Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

Sexual preference is not choice.

Fun fact: a friend of mine is a classic marie sue and divorced 2 years ago to be with a friend she felt in love. Well, the man divorced from his wife as well. Shortly after, her boyfriend found himself still involved with his ex wife and the 3 of them are now living together and I have never seen her as happy as she is now, after she came out as polyamorous earlier this year

Sexual orientation is not a choice.

have a mono or poly is a sexual preference

Good for her, but it has nothing to do with the story being told

Can you post some scans of Logan sexual harassing Jean? Based on my understanding there was a mutual attraction (sometimes one-sided), but I’ve never heard it framed as sexual misconduct in the past.

There is alot. Just google it. Even a Logan fan came and confirmed it

She's always been attracted to Logan, what do you mean with sexual preferences. And how do you know that Jean's sexual preferences cannot change.

not always, Jean got over him.

[superjosh]

Everyone keeps going on about polyamory and such, but it doesn't even look like Scott and Jean are in a committed relationship. In my day, this was called everyone single and mingling. And I like it so much better than any Jean/Scott drama from the past 50 years.

[spirit2011]

Everyone keeps going on about polyamory and such, but it doesn't even look like Scott and Jean are in a committed relationship. In my day, this was called everyone single and mingling. And I like it so much better than any Jean/Scott drama from the past 50 years.

Jean is not someone that keep going the single life. but what is characterization these says if i can force a fantasy on the canon

[superjosh]

Jean is not someone that keep going the single life. but what is characterization these says if i can force a fantasy on the canon

You can keep worshiping your boring-ass Jean from the past half-century, but for me she's finally become interesting. She's finally taken control of her own sexual agency and it is about time. Just because it's not something you want her to do doesn't mean it's OOC. And also, people do things OOC all the time... especially when they've been dead for 15 years.

[DragonPiece]

Everyone keeps going on about polyamory and such, but it doesn't even look like Scott and Jean are in a committed relationship. In my day, this was called everyone single and mingling. And I like it so much better than any Jean/Scott drama from the past 50 years.

They make a point to still say Scott and Jean are married though, so it's a open marriage.

[Will Evans]

You can keep worshiping your boring-ass Jean from the past half-century, but for me she's finally become interesting. She's finally taken control of her own sexual agency and it is about time.

Here!!Here!!!!!

I hope Lorna is next!

[taiedy]

You can keep worshiping your boring-ass Jean from the past half-century, but for me she's finally become interesting. She's finally taken control of her own sexual agency and it is about time. Just because it's not something you want her to do doesn't mean it's OOC. And also, people do things OOC all the time... especially when they've been dead for 15 years.

That sounds iffy. Why does Jean having the "sexual agency" to sleep with someone while being in a marriage make her interesting. No bad answer, I'm just curious! Was she boring because she didnt cheat and all the other stuff she did like being a hero in the past half-century was meaningless...?

[v_jeovanne]

You can keep worshiping your boring-ass Jean from the past half-century, but for me she's finally become interesting. She's finally taken control of her own sexual agency and it is about time. Just because it's not something you want her to do doesn't mean it's OOC. And also, people do things OOC all the time... especially when they've been dead for 15 years.

Jean has always been interesting and has always had a choice about her sexuality.

[Jackraow21]

I’m just glad Logan is finally giving her an orgasm. The last time she had one was when she blew up a planet as Dark Phoenix, as per Claremont.

[v_jeovanne]

I’m just glad Logan is finally giving her an orgasm. The last time she had one was when she blew up a planet as Dark Phoenix, as per Claremont.

It is Logan so Jean kissed him and then nothing happened, she is a clone, a dream or worse nobody will know what happened for the next 20 years.

[spirit2011]

You can keep worshiping your boring-ass Jean from the past half-century, but for me she's finally become interesting. She's finally taken control of her own sexual agency and it is about time. Just because it's not something you want her to do doesn't mean it's OOC. And also, people do things OOC all the time... especially when they've been dead for 15 years.

this is freaking offensive

just because she is a on mono doesn't make her boring. But making her date Logan is really boring and offensive, same for Scott

Jean has always been interesting and has always had a choice about her sexuality.

It's funny wha tpeople say to save their disturbing head canon. It's like she never had sexual agency ever LOL
Just make it clear all bad writing and forced things being done on chaarcter more glaring

They make a point to still say Scott and Jean are married though, so it's a open marriage.

they never said it on page

[TheCape]

Can you post some scans of Logan sexual harassing Jean? Based on my understanding there was a mutual attraction (sometimes one-sided), but I’ve never heard it framed as sexual misconduct in the past.

I don't have scans. But i explain as best as i can as a Wolverine fan.

It's complicated but overall Logan was like many male "bad ass" characthers at the time, being agressive and no taking "no" for an answer was his way of flirting, pretty similar to James Bond for example, it was a very romanticed approach back then, it wasn't intended as harrasment, but looking back it certanly looks like that (and you have things like Logan thinking "what the Wolverine wants, the Wolverine gets" around Uncanny X-Men #101) at the beginning it didn't matter much because Jean/Scott was the real deal and Logan wasn't even considered a real option, plus he was clearly more interested in Mariko, a woman that actually returned his affections.

