Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

I guess I feel differently when it comes to Rachel and Cable, only because she's never really had developed relationships with either of them. That and I'm tired of Jean's relationships being limited to Scott and Logan. In the three years since she's been back the focus is consistently on her personal relationships hints dropped here and there. Yet all the other connections Jean has within the X-men have not been developed, the recent Giant Size is the most time she's spent with Storm since XM:R. It's those relationships which has made Jean such a compelling character and why Teen Jeen's appearance affected so many people, yet the adult version is so detached from those characters and relationships that should be meaningful.

The good thing for Red is that it build new relationships for Jean like gabby/Laura while we still had Jean team up with nightcrawler and Storm.

What was good also from teen Jean is that writers took her away from Logan and Scott, now we have it again and it is a bit boring. At least Percy is having Jean/Logan good moments so it isn't completely wasted. Aparently Percy can do miracles, I guess focusing more on friendship works better and is less creepy.

Rachel and cable are living on same house, so having them interacting and going to adventures is the best to do with what we have.
Also tired of people saying Jean is a awful mother, time to really change that. Let her interact with her kids in 2020!!!

It feels like she's losing so much of what makes her Jean, I'm fine with her meeting new people and experiences but a Jean without any of the relationships especially forming a deeper relationship with her children is a missed opportunity. Besides why does Cyke always get to play the hero, have his own personal struggles, while also relating to past and recent characters. Hell he just had an whole issue of X-men that was about him connecting with his kids and Jean is literally no where to be found

I don't know it's just weird for me how someone so known for her heart is used so casually in response to meaningful relationships in her life.

The thing is that men can be everything on comics, because male writers doesn't limit them. So we get Scott taking his kids to a adventure, talking like a bro to Wolverine at night, then talking about religions and crucible to nightcrawler. Scott calls Rachel to trip to chandilore and now it becomes a family travel.

You see the story being build and then you see how it is biased to favor male characters.

Yes, I know Cable found out that Scott and Jean were Slim and Redd but my point was that he didn’t much call Jean mom or mother despite her motherly role.

He always seemed closer to Scott who he did recognize as his father. Jean was and is a mother to him since she raised him. I just don’t want Jean saddled with the den mother role because of fear it will hinder the stories writers will tell about her. I don’t want a repeat of the early to mid 90’s.

I want to see Jean as a young woman herself who has her own stories but unfortunately she’s more often than not connected to Scott, Logan, and the time lost children.

Basically I don’t want Jean stuck in an X-men version of a Hallmark movie. Which I guess I’m thankful for X-force.

The way Hickman writes Jean is really close to a hallmark movie, even without interacting with the kids a lot

[phoenixzero23]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9hzBF5A-mL/
this will look great once finished
Attachment 94260

[Celestialbodies]

Yes, I know Cable found out that Scott and Jean were Slim and Redd but my point was that he didn’t much call Jean mom or mother despite her motherly role.

He always seemed closer to Scott who he did recognize as his father. Jean was and is a mother to him since she raised him. I just don’t want Jean saddled with the den mother role because of fear it will hinder the stories writers will tell about her. I don’t want a repeat of the early to mid 90’s.

I want to see Jean as a young woman herself who has her own stories but unfortunately she’s more often than not connected to Scott, Logan, and the time lost children.

Basically I don’t want Jean stuck in an X-men version of a Hallmark movie. Which I guess I’m thankful for X-force.

Completely understand where you're coming from Jean is often stuck in the den mother role without any of the positive qualities that can come with it. However personally it's different for me as Cable is her actual son, as well as it would be nice if she developed a relationship with Rachel. The concerns I have is XM:G and how Guggs had Jean treat Rachel, in a way you wouldn't expect Jean to respond, to walk around with her children alive and present and to not interact just doesn't feel like Jean. Idk you have characters not even attached to them being mentors and kinder while Jean is all wrapped up in her own devices. What's worse is she's going to be forced into interactions with both Scott and Logan which will mostly benefit them, yet she's not engaging in other meaningful relationships.

It would just be nice for once for Jean to be able to walk into herself completely without so consistently losing or aspects of her history being ignored.

The good thing for Red is that it build new relationships for Jean like gabby/Laura while we still had Jean team up with nightcrawler and Storm.

What was good also from teen Jean is that writers took her away from Logan and Scott, now we have it again and it is a bit boring. At least Percy is having Jean/Logan good moments so it isn't completely wasted. Aparently Percy can do miracles, I guess focusing more on friendship works better and is less creepy.

Rachel and cable are living on same house, so having them interacting and going to adventures is the best to do with what we have.
Also tired of people saying Jean is a awful mother, time to really change that. Let her interact with her kids in 2020!!!



The thing is that men can be everything on comics, because male writers doesn't limit them. So we get Scott taking his kids to a adventure, talking like a bro to Wolverine at night, then talking about religions and crucible to nightcrawler. Scott calls Rachel to trip to chandilore and now it becomes a family travel.

