Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

I'm not sure if he has said much about her. He did use White Phoenix (and nightcrawler) in a Wolverine story (this was before Avengers vs X-men) and in the recap of that book it said that the Phoenix was the symbol of Jean Grey. Jean spoke as if she was a ghost like Nightcrawler but Emma said she wasn't and was a figment of Wolverine's memory of Jean or some such thing. She was fiery and helped Wolverine burn away the demons in his mind (or something to that effect). I own the issue - Wolverine #8 (I'm not sure which volume). He handled Jean or whatever version she was really well. He seemed to understand her role as Phoenix (burning away what doesn't work and she was in the White costume garb). It is one of my fav issues.

He definitely likes to use the Phoenix and do all kinds of wild things with it. Those who like it free from Jean should love him. Those of us that like Jean has Phoenix may not enjoy it so much.

Seems very different from Aaron post AvX, where wolverine, thor get to be phoenix and he uses a lot without Jean

In the current Avengers run Jean got two mentions (once by Captain America when talking about needing a telepath and another time a narration box said Jean was hunched over in Atlantis having fiery visions (this was when she would have been in Atlantis during X-men Red). I felt then that Aaron may have had plans for Jean (or it was just misdirection) but plans probably changed.

I was hoping Jean was going to have some sort of connection to cave woman Phoenix (who has red eyes and green hair and telepathy) but that remains to be seen, and may be unlikely though we can always speculate. As much as I personally love Jean as Phoenix, I also love her as just Jean Grey an omega telepath. I wish we could have the best of both worlds like we did in the Morrison run (jean being a grown up omega mutant who sometimes channels the Phoenix). In Here Comes Tomorrow she plugged into the phoenix power through her crown chakra (so we I infer that she plugs into it because of her omega level telepathy).

I think Aaron had some plan for Jean, It's not normal Jean being name dropped on MU without mutants involvement and even before phoenix get involved on the story
But Hickman really made his plans change, as krakoa is position as Mutant supremacy so being on avengers is out of the cards.
Aaron talked that Hickman mutants may clash with marvel universe later, then maybe we will get Jean involvement with avengers and the phoenix

[Harpsikord]

I'm happy there haven't been any secrets or thrown mattresses for a while. Everyone's good.

Question to those who haven't been a fan of Hickman's Jean but felt like she was written better in X-men 8: What changed?

The main thing is that she actually has a defined voice. My big issue with Hickman's Jean up to Giant-Sized and today's issue was the fact that Jean didn't sound like herself under Hickman; she souned like a scared little girl in House of X and a housewife in X-Men #1, and in Giant-Sized the only real line of dialogue that she had was basically ripped from Morrison's script from New X-Men 121. X-Men 8 is the first time that Hickman really writes Jean the way that I expected him to when it was announced that he was taking over the X-Men. Even if she's not heavily part of the action she uses her powers effectively, and she sounds like she's comfortably in charge of a drastic situation. Scott and Illyana were the ones calling the shots, but Jean was the one that worked with Broo and found out the solution.

She's also promised to be a star of the future Shi'Ar arc because she's one of only five X-Men that went into space, the other four being her husband, brother-in-laws, and Broo.

[spirit2011]

Jean having romance isn't a problem. She hasn't had it recently anyhow. It was dead as a doornail for two decades and then "oop Cyclops likes you again so you have to go back with him". Nothing romantic involved. Kinda the opposite of romance, actually.

Dissapointed but not suprised
I knew they would do tha, but at least I thought thy would get some shame how obvious it is

[dashaptm]

yeah, that's pretty obvious))

[dashaptm]

Jean is dating Wolverine guys.

yeah, that's pretty obvious))

[5cents]

The main thing is that she actually has a defined voice.She's also promised to be a star of the future Shi'Ar arc because she's one of only five X-Men that went into space, the other four being her husband, brother-in-laws, and Broo.

I wonder if Hickman will touch on any of the EOG or TOJG drama while Jean is meeting the Shiar again.

I think Hickman might have a few digs/call backs and there will be tension but I think Hickman won’t dwell much into Jean, the Shiar or death of her family.