But then Marvel decided to bring the O5 back together, wich means resurrecting Jean, wich means undoing the Maddie/Scott marriage, wich mean a not very happy CC, who bitter about the whole thing retconed that Jean actually was phisically attracted to Logan since meeting him, Logan approach didn't change much thougth, in Classic X-Men #1 is where the retcon start, in that issue Logan flirts with Jean after being recued from Krakoa and is clearly uncomfortable about about his actions, the issue itself retcons also why Jean left the X-Men after the Giant Size issue (because her attraction to Logan was too strong), you have stuff like Inferno when Logan kissed her without her consent (althought it probably had to do with the evil of the place affecting his mind) and she blast him away, there is another Classic X-Men story when they both face some sort of goo monster in the whole issue Logan is making inapopropiate passes at her and ignoring her boundaries with her protesting the whole time (i don't remember the issue thougth), where there is also that X-Tincion Agenda kiss, but that one was written as mutual, so i wouldn't count it. There is probably something else that i'm forgetting. After that last incindent Logan accepted that Jean is not leaving Scott for him and respected their relatioship, even after Scott died he didn't try anything with her and overall had a healthier friendship.

So, to keep all my rambling straigth, what Logan did wasn't intended as abuse or harrasment, but it can be reaad like that pretty easily and is the main reason why me as a Wolverine fan and someone that likes Jean i never shipped that pairing, at least not in the main universe anyway. For me Logan's feelings vacilate between being pathetic or creepy, sometimes both and Jean never has really benefited for her attraction to him.

Well, thats my perspective anyone else can disagreed if they wish too.

[spirit2011]

I don't have scans. But i explain as best as i can as a Wolverine fan.

It's complicated but overall Logan was like many male "bad ass" characthers at the time, being agressive and no taking "no" for an answer was his way of flirting, pretty similar to James Bond for example, it was a very romanticed approach back then, it wasn't intended as harrasment, but looking back it certanly looks like that (and you have things like Logan thinking "what the Wolverine wants, the Wolverine gets" around Uncanny X-Men #101) at the beginning it didn't matter much because Jean/Scott was the real deal and Logan wasn't even considered a real option, plus he was clearly more interested in Mariko, a woman that actually returned his affections.

But then Marvel decided to bring the O5 back together, wich means resurrecting Jean, wich means undoing the Maddie/Scott marriage, wich mean a not very happy CC, who bitter about the whole thing retconed that Jean actually was phisically attracted to Logan since meeting him, Logan approach didn't change much thougth, in Classic X-Men #1 is where the retcon start, in that issue Logan flirts with Jean after being recued from Krakoa and is clearly uncomfortable about about his actions, the issue itself retcons also why Jean left the X-Men after the Giant Size issue (because her attraction to Logan was too strong), you have stuff like Inferno when Logan kissed her without her consent (althought it probably had to do with the evil of the place affecting his mind) and she blast him away, there is another Classic X-Men story when they both face some sort of goo monster in the whole issue Logan is making inapopropiate passes at her and ignoring her boundaries with her protesting the whole time (i don't remember the issue thougth), where there is also that X-Tincion Agenda kiss, but that one was written as mutual, so i wouldn't count it. There is probably something else that i'm forgetting. After that last incindent Logan accepted that Jean is not leaving Scott for him and respected their relatioship, even after Scott died he didn't try anything with her and overall had a healthier friendship.

So, to keep all my rambling straigth, what Logan did wasn't intended as abuse or harrasment, but it can be reaad like that pretty easily and is the main reason why me as a Wolverine fan and someone that likes Jean i never shipped that pairing, at least not in the main universe anyway. For me Logan's feelings vacilate between being pathetic or creepy, sometimes both and Jean never has really benefited for her attraction to him.

Well, thats my perspective anyone else can disagreed if they wish too.

This is pretty much harassment and a-holery from Logan

[Devaishwarya]

If the written intent by the writer at the time wasn't "sexual harassment" then it wasn't "sexual harassment"
Regardless of how you want to "read" it now because society now dictates it to be thus.

And if you are going to cast such aspersions on the story, then be mindful you are casting serious aspersions on the writer for writing highly objectionable material and...going by today's (warped) ideologies and sensibilities, should be "cancelled" forthwith and post haste.

[spirit2011]

If the written intent by the writer at the time wasn't "sexual harassment" then it wasn't "sexual harassment"
Regardless of how you want to "read" it now because society now dictates it to be thus.

And if you are going to cast such aspersions on the story, then be mindful you are casting serious aspersions on the writer for writing highly objectionable material and...going by today's (warped) ideologies and sensibilities, should be "cancelled" forthwith and post haste.

what is wrong is wrong, being it written in 1950 or now. Of course that context is important, that is why some content have a warning before airing like looney tunes and gone with the wind.
1980/1990 is not a long ago