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  1. #5851
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    What should Jean's new superhero name be? Leaning toward T-Mobile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peanutsinspace View Post
    You are a broken record. You should stop.
    People will disagree with you sometimes. It's going to be ok.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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  2. #5852
    Fantastic Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    Mardi Gras, since she got her costume at a Party City

  3. #5853
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Mardi Gras, since she got her costume at a Party City
    They didn't have the gloves in her size but she got it anyway.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  4. #5854

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    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    I don't think so, Scott thoughts are a lot more important than her. She had no problem with council before and now she is out
    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    The worst part is that he doesn't deserve her back, but as everything is build on superficialism on krako the perfect mother is back with perfect father and their teenage below average son. It's crazy how much recent chaarcterization was thrown up since Hickman started writing.

    It was great to see Jean say "to me, my x-men" but it wasn't earned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    The complaning can get a bit annoying, but now more than ever it's hard to separate Jean and Scott, when they're working as a tight unit.

    Which again, I do like, years ago I would have never thought I'd see them being Nathan's parents and having to choose to put him first during a major event. What I don't like is that Jean is the one who has to lose anything for it. Her having a seat on the council is what she deserved and what made up for her not being a leader of any team like she was before.


    I loved the issues, but these are my main concerns with Hickman's Jean she continues to feel like what a casual reader thinks Jean sounds like. I enjoy the dynamics between Scott/Jean/Nathan but as a fan of Jean it is clear the intent is to develop Scott/Nathan's relationship with Jean kind of as the accessory to Scott. There isn't an effort to expand Jean/Nathan relationship yes she cares for her son but the way the story beats are laid out feels hollow to me. Additionally, while I'm open to Jean's new dynamics after leaving the council it didn't feel like the major moment it should have been and for me a lot of that has to do with Jean not having much agency in regards to that role. Same as the "To me my, X-men" line Scott spent the majority of the issue as the "leader" only for Jean to be thrown a bone. I feel like we're experiencing Jean's story through Scott's narrative and it doesn't feel like the character is growing outside of X-force. Things just feel if you removed her from any of the stories Hickman has been writing literally nothing would change. I don't feel the same way regarding Scott, or any of the other characters he uses.

    I'm getting surface level from Jean, she has yet to have a moment that feel like Jean to me, and a lot of that has to do with much of her use outside of X-force is a peripheral role to the story even though she's been very involved.

  5. #5855
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    I loved the issues, but these are my main concerns with Hickman's Jean she continues to feel like what a casual reader thinks Jean sounds like. I enjoy the dynamics between Scott/Jean/Nathan but as a fan of Jean it is clear the intent is to develop Scott/Nathan's relationship with Jean kind of as the accessory to Scott. There isn't an effort to expand Jean/Nathan relationship yes she cares for her son but the way the story beats are laid out feels hollow to me. Additionally, while I'm open to Jean's new dynamics after leaving the council it didn't feel like the major moment it should have been and for me a lot of that has to do with Jean not having much agency in regards to that role. Same as the "To me my, X-men" line Scott spent the majority of the issue as the "leader" only for Jean to be thrown a bone. I feel like we're experiencing Jean's story through Scott's narrative and it doesn't feel like the character is growing outside of X-force. Things just feel if you removed her from any of the stories Hickman has been writing literally nothing would change. I don't feel the same way regarding Scott, or any of the other characters he uses.

    I'm getting surface level from Jean, she has yet to have a moment that feel like Jean to me, and a lot of that has to do with much of her use outside of X-force is a peripheral role to the story even though she's been very involved.
    Its ironic you write this as the biggest complaint in the Scott thread is that he is Commander Cameo. He appears alot but rarely gets to do anything. He hasnt had much development or agency in the current era. His role as Commander Captain has primarily been fluff as he hasnt been a central figure to the narrative or much of a leader, despite the early allusion of that in Hickman's main book

  6. #5856
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    I loved the issues, but these are my main concerns with Hickman's Jean she continues to feel like what a casual reader thinks Jean sounds like. I enjoy the dynamics between Scott/Jean/Nathan but as a fan of Jean it is clear the intent is to develop Scott/Nathan's relationship with Jean kind of as the accessory to Scott. There isn't an effort to expand Jean/Nathan relationship yes she cares for her son but the way the story beats are laid out feels hollow to me. Additionally, while I'm open to Jean's new dynamics after leaving the council it didn't feel like the major moment it should have been and for me a lot of that has to do with Jean not having much agency in regards to that role. Same as the "To me my, X-men" line Scott spent the majority of the issue as the "leader" only for Jean to be thrown a bone. I feel like we're experiencing Jean's story through Scott's narrative and it doesn't feel like the character is growing outside of X-force. Things just feel if you removed her from any of the stories Hickman has been writing literally nothing would change. I don't feel the same way regarding Scott, or any of the other characters he uses.

    I'm getting surface level from Jean, she has yet to have a moment that feel like Jean to me, and a lot of that has to do with much of her use outside of X-force is a peripheral role to the story even though she's been very involved.
    I kind of feel this. If they were going to emphasize the Scott/ Nathan dynamic so much than they at least could have done the same for Jean/Rachel.