[Celestialbodies]

I'm not sure if he has said much about her. He did use White Phoenix (and nightcrawler) in a Wolverine story (this was before Avengers vs X-men) and in the recap of that book it said that the Phoenix was the symbol of Jean Grey. Jean spoke as if she was a ghost like Nightcrawler but Emma said she wasn't and was a figment of Wolverine's memory of Jean or some such thing. She was fiery and helped Wolverine burn away the demons in his mind (or something to that effect). I own the issue - Wolverine #8 (I'm not sure which volume). He handled Jean or whatever version she was really well. He seemed to understand her role as Phoenix (burning away what doesn't work and she was in the White costume garb). It is one of my fav issues.

He definitely likes to use the Phoenix and do all kinds of wild things with it. Those who like it free from Jean should love him. Those of us that like Jean has Phoenix may not enjoy it so much.

In the current Avengers run Jean got two mentions (once by Captain America when talking about needing a telepath and another time a narration box said Jean was hunched over in Atlantis having fiery visions (this was when she would have been in Atlantis during X-men Red). I felt then that Aaron may have had plans for Jean (or it was just misdirection) but plans probably changed.

I was hoping Jean was going to have some sort of connection to cave woman Phoenix (who has red eyes and green hair and telepathy) but that remains to be seen, and may be unlikely though we can always speculate. As much as I personally love Jean as Phoenix, I also love her as just Jean Grey an omega telepath. I wish we could have the best of both worlds like we did in the Morrison run (jean being a grown up omega mutant who sometimes channels the Phoenix). In Here Comes Tomorrow she plugged into the phoenix power through her crown chakra (so we I infer that she plugs into it because of her omega level telepathy).

Is the biggest enemy of Jean since death, the sole X-man left and the only one able to challenge Onslaught plans changed from an X-men story to a Marvel story. Seagle wants to reintroduce Jean as Phoenix and increase her power to previous levels plans changed he's off the title and she's removed. Marvel thinks about bringing Jean back through Hope, plans changed Hope has no relation to Jean at all the similarities in appearance and connection to the PF all coincidental, Marvel wants to bring Jean back in a blaze of interstellar glory, plans changed Rosenberg decides instead to write a story about Jean breaking up with the PF. It is really tough being a Jean fan all of her imagery is casually stripped away and attached to others, and very rarely do writers want to engage the character's history or interactions.

The main thing is that she actually has a defined voice. My big issue with Hickman's Jean up to Giant-Sized and today's issue was the fact that Jean didn't sound like herself under Hickman; she souned like a scared little girl in House of X and a housewife in X-Men #1, and in Giant-Sized the only real line of dialogue that she had was basically ripped from Morrison's script from New X-Men 121. X-Men 8 is the first time that Hickman really writes Jean the way that I expected him to when it was announced that he was taking over the X-Men. Even if she's not heavily part of the action she uses her powers effectively, and she sounds like she's comfortably in charge of a drastic situation. Scott and Illyana were the ones calling the shots, but Jean was the one that worked with Broo and found out the solution.

She's also promised to be a star of the future Shi'Ar arc because she's one of only five X-Men that went into space, the other four being her husband, brother-in-laws, and Broo.

Jean was much better in today's issue, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it's also representative of the issue we've been discussing at length in this very thread. No I don't care about the role she played, but it was very similar to how he's been using her as walkie talkie or relay of information to someone else. Hopefully, she has more to do in the coming issues, but it was a small step in the right direction.

[MechaJeanix]

yeah, that's pretty obvious))

I think in this new era Scott, Jean, Emma, and Wolverine are no longer threatened by the other and people are free to be with who they want and to love who they want. Hickman did tease months ago he had something to say about mutant sexuality and this may be it: that mutants are more open and less monogamous. Monogamy while having benefits is still social control, from intro to sociology it is mutual obligation which is a loci of control.

Scott and Jean may no longer restrict the desires of the other which makes room for Emma and Logan. Or this is all one big tease and Scott and Jean are back together but remain friends with exes (Emma) and admirers (Logan).

Or they are all poly and pan and it’s free for all.

[spirit2011]

I think on this new era Scott, Jean, Emma, and Wolverine are no longer threatened by the other and people are free to be with who they want and to love who they want. Hickman did tease months ago he had something to say about mutant sexuality and this may be it: that mutants are more open and less monogamous. Monogamy while having benefits is still social control, from intro to sociology it is mutual obligation which is a loci of control.

Scott and Jean may no longer restrict the desires of the other which makes room for Emma and Logan. Or this is all one big tease and Scott and Jean are back together but remain friends with exes (Emma) and admirers (Logan).

