Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

It's not for them to decide who is better for her or even chose for her. She is her own woman making her own choices. As is her right, whether they disagree with her or not.
The fact that some do vociferously disagree speaks to a level of personal entitlement as if the writer and the characters are there solely to cater to them and them alone.
Tenuous sanity, indeed.

jean is acharacter being written by men. Drop this sexual agency and that she is choosing.

percy and Hickman, two white men choose it for her

[BESTXMAN]

I figure Jean is a telepath and Scott's mind is completely open to her. She knows he loves her more than anything but he also loves Emma. And they probably worked something out. He also knows that Wolverine loves her and I guess they are all cool. Although I suspect Cyclops is nailing Lorna Dane based on X-Men number 1 but I'm like the only person who saw it.

[superjosh]

that i snever what I said. This way is impossible to have a serious discussion

I'm just trying to match your level of exaggeration. If you want to have a serious discussion, you have to be honest with the fact that your opinions are very, very biased towards how you want Jean portrayed. You're acting like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to her character, so that's why I've pointed out that writers have been abusing her for decades.

What's so out of character with being in an open relationship? Because Jean was always a saint? I've never been in an open relationship, but if I suddenly came back from the dead (!!!) and then my husband (who was with another woman right after I died) came back from the dead and then we were in this iffy zone of "are we or aren't we" I would definitely not want to commit again. You want Jean to be single right? Do you know what single people in their 30s do? They have sex. Some have a lot! And sex with the f--kboy that's been eying you for years is the easiest place to turn.

[MechaJeanix]

I hope Jean doesn't leave xforce, its the only book i buy, cos she is in it (i do get xmen most of the time too) but i like how Percy handles her / gets her voice. I don't see any other current writer managing her in the same way, or developing her enough. But if she were to go to another book regularly which one would you want her in and why?

I think she will remain in X-force, but if that is not the case then I could see her appearing more in Hickman's book and/or in Wolverine. If she is a regular in Wolverine that is a win since Percy writers her so well.

Sometimes I think Jean should be in a more heroic and inspirational book, but we already had that in X-men Red. I like that Jean is in a book where the character is conflicted and has to make tough choices. I like it when Jean has an edge to her. I think Jean will have a change of heart and rejoin X-force but if she has left for good then she's going to another book. I don't see her fitting in with Marauders, Hellions, or Excalibur.

[Will Evans]

I figure Jean is a telepath and Scott's mind is completely open to her. She knows he loves her more than anything but he also loves Emma. And they probably worked something out. He also knows that Wolverine loves her and I guess they are all cool. Although I suspect Cyclops is nailing Lorna Dane based on X-Men number 1 but I'm like the only person who saw it.

Scott and Lorna? Huh?

Explain?

[spirit2011]

I'm just trying to match your level of exaggeration. If you want to have a serious discussion, you have to be honest with the fact that your opinions are very, very biased towards how you want Jean portrayed. You're acting like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to her character, so that's why I've pointed out that writers have been abusing her for decades.

What's so out of character with being in an open relationship? Because Jean was always a saint? I've never been in an open relationship, but if I suddenly came back from the dead (!!!) and then my husband (who was with another woman right after I died) came back from the dead and then we were in this iffy zone of "are we or aren't we" I would definitely not want to commit again. You want Jean to be single right? Do you know what single people in their 30s do? They have sex. Some have a lot!

i'm not exagerating, i'm telling the truth. if you can't hear the truth, it will be hard have a discussion.

whole jean story is being in a mono stable relationship, I see no reason for Jean stay with Scott.

Writers are first forced jean back with Cyclops without any build up, now she is having sex with Logan that she was over him decades ago.
There isn't character development. It's a sexual fantasy being written

man why you are talking to me as I don't know people have sex, this is patronizing a woman

I figure Jean is a telepath and Scott's mind is completely open to her. She knows he loves her more than anything but he also loves Emma. And they probably worked something out. He also knows that Wolverine loves her and I guess they are all cool. Although I suspect Cyclops is nailing Lorna Dane based on X-Men number 1 but I'm like the only person who saw it.

He doesn't love Emma, they broke years ago and he haven't demostrating any love to her.

Jean would just leave him and search for someone that REALLY loves her, without cheating.
the excuses people do for crappy writing

[Soulsword323]

Regardless if you like Wolverine or not, and whether you support their relationship, Jean was the one who sought Logan out. Jean's the one who removed her clothing to enter the bath, she's the one who leaned on him, and the one who decided to sit on his lap. None of that was initiated by Wolverine. Everything she did was deliberate on her part, hence why she had agency.