  7. #5857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Its ironic you write this as the biggest complaint in the Scott thread is that he is Commander Cameo. He appears alot but rarely gets to do anything. He hasnt had much development or agency in the current era. His role as Commander Captain has primarily been fluff as he hasnt been a central figure to the narrative or much of a leader, despite the early allusion of that in Hickman's main book
    It was clear that Scott was waiting for a big moment to break out, he just got that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I kind of feel this. If they were going to emphasize the Scott/ Nathan dynamic so much than they at least could have done the same for Jean/Rachel.
    Writers: What is a Rachel?
    Last edited by baxer; 11-25-2020 at 06:59 PM.

  8. #5858

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Its ironic you write this as the biggest complaint in the Scott thread is that he is Commander Cameo. He appears alot but rarely gets to do anything. He hasnt had much development or agency in the current era. His role as Commander Captain has primarily been fluff as he hasnt been a central figure to the narrative or much of a leader, despite the early allusion of that in Hickman's main book
    I think the difference for me is even though Scott isn't the sole focus of the narrative which seems to be the issue for his fans. His thoughts and feelings are consistently at the forefront of whatever story he is in. From the dawn of POX/HOX you could feel and understand his fatherly relationship with Xavier and Magneto, his bromance with Wolverine, his mentor-like relationship with Magik, his rather obvious familiarity and trust in Emma, and his deep connection to Nathan or even his relationships with Vulcan and Havok. There is a concerted effort to give Scott fully realized relationships and these relationship are always expanded upon whenever he appears.


    Outside of X-force, I couldn't tell you a thing about what Jean thinks of Xavier in the current era, I don't know what lengths she'd go to for Storm as their bond again has not been developed, what about her relationship to Polaris, or Gambit or heck even her relationship with Rachel. She hasn't had a single moment outside of Scott/Logan for us to know what she feels, I'd kill for a issue similar to Scott/Kurt discussion in X-men. She is often used for exposition but none of it ever imo feels specific to Jean, she feels like she is simply there to state or do what the plot demands then she back to being rather inconsequential to the overall narrative. Even her placement on the Quiet Council, literally everyone has something going on, on the side except for Jean some plot-point or development currently underway or being consistently referenced.

  9. #5859
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    If you were reading during the halcyon Scemma days, you know characters in the "leader's girlfriend" role do not get much in terms of connections with other characters outside of the leader.

    Most Jean content will be her repeating the orders she receives to the rest of the team and letting the team know that the leader has a plan.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  10. #5860

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    If you were reading during the halcyon Scemma days, you know characters in the "leader's girlfriend" role do not get much in terms of connections with other characters outside of the leader.

    Most Jean content will be her repeating the orders she receives to the rest of the team and letting the team know that the leader has a plan.
    Maybe this is my issue, I just wish anything about Jean was further expounded upon. I don't care about feats or getting loads of attention, it would just be nice for Jean and Xavier to discuss the happenings of Krakoa. Given she just recently attempted the same thing, would be nice to know how she felt about Magneto's presence influencing Xavier or vice versa. Hell does she have an opinion of Rachel, I mean Storm GS issue had her at deaths door and Jean was just like "We've done all we can do" no exhausting all avenues, no joining the mission to save her friends life. Just a few panels then nothing, again I'm just missing her heart, I know writers get it wrong more often than not. But she feels like she just goes through the motions just reacting to whatever new threat appears. Even the development she was getting in X-force hasn't been followed up on, if it had maybe that could have been apart of her reasoning for accepting her lost of a seat on the QC. But nope, she just moves directly into the next thing she is obligated to react to.

  11. #5861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    If you were reading during the halcyon Scemma days, you know characters in the "leader's girlfriend" role do not get much in terms of connections with other characters outside of the leader.

    Most Jean content will be her repeating the orders she receives to the rest of the team and letting the team know that the leader has a plan.
    If Hickman is a big Emma fan, it would hurt to let Scott date Emma while Jean do her own thing?
    It's just nuts that Jean get back and get the same role without any explanation

    I crave for Jean get some solo exploration. I see some solos like black widow, captain marvel or even the new classic Ms Marvel and just think about all potential Jean could have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    Maybe this is my issue, I just wish anything about Jean was further expounded upon. I don't care about feats or getting loads of attention, it would just be nice for Jean and Xavier to discuss the happenings of Krakoa. Given she just recently attempted the same thing, would be nice to know how she felt about Magneto's presence influencing Xavier or vice versa. Hell does she have an opinion of Rachel, I mean Storm GS issue had her at deaths door and Jean was just like "We've done all we can do" no exhausting all avenues, no joining the mission to save her friends life. Just a few panels then nothing, again I'm just missing her heart, I know writers get it wrong more often than not. But she feels like she just goes through the motions just reacting to whatever new threat appears. Even the development she was getting in X-force hasn't been followed up on, if it had maybe that could have been apart of her reasoning for accepting her lost of a seat on the QC. But nope, she just moves directly into the next thing she is obligated to react to.
    Understand what you mean. Jean lacks a individual direction
    Krakoa is all limiting, it was a bad deal for her
    Last edited by baxer; 11-25-2020 at 08:33 PM.

