Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Phoenixx9]

I remember there was mention of another series coming out after End Song that would have continued this saga onward, cleaned things up and returned Jean to life called "BirthSong" but it just turned out to be an April Fool's Joke.

[andreikes]

I love this dialogue

[franckd]

Phoenix Endsong is canon. If not, Warsong is not canon. If not, the Cuckoos are not Emma's girls (meaning from her eggs). Yet, they acknowledge the Cuckoos are. So it's all canon imo.

[Celestialbodies]

....unpopular opinion but hypothetically speaking if Phoenix is unavailable and if Jean is forced to have a codename, Marvel Woman is superior to Marvel Girl. And with that I'm out!

[MechaJeanix]

I love this dialogue

I can't tell you how much I loved New X-men 154 when it came out. It brought all the feels. I loved everything about it. It stands out as one of my favorite Jean Grey issues. I loved the Quire cameo. Last we saw him in the books he had experienced a secondary mutation and had transcended or something but the X-men kind of talked about him as if he had died. Of course he shows up later in Phoenix Endsong where he is briefly revived but returns to the state he was in when the book first started.

The scenes where Jean is floating upside down in the White Hot Room gave me chills when I first read it. I just felt for her... waking up so far in the future, almost everyone she knows is dead and then she has to amputate the future and ultimately push Cyclops to change his mind about abandoning the school.

[Havok83]

[johnnysv75]

The two big things that should have remained from Teen Jean: Jean as a field leader and Jean with what we call the "pink form". We had Jean as a leader in X-men Red and it was great for those of us who enjoyed the book. I guess you can make an argument that Jean is still a leader as she's on the QC but it is not the same as being a field leader.

The pink form should have remained since it was a new aspect of her powers and could be used to make Jean stand out from the rest of the tp/tk characters.

Teen Scott was used to show Adult Cyclops that he was wrong and no longer the Rightclops version, but other than that the teen's memories didn't seem to effect the others in a similar way. Which is sad because of all the teen characters the one that got the most focus and significance was Teen Jean. She should have had a big effect on Adult Jean.

I loved the pink form. Would have loved it if they kept it. And if the comics acknowledge what happens in earlier stories, it makes us feel that we truly take part of a huge wonderful story where the characters learn and evolve. That is what I loved about Claremont’s run. We had progress and we got to follow characters we knew and loved and take part of their journey. We don’t have that today.

Would love to see Jean grow and evolve. But in the late 90s she started wearing the Phoenix costume in order to empower herself. That didn’t go anywhere. Then in 2018 she said that now she would find out how powerful she was, now that she didn’t have to fear turning into Dark Phoenix. That didn’t go anywhere either.
At least twice in the last 20 years, Jean has tried to empower herself and then that has been pulled away from her. She isn't really going anywhere, there is no true evolution. And that makes me so sad.

[Omega_DCD]

I loved the pink form because beyond the feat itself, it actually acknowledges the disrupted path Jean's power development took, and what could happen if her telepathy and telekinesis developed in tandem as they would have naturally otherwise. As Oracle said, "she already has a different relationship with her mind, her powers". Showing that a dual psi can be more than just 2 independent powers, but a unified whole. In time, Jean could go on to master other "unity" feats.

Nate Grey showed a powerful example of this early on, by forcing Xavier's Astral form into the physical plane...which was what actually allowed Onslaught to be able to make his psychic armor physical.

[Havok83]

I loved the pink form because beyond the feat itself, it actually acknowledges the disrupted path Jean's power development took, and what could happen if her telepathy and telekinesis developed in tandem as they would have naturally otherwise. As Oracle said, "she already has a different relationship with her mind, her powers". Showing that a dual psi can be more than just 2 independent powers, but a unified whole. In time, Jean could go on to master other "unity" feats.
.

Wow thats an interesting take on it that I had not considered

[Phoenixx9]

I loved the pink form because beyond the feat itself, it actually acknowledges the disrupted path Jean's power development took, and what could happen if her telepathy and telekinesis developed in tandem as they would have naturally otherwise. As Oracle said, "she already has a different relationship with her mind, her powers". Showing that a dual psi can be more than just 2 independent powers, but a unified whole. In time, Jean could go on to master other "unity" feats.

Nate Grey showed a powerful example of this early on, by forcing Xavier's Astral form into the physical plane...which was what actually allowed Onslaught to be able to make his psychic armor physical.

Wait...that was Nate's combined TP/TK? I never knew he could combine his TP/TK. I thought it was the sheer strength of one or the other that did it.?

[Omega_DCD]

Wow thats an interesting take on it that I had not considered

Yep...I wish these seeds that are constantly planted by writers would actually bear fruit with other writers down the line

[Omega_DCD]

Wait...that was Nate's combined TP/TK? I never knew he could combine his TP/TK. I thought it was the sheer strength of one or the other that did it.?

To me that is what he did...we know solid TK constructs can be created. Nate essentially converted Xavier's Astral form into physical one(isn't this what he did with Madelyne's lingering Astral form as well?)

Onslaught was still brewing and hidden in the Astral Plane...but this contact made by Nate now gave him a physical form

[johnnysv75]

Yep...I wish these seeds that are constantly planted by writers would actually bear fruit with other writers down the line

TV shows have showrunners that are responsible among other things for the greater character arcs, so that continuity and character development is still there now matter how many new writers they have. And they have ”bibles” with important info about the story and the characters. I wish they had something like that in the X-offices so that there isn’t a new beginning for the character every time there is a new writer. I want to feel that I take part of this huge story. And not several new events every year.

[Havok83]

Yep...I wish these seeds that are constantly planted by writers would actually bear fruit with other writers down the line

That art is so beautiful. ANX truly was blessed with great artists even when they crossed over into other books

[Omega_DCD]

TV shows have showrunners that are responsible among other things for the greater character arcs, so that continuity and character development is still there now matter how many new writers they have. And they have ”bibles” with important info about the story and the characters. I wish they had something like that in the X-offices so that there isn’t a new beginning for the character every time there is a new writer. I want to feel that I take part of this huge story. And not several new events every year.

Very much agreed