You see the story being build and then you see how it is biased to favor male characters.



The way Hickman writes Jean is really close to a hallmark movie, even without interacting with the kids a lot

Agreed on all point, Jean interacting with Rachel and Cable should be so easy she has so much in common with them. Yet so many areas of her history is just not used, and she's stuck in the "nice girl" role which is great but without any bite to it you end up with stories like Age of X-man and Extermination. She's very visible through both of those stories yet she's not given anything meaningful to do which makes them mostly forgettable where Jean is concerned. Which brings us to my point Age of X-man was about another of Jean's children dying a chance to do some really great character work for Jean and Nate. Yet I can't remember a single interaction they had of substance, compare that to how distraught Kid Cable was about bringing Scott back or any of their interactions since. There's a huge disconnect with Jean and writers wanting to explore who the character is and how she relates to others. We usually are given a taste then right back to the side-lines, Idk I just expected her to receive more attention and in less than three years she's just another X-character.




EDIT--

I just visited the Jean/Scott thread and on the first page I realized my issues with Jean at the current, outside of Percy her inner motivations aren't being explored at all. Her opinions and thoughts are only in relation to whatever topic is presented, but what she thinks isn't actualized. You have since the "relaunch" several instances of Scott/Logan/Emma just discussing a variety of topics yet Jean has not been given the same care, and I don't think she's going to be. Some think Hickman has a plan for her and she's currently on the back-burner but I don't think that's it I think for his tenure he doesn't have anything for her to do, unfortunately.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I think Hickman's plan for Jean is not too much different from what was seen in X-Men #1.

She is Cyclops' kids' mother. What more important and interesting story role could she possibly need?

[MechaJeanix]

I think Hickman's plan for Jean is not too much different from what was seen in X-Men #1.

She is Cyclops' kids' mother. What more important and interesting story role could she possibly need?

I’m hoping she comes into play later on. I think the omega mutants will be important, and all of them not just Franklin but I think that story is years off from now. I could be wrong though.

I want to see more of Jean in X-force and I want to see more of the Quiet Council. They need a miniseries. I also like that Jean guest stars in Hickman’s book, but like many of you I wish she did more. Maybe she will in the next few issues (or we might get more of the same).

[spirit2011]

Jean design by Tom reilly https://twitter.com/tomreillyart

I just think the head socks are too big

[spirit2011]

I think Hickman's plan for Jean is not too much different from what was seen in X-Men #1.

She is Cyclops' kids' mother. What more important and interesting story role could she possibly need?

The twelve first issue will have hints for all the years and stories by Hickman. If nothing happens in these 12 first issues doesn't present a hint for a story for jean I will completely give up

[Grey]

I’m just throwing this out there into the jean thread for no particular reason:

I haven’t kept up with x books since Xmen red. Before that it was XMB, EXM, ANXM (Jeen).

as someone who was reading comics for jean I’m just not that invested anymore once I hear something More interesting happening, I look forward to jumping back in.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I’m just throwing this out there into the jean thread for no particular reason:

I haven’t kept up with x books since Xmen red. Before that it was XMB, EXM, ANXM (Jeen).

as someone who was reading comics for jean I’m just not that invested anymore once I hear something More interesting happening, I look forward to jumping back in.

Do you mean that you didn't read Red?!

Eh. It was pretty predictable that nothing good or extremely interesting would happen with Jean once it was obvious they would be doing Jott again.

Anyway, hope you can get back involved soon!

[spirit2011]

Completely understand where you're coming from Jean is often stuck in the den mother role without any of the positive qualities that can come with it. However personally it's different for me as Cable is her actual son, as well as it would be nice if she developed a relationship with Rachel. The concerns I have is XM:G and how Guggs had Jean treat Rachel, in a way you wouldn't expect Jean to respond, to walk around with her children alive and present and to not interact just doesn't feel like Jean. Idk you have characters not even attached to them being mentors and kinder while Jean is all wrapped up in her own devices. What's worse is she's going to be forced into interactions with both Scott and Logan which will mostly benefit them, yet she's not engaging in other meaningful relationships.

It would just be nice for once for Jean to be able to walk into herself completely without so consistently losing or aspects of her history being ignored.

