happen.

  11. #1796
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redshipper View Post
    I am a huge Jean Grey fan and I am not happy with the way things are right now with resoect to her. So I am posting this here-

    It is a running joke that the fate of the X-ladies is determined by who Scott wants. He wants Jean, Maddie is conveniently made evil; He want Emma and cheats on Jean, instead of handling it Jean is conveniently killed because God forbid she should want anyone but Scott. Now Scott can't decide who to choose between two fine women, he gets them both. There is no reason Jean and Emma should share Scott, they are barely even courteous to each other. But Scott Summers gets what Scott Summers wants.

    It is frustrating to see strong independent female characters being reduced to mere objects for Scott Summer's convenience. And there is nothing I can do to call Marvel out on this.

    I feel like Marvel is taking a step back in how they should be portraying women. And strong women at that. I have waited so long for Marvel to bring Jean back in a way that is satisfying and organic to who she was.

    Also, I think it sends the wrong message - that cheating on your spouse is something that DOES go unpunished. I would have loved for Marvel to have had the courage to let Jean move on with her life, cut ties with the past but alas it will never happen.
    This isn't the unpopular opinion thread! Lol I kid, of course. You are entirely correct, but A LOT of people see Jean Grey's character as mainly Cyclops' beard, as in that aspect comes before all else. Which is why she is not allowed to do much or explore new scenarios. You won't find much support for this opinion on the boards, but it's all truth.

    Now get ready for her to deal with yet another "Cyclops' ex" story for the umpteenth time. Yay.

    Or maybe they'll actually keep that mess in Hellions. I guess we'll see.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 04-04-2020 at 08:58 AM.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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  12. #1797
    Spectacular Member Redshipper's Avatar
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    Thank you!

    I just needed to vent.

  13. #1798
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    This isn't the unpopular opinion thread! Lol I kid, of course. You are entirely correct, but A LOT of people see Jean Grey's character as mainly Cyclops' beard, as in that aspect comes before all else. Which is why she is not allowed to do much or explore new scenarios. You won't find much support for this opinion on the boards, but it's all truth.

    Now get ready for her to deal with yet another "Cyclops' ex" story for the umpteenth time. Yay.

    Or maybe they'll actually keep that mess in Hellions. I guess we'll see.
    I think maddie gonna lead for some Inferno later on, I hope she and Jean won't fight for Scott. Unless it is to screw him up, because these two were treated like garbage by him.

    Would be nice Jean explore more things, but Scott always come first for the writers

  14. #1799
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    The writers always tend to write Jean and Scott together because, for each other, everything always ends up going back to them for Jean and for Scott. They're the first couple of the X-Men. That doesn't mean they need to be defined by the fact that they're together - and outside of a short time in the 90s, I don't think they were - but to act like they aren't important to one another is just negligent. I also don't think that Jean's position in the current X-Men has anything to do with Scott, or how she's been written.

    If there's any single male character that's to blame for Jean taking a backseat among the books it's Charles Xavier, who has literally forced every single character back into a supporting role in comparison to himself. The X-Office has been making it a point not to shove the fact that Jean and Scott are back together down our throats, and the biggest confirmation that we've had about that fact comes from supplemental information on the Marvel website. Blaming him isn't fair.

    And we could be in a much worse place right now. We're not going as good as when Jean was the face and in charge of the X-Men, during the end of the Resurrxion era, but we still have Jean as one of the leading characters in X-Force (and being written very well by Benjamin Percy), frequently appearing in X-Men where her portrayal continues to massively improve, and she starred in the recent Giant-Sized issue.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  15. #1800
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redshipper View Post
    I am a huge Jean Grey fan and I am not happy with the way things are right now with resoect to her. So I am posting this here-

    It is a running joke that the fate of the X-ladies is determined by who Scott wants. He wants Jean, Maddie is conveniently made evil; He want Emma and cheats on Jean, instead of handling it Jean is conveniently killed because God forbid she should want anyone but Scott. Now Scott can't decide who to choose between two fine women, he gets them both. There is no reason Jean and Emma should share Scott, they are barely even courteous to each other. But Scott Summers gets what Scott Summers wants.

    It is frustrating to see strong independent female characters being reduced to mere objects for Scott Summer's convenience. And there is nothing I can do to call Marvel out on this.

    I feel like Marvel is taking a step back in how they should be portraying women. And strong women at that. I have waited so long for Marvel to bring Jean back in a way that is satisfying and organic to who she was.

    Also, I think it sends the wrong message - that cheating on your spouse is something that DOES go unpunished. I would have loved for Marvel to have had the courage to let Jean move on with her life, cut ties with the past but alas it will never happen.
    All Scott needed was say "I'm sorry" and Jean was already back with him, what a freaking joke, writers will never make him suffer a bad consequence.

    it's really frustrating that we wait jean come back for so long and instantly she is right back together with Scott, we couldn't even get some years with her single.
    Funny that Scott got more single years that Jean, easy to see where their priority is.

    I'm really tired of Scott treating women like garbage, Maddie and Jean are easily his biggest victim, and Jean seems to not get out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    The writers always tend to write Jean and Scott together because, for each other, everything always ends up going back to them for Jean and for Scott. They're the first couple of the X-Men. That doesn't mean they need to be defined by the fact that they're together - and outside of a short time in the 90s, I don't think they were - but to act like they aren't important to one another is just negligent. I also don't think that Jean's position in the current X-Men has anything to do with Scott, or how she's been written.

    If there's any single male character that's to blame for Jean taking a backseat among the books it's Charles Xavier, who has literally forced every single character back into a supporting role in comparison to himself. The X-Office has been making it a point not to shove the fact that Jean and Scott are back together down our throats, and the biggest confirmation that we've had about that fact comes from supplemental information on the Marvel website. Blaming him isn't fair.

    And we could be in a much worse place right now. We're not going as good as when Jean was the face and in charge of the X-Men, during the end of the Resurrxion era, but we still have Jean as one of the leading characters in X-Force (and being written very well by Benjamin Percy), frequently appearing in X-Men where her portrayal continues to massively improve, and she starred in the recent Giant-Sized issue.
    They aren't forcing jean and Scott down our throats? Everytime jean show up on X-men she is with Scott, on giant size she is also with him and on the tiki bar she is also with him. They are a happy family with a house on the moon.
    Last edited by spirit2011; 04-04-2020 at 07:05 PM.

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