Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

If Jean Grey has to be in an updated ‘Marvel Girl‘ costume then it should be the Alex Ross design.

this is a great look, but the footwear needs to change

[Strong Girl Daken]

Jean's sledgehammer takedown of Sabretooth compared to Emma's weaker attempt proves to me that Hickman has a good handle on Jean, at least in relation to Emma. Jean has been less of a saint in DoX in general which is good to see. Jean has never been a saint (except for maybe the 90s when she was "the mom").

[whitecrown]

Rachel, Cable, and X-man were left out of the Omega category which does annoy some fans. Maybe they chose not to count alternate reality characters or perhaps Cable wasn't counted because he has the TO virus that limits his telekinetics (or Exodus may outclass Cable even without the TO virus).

Rachel was the first example of the omega distinction but if I recall correctly it wasn't made by Xavier. It was likely defined/measured by some other metric not comparable to how Xavier is using/ defining the term (was it by Nimrod.. I know it was in the story with him).

I love Jean as a telekinetic and I find tk more interesting than tp, but I don't really think it matters which power is the omega one. As long as Jean is strong in each power then I'm fine with the telepathy being her dominant/off the charts power. Looking back at the 90's it does seem that her telepathy was at times emphasized more than her tk and I can see the argument being made that it was her strongest power.

In Morrison's run you can infer that her omega potential was tied to her telekinetic sensitivity which also went hand in hand with the phoenix manifestation (though again in his last arc it was shown that Jean's mind is what plugged her into the phoenix consciousness).

Yeah it pisses me off that Rachel is no longer omega. She's Jean's daughter and the only other true Phoenix there is so of course she'd be omega besides the fact that in canon, she's the first ever confirmed omega-level mutant. And Claremont established that all of Jean's children would inherit her powers and her connection to the Phoenix in Classic X-Men 43. I hope after Hickman's abysmal run is over, everything he's established will be quickly retconned particularly this omega-level classification. I'm sure whatever the MCU establishes will quickly become the new norm in the 616 universe as well.

Even 90's Jean had more of a focus in regards to her motivations, these days I couldn't tell you what Jean wants. I just hope these upcoming X-force issues have her doing something of note.

Exactly, 90s Jean from the comics wouldn't be an insult at all but we're left with the version from TAS who sticks to the sidelines.

[whitecrown]

Jean's sledgehammer takedown of Sabretooth compared to Emma's weaker attempt proves to me that Hickman has a good handle on Jean, at least in relation to Emma. Jean has been less of a saint in DoX in general which is good to see. Jean has never been a saint (except for maybe the 90s when she was "the mom").

Even in the 90s, she would occasionally acknowledge her darkness.

[Strong Girl Daken]

"In my worst nightmare -- I'm just myself. Not the Phoenix. Not Madelyne Pryor. I'm just Jean Grey -- One of the most powerful psi's on the planet!"

As someone with the memories of the Phoenix Force, her clone, and her time-displaced teen version... her worst nightmare is just being herself. That's badass and way more interesting than saint Jean.

[whitecrown]

"In my worst nightmare -- I'm just myself. Not the Phoenix. Not Madelyne Pryor. I'm just Jean Grey -- One of the most powerful psi's on the planet!"

As someone with the memories of the Phoenix Force, her clone, and her time-displaced teen version... her worst nightmare is just being herself. That's badass and way more interesting than saint Jean.

Agreed. I'm not sure why 90s Jean has that reputation anyway. Maybe because Scott was the boy scout so she's automatically conflated as a paragon of virtue as well. Also her taking on the motherly role of comforting Jubilee over Illyana's death in UXM 303.

[Wiccan]

Look, I can agree that Tom went a bit too far on the "saint Jean" characterization. But I think it was really because at the end of the day Red was a plot-driven book. It might not seem like that because Jean gets so much paneltime but it's true. And the theme was mainly using love and positivity as a weapon. On the Annual, in which things focused more on Jean as a character, I thought his characterization of her was flawless.

[Strong Girl Daken]

Look, I can agree that Tom went a bit too far on the "saint Jean" characterization. But I think it was really because at the end of the day Red was a plot-driven book. It might not seem like that because Jean gets so much paneltime but it's true. And the theme was mainly using love and positivity as a weapon. On the Annual, in which things focused more on Jean as a character, I thought his characterization of her was flawless.

The annual was much better especially when she snapped at bigots (shut up Nightcrawler/Tom Taylor's authorial voice lol). I didn't like it when Jean "both sides" the issues circulating in that comic though.

[Wiccan]

The annual was much better especially when she snapped at bigots (shut up Nightcrawler/Tom Taylor's authorial voice lol). I didn't like it when Jean "both sides" the issues circulating in that comic though.

I think that's where the whole "it was the nanosentinels manipulating people" thing has it's pros and cons.

I didn't like it at the time because the idea that people need to be manipulated by bots to be hateful was... Not realistic. But at the same time it makes it so Jean has more of a point when she says that most of those people weren't truly hateful and need help to be better.

[Strong Girl Daken]

I think that's where the whole "it was the nanosentinels manipulating people" thing has it's pros and cons.

I didn't like it at the time because the idea that people need to be manipulated by bots to be hateful was... Not realistic. But at the same time it makes it so Jean has more of a point when she says that most of those people weren't truly hateful and need help to be better.

It's better when you completely disconnect it from the real world but Tom Taylor intentionally made that impossible to do, so the comic is stuck fighting with itself forever.

[MechaJeanix]

I think that's where the whole "it was the nanosentinels manipulating people" thing has it's pros and cons.

I didn't like it at the time because the idea that people need to be manipulated by bots to be hateful was... Not realistic. But at the same time it makes it so Jean has more of a point when she says that most of those people weren't truly hateful and need help to be better.

The way I read the book wasn't that the sentinites were creating prejudice in people but making it worse and for some people more extreme. For example the mother that tries to kill her daughter for being a mutant.

I forget which issue it was, but there is an issue where Trinary broadcasts Jean's message to people saying if their anti-mutant feelings are getting worse then they ought to consider that they might be manipulated. I never thought the message in the book was saying Cassandra was behind all prejudice but that she was exploiting it. Which is a timely message when you see right wing people constantly using fear tactics to exploit the fear of the "other'. Those of us that lived through the 90's remember all the extreme anti-lgbt messaging, and hearing our preachers, family members and friends parroting things they were hearing or reading from right wing sources. It is a similar concept.
There are always those who want to exploit fear and rage and direct it toward the most vulnerable.

[whitecrown]

More of Jean in her Marvel Girl costume in Adam Kubert's new Wolverine cover.

[Havok83]

Her hair has volume

[whitecrown]

I prefer her hair like that when she's Marvel Girl. I'm not a fan of when she's depicted with hair shoulder-length or even shorter. Such as below.

[whitecrown]

I wish we could have something like X-Men: The Hidden Years again with more stories from this era. Particularly involving Jean and Lorna. It's too bad the First Class stories never touched upon this era.