Or they are all poly and pan and it’s free for all.

Mutant sexuality? Hickman thinks he is clever about it but he isn't. They are all humans and raised as humans.

Hickman have to focus more on chaarcters and how they behave, these 4 are all very possessive about who they lose, so this is pure BS

Also perlmuter would never allow this and he is very hands on Marvel comics, that he still give orders since he lost control of Marvel Studios for Feige and Iger.

Monogamy isn't social control, never was. it was just a natural way. it exist before christianity

[MechaJeanix]

Mutant sexuality? Hickman thinks he is clever about it but he isn't. They are all humans and raised as humans.

Hickman have to focus more on chaarcters and how they behave, these 4 are all very possessive about who they lose, so this is pure BS

Also perlmuter would never allow this and he is very hands on Marvel comics, that he still give orders since he lost control of Marvel Studios for Feige and Iger.

Monogamy isn't social control, never was. it was just a natural way. it exist before christianity

It is still social and it is still social control , as I said it is the concept of mutual obligation. If I agree to be monogamous with someone and they agree to those terms and are also monogamous then we have something akin to a social contract. Again it’s called mutual obligation . That doesn’t mean it is right or wrong but it is certainly social rather than ‘natural’.

There are social and cultural norms that impact human sexuality (behaviors, how we express, etc). And these norms, customs, values, and beliefs change over time.

Jean is a telepath so she of all people should see through and beyond human social constructs.

[Diamond Claws]

Only friendship? Writers doesn't want to tie him in, while they can having him have a new girl every new arc...

marvel did a couples status article andthey said Jean and Scott are married. I have no reason to not believe in them.

Sure, thi si sone of hang ups I have with Hickman. I like to read romances and he kept doing nothing.

Jordan D. White, the current editor of the X-Men, said in an interview to the aipt that Scott and Jean are not married since they died and after the death the marriage is annulled, moreover nobody calls Jean "Grey-Summers" in the comics and although they are living together, Jean sleeps in a different room than Scott, no married couple sleep in different rooms

[phoenixzero23]

Okay, there is a love rectangle thread for all the shipping nonsense, in fact there is one for appreciation and other for simple discussion, there are also threads for scemma, jott and jogan. If you like/hate anything about the topic, it will be better to go there.
Leave this one for Jean

[Diamond Claws]

I stand by what I stated. It is a fact. X-Comics does revolve around Scott as have the women in his life. Probably the first time in a while they are no longer in his shadows and are doing there own thing. It is time for other characters to shine and I am happy Illyana got that chance however small it was.

since when do X-Comics revolve around the Cyclops? Cyclops has always been only the leader of the team and that’s all, the X-Books revolve around the mutant race, and if exist been a prominent mutant it’s Wolverine, in addition to being the only one with a solo book, he always appears in every books and has been involved in all the mutant stories since he was created, Scott was removed from the team in the 1980s and was left out for years ...

not to mention that Wolverine is also the focus on cartoons and films

[Celestialbodies]

since when do X-Comics revolve around the Cyclops? Cyclops has always been only the leader of the team and that’s all, the X-Books revolve around the mutant race, and if exist been a prominent mutant it’s Wolverine, in addition to being the only one with a solo book, he always appears in every books and has been involved in all the mutant stories since he was created, Scott was removed from the team in the 1980s and was left out for years ...

not to mention that Wolverine is also the focus on cartoons and films

...did you miss 2004-2012? Even afterwards he was the star of the Bendis headed UXM from 2013-2015 and again from 2018-2019, moreover since at least the 80's Cyke has consistently had a large portion of the X-men's narrative.

[Havok83]

...did you miss 2004-2012? Even afterwards he was the star of the Bendis headed UXM from 2013-2015 and again from 2018-2019, moreover since at least the 80's Cyke has consistently had a large portion of the X-men's narrative.

Id shorten that to 2008. The X-books did not revolve around him when Whedon was writing. AXM may have been the flagship but it was notoriously late and it was the only place that Scott appeared on a regular basis. He may have made appearances in the X-books but purely as a cameo or supporting. Like Claremont's Uncanny, New X-men and Austen's X-men for example during that same era did not feature him in any meaningful capacity and Scott was not driving the line. The focus shifted to him in the San Francisco era and that lasted through AvX