Pretty much what I think, if the kids are alive and close, use it to build relationships with Jean. non brainer
I read a spoiler review for Cable solo and there isn't mention of Jean. But there is Scott giving Cable a hardtime for tresspassing

Yep Scott and Logan taken too much of Jean time for relationships, and the relationships are written to serve the male characters

Even Emma had more of a mentorship with Rachel

Agreed on all point, Jean interacting with Rachel and Cable should be so easy she has so much in common with them. Yet so many areas of her history is just not used, and she's stuck in the "nice girl" role which is great but without any bite to it you end up with stories like Age of X-man and Extermination. She's very visible through both of those stories yet she's not given anything meaningful to do which makes them mostly forgettable where Jean is concerned. Which brings us to my point Age of X-man was about another of Jean's children dying a chance to do some really great character work for Jean and Nate. Yet I can't remember a single interaction they had of substance, compare that to how distraught Kid Cable was about bringing Scott back or any of their interactions since. There's a huge disconnect with Jean and writers wanting to explore who the character is and how she relates to others. We usually are given a taste then right back to the side-lines, Idk I just expected her to receive more attention and in less than three years she's just another X-character.

I don't think many on Age of X-men were really well done. It was mostly a filler event to take out Nate grey out of x-men books.
I really agree that Jean and nate could had better writing as son and mother.

kid cable and Scott is again another case of male characters having meaningful relationships.Mostly of writers are male, so fatherhood is the most important thing ever for them.

Motherhood i sthe elephant on the room for male writers

EDIT--

I just visited the Jean/Scott thread and on the first page I realized my issues with Jean at the current, outside of Percy her inner motivations aren't being explored at all. Her opinions and thoughts are only in relation to whatever topic is presented, but what she thinks isn't actualized. You have since the "relaunch" several instances of Scott/Logan/Emma just discussing a variety of topics yet Jean has not been given the same care, and I don't think she's going to be. Some think Hickman has a plan for her and she's currently on the back-burner but I don't think that's it I think for his tenure he doesn't have anything for her to do, unfortunately.

Hickman had Jean doing something on Hoxpox, now on dawn of x he has Jean mostly just there for some catty dialog with Emma, to show Scott's family perfect life. The only insight we have is Percy writing Jean on x-force.

yeah I find it hard to believe he has a plan for Jean, but still early to say it

Do you mean that you didn't read Red?!

Eh. It was pretty predictable that nothing good or extremely interesting would happen with Jean once it was obvious they would be doing Jott again.

Anyway, hope you can get back involved soon!

It's really bad that when scott was back i know that Jean would suffer. If only they went for a more co-leader like it was when Emma was dating Scott, but no because of fan favoritism

[Redshipper]

I’m just throwing this out there into the jean thread for no particular reason:

I haven’t kept up with x books since Xmen red. Before that it was XMB, EXM, ANXM (Jeen).

as someone who was reading comics for jean I’m just not that invested anymore once I hear something More interesting happening, I look forward to jumping back in.

I completely feel ya. I also only read issues that have Jean in it. Other times I just read the summary posted and get done with it.

Pretty much what I think, if the kids are alive and close, use it to build relationships with Jean. non brainer
I read a spoiler review for Cable solo and there isn't mention of Jean. But there is Scott giving Cable a hardtime for tresspassing

Yep Scott and Logan taken too much of Jean time for relationships, and the relationships are written to serve the male characters

Even Emma had more of a mentorship with Rachel

I couldn't agree more.

I don't think many on Age of X-men were really well done. It was mostly a filler event to take out Nate grey out of x-men books.
I really agree that Jean and nate could had better writing as son and mother.

kid cable and Scott is again another case of male characters having meaningful relationships.Mostly of writers are male, so fatherhood is the most important thing ever for them.

Motherhood i sthe elephant on the room for male writers




Hickman had Jean doing something on Hoxpox, now on dawn of x he has Jean mostly just there for some catty dialog with Emma, to show Scott's family perfect life. The only insight we have is Percy writing Jean on x-force.

yeah I find it hard to believe he has a plan for Jean, but still early to say it




It's really bad that when scott was back i know that Jean would suffer. If only they went for a more co-leader like it was when Emma was dating Scott, but no because of fan favoritism

[spirit2011]

Phoenix is on today issue of avengers
spoilers
spoilers:

namor under mephisto influence calls Phoenix and she show up

end of spoilers

[starduck]

Phoenix is on today issue of avengers
spoilers
spoilers:

namor under mephisto influence calls Phoenix and she show up

end of spoilers

The Phoenix in Avengers without Jean is still weird

[franckd]

I always think it's sad when people care only about their fav, when X-Men was always about a team.
I'm not judging those fans, but I think they're missing the biggest picture here.

For me, the stories are more important than an character spotlight or panel time. HoX/PoX was amazing, even if Jean was not a big part of it. Like many, many other X characters.

It seems now that many fans want things fast, now, and how they like. It's sad.

[starduck]

I always think it's sad when people care only about their fav, when X-Men was always about a team.
I'm not judging those fans, but I think they're missing the biggest picture here.

For me, the stories are more important than an character spotlight or panel time. HoX/PoX was amazing, even if Jean was not a big part of it. Like many, many other X characters.

It seems now that many fans want things fast, now, and how they like. It's sad.

Sure, but Jean is dead and sidelined so much, it's so tired and I get fans being resentful for it