  12. #5862
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    Maybe this is my issue, I just wish anything about Jean was further expounded upon. I don't care about feats or getting loads of attention, it would just be nice for Jean and Xavier to discuss the happenings of Krakoa. Given she just recently attempted the same thing, would be nice to know how she felt about Magneto's presence influencing Xavier or vice versa. Hell does she have an opinion of Rachel, I mean Storm GS issue had her at deaths door and Jean was just like "We've done all we can do" no exhausting all avenues, no joining the mission to save her friends life. Just a few panels then nothing, again I'm just missing her heart, I know writers get it wrong more often than not. But she feels like she just goes through the motions just reacting to whatever new threat appears. Even the development she was getting in X-force hasn't been followed up on, if it had maybe that could have been apart of her reasoning for accepting her lost of a seat on the QC. But nope, she just moves directly into the next thing she is obligated to react to.
    I have wanted Magneto and Jean to interact since that time she took an electromagnetic pulse to the face from him (or Xorn now, whatever) back in the Morrison. We got a little bit in that one issue of X-Force but he mostly just talked down to her without a response from her in that scene.

    Ultimately, her motivations are just not of import to the X-office. We are going to be dealing with that reality in extreme form for at least the next year. If she does anything in the immediate future beyond parrot whatever X-Men Leader is saying and cower in fear when the going gets tough, we'll have been blessed.

    Imagine all of her appearances for the next while being like House of X #4.

    Edit: I forgot, sorry. She does have motivations. Their names are Cyclops and Cable.

    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    If Hickman is a big Emma fan, it would hurt to let Scott date Emma while Jean do her own thing?
    It's just nuts that Jean get back and get the same role without any explanation

    I crave for Jean get some solo exploration. I see some solos like black widow, captain marvel or even the new classic Ms Marvel and just think about all potential Jean could have.



    Understand what you mean. Jean lacks a individual direction
    Krakoa is all limiting, it was a bad deal for her
    Solo exploration? Dude you'll be lucky to have her appear on a single panel separately, going forward. Lolololol
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 11-25-2020 at 10:55 PM.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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  13. #5863
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    From the Jean/Scott appreciation. I don't see how this can be denied as equal co-leadership with each of them leading differently - which someone better adept at couples/gender dynamics is better suited to analyze at length. Jean actually says she's ahead of Scott in her call to action, the reach out to each other symetrically, and she then physically. TAKES.THE.LEAD. after speechifying is done. She's a MARVEL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The current version of Scott and Jean as a couple are ranking up there as my favorite. They are truly equals in a way that we havent seen in a long time, if ever. The way they support each other and bounce off the other works well in so many ways and XOS exemplified that. They are a solid unit and work in unison to be two stronger individuals bound by love, family and a determination to fight. Love them







    The last time Jean got to do the To Me, my X-men line was when she was leading in Disassembled so to see Scott, the Captain Commander step back and let her lead the charge, spoke wonders of where they currently stand. He trusts her and supports her leadership and judgement

  14. #5864
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    Well Jean leaving the council means she'll be doing more fieldwork. I wonder if that SWORD spaceship is their new headquarters outside of Krakoa, like JLA or something.

    Not sure what Hickman's goal is having Jean lead the war cry "To Me My X-men", unless there's something in store for her. Crossing fingers.

  15. #5865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I have wanted Magneto and Jean to interact since that time she took an electromagnetic pulse to the face from him (or Xorn now, whatever) back in the Morrison. We got a little bit in that one issue of X-Force but he mostly just talked down to her without a response from her in that scene.

    Ultimately, her motivations are just not of import to the X-office. We are going to be dealing with that reality in extreme form for at least the next year. If she does anything in the immediate future beyond parrot whatever X-Men Leader is saying and cower in fear when the going gets tough, we'll have been blessed.

    Imagine all of her appearances for the next while being like House of X #4.

    Edit: I forgot, sorry. She does have motivations. Their names are Cyclops and Cable.
    hahaha this is so on point that I'm rage crying

    I was nice when Jean was written by peole that cared that she had a motivation.

    Solo exploration? Dude you'll be lucky to have her appear on a single panel separately, going forward. Lolololol
    Good see someone bringing me back to the cold reality of x-men. Avengers women get some nice solos

    Quote Originally Posted by mike7171 View Post
    Well Jean leaving the council means she'll be doing more fieldwork. I wonder if that SWORD spaceship is their new headquarters outside of Krakoa, like JLA or something.

    Not sure what Hickman's goal is having Jean lead the war cry "To Me My X-men", unless there's something in store for her. Crossing fingers.
    Sometime a war cry is just a war cry. Not everything Hickman does have a deeper meaning
    Last edited by baxer; 11-26-2020 at 09:01 AM.

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