Jean Grey is really coming out on top in this era, and I'm here for it.

[Jackraow21]

I don't have a problem with jean having sexual agency, but it is out of character. She needs to date nd have a serious relationship

Got it. So casual sex is frowned upon. Clear. That explains a lot.

[spirit2011]

Got it. So casual sex is frowned upon. Clear. That explains a lot.

some people don't have casual sex. why it is so hard to accept that not everyone gonna sleep with everything that moves?

Regardless if you like Wolverine or not, and whether you support their relationship, Jean was the one who sought Logan out. Jean's the one who removed her clothing to enter the bath, she's the one who leaned on him, and the one who decided to sit on his lap. None of that was initiated by Wolverine. Everything she did was deliberate on her part, hence why she had agency.

Jean Grey is really coming out on top in this era, and I'm here for it.

I don't think dating wolverine is coming out on top, dude slept with half of marvel universe.

and she was written like men wanted her to be written, I don't see agency is limited

[superjosh]

i'm not exagerating, i'm telling the truth. if you can't hear the truth, it will be hard have a discussion.

whole jean story is being in a mono stable relationship, I see no reason for Jean stay with Scott.

Writers are first forced jean back with Cyclops without any build up, now she is having sex with Logan that she was over him decades ago.
There isn't character development. It's a sexual fantasy being written

man why you are talking to me as I don't know people have sex, this is patronizing a woman

What truth are you telling? Your truth is most definitely not Jean's truth. Also, she's fictional.

I don't have a problem with jean having sexual agency, but it is out of character. She needs to date nd have a serious relationship

So character development only qualifies if she's in a serious relationship?

I'm not trying to be patronizing, so I'm sorry if it feels like an attack. I'm trying to advocate sex positive thinking towards women. You've been basically implying (without outright saying it) that you think Jean is being portrayed as a slut. And I don't think that's the case at all and that's what I'm trying to get you to see.

[Jackraow21]

some people don't have casual sex. why it is so hard to accept that not everyone gonna sleep with everything that moves?

You don’t like empowered female characters. You want her to be chaste and wholesome. And you’re a man. It’s really kind of sad. But I’ll leave you alone with that. Seems like you’ve got some stuff to sort out. And yet you call everyone else offensive... sheesh. Maybe look inward first. Especially before calling for people to be fired over comments your patriarchal ass deems to be offensive on Twitter on behalf of women. Who are you to speak for anyone?

[TheCape]

some people don't have casual sex. why it is so hard to accept that not everyone gonna sleep with everything that moves?



I don't think dating wolverine is coming out on top, dude slept with half of marvel universe.

and she was written like men wanted her to be written, I don't see agency is limited

She still has more going on that her relationship with Logan thougth, even if you dislike that, Percy has done a good job overall, is not like all writers 100% right or how we would like it, there are authors that i enjoy, but i still don't agreed with every decision that they took.

[taiedy]

Man some of the things I have read are too funny. But that's the fun of fiction. I do appreciate the discussion with you guys young and old timers both. Peace!

[MechaJeanix]

Can we move on from Logan for a little bit and talk about this amazing feat when Jean combined their powers



This is something Hope can do and it was cool seeing Jean use her own powers in a creative way to achieve a similar effect

Yeah, I loved this! I like it when writers come up with creative uses of powers. I also like it when mutants work together and combine their abilities to do big things (something we see a lot of in the Hickman era though it is not something new).

I wanted Jean and Trinary to do something like this in X-men Red. I think it would have been cool if Jean and Trinary combined minds/powers to take down the sentinites (Jean attacking the mind while Trinary targeted the machine) but alas it did not happen in that way.

Like someone else said, tp/tk can become boring if it is just bland energy blasts. Tp/Tk can be one of the more interesting power sets when used creatively.

edit: Jean and Trinary did work together when Trinary deactivated the sentinites along with the rest of the team.

[TheCape]

You don’t like empowered female characters. You want her to be chaste and wholesome. And you’re a man. It’s really kind of sad. But I’ll leave you alone with that. Seems like you’ve got some stuff to sort out. And yet you call everyone else offensive... sheesh. Maybe look inward first. Especially before calling for people to be fired over comments your patriarchal ass deems to be offensive on Twitter on behalf of women. Who are you to speak for anyone?

Everyone has their ideal version of their characther, i can respect that to an extent. I love Wolverine, but i don't agreed with every direction that they took with him , same with Spider-Man, hell same with MJ and some others. I think that he/she is exaggerating thought, this is not that bad because Percy has written Jean as someone that had something going on outside of her relationship with Logan, hell she is more important in this book than him in my opinion.