Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[whitecrown]

“The Marvels” by Luciano Vecchio circa 2018

This is the artist who won me over to Jean's X-Men Red look. I'd love to see her and Carol interact and on the same team. Captain Marvel and Marvel Woman or whatever name we all agreed upon for her.

[Celestialbodies]

I don't think we can expect for her to not be a support character if that's all a writer has for her, but it's fair to ask that she not just suck when she appears lol.

I will give him props for not clowning her in the Giant-Size issue because I was so sure that's how things were gonna go down.

The irony being she had no dialogue, and the issue follow the exact same formula of NXM #121, beautiful issue none the less.

Damn, why can't we have her wear something like this in X-Force?! Why is she wearing her teenage dress for black-ops missions/intelligence meetings? Honestly Sage and Domino must get together to laugh at her choice of clothing. I know I would ( Tho Sage could do with losing her yellow jacket as well, kinda tacky) .

RE: Hickman's X-men, he wrote some AMAZING scenes for Destiny , Mystique and Emma, and he also elevated Moira from basically a nobody to the mastermind of the franchise. So I think he knows how to write female characters rather well, although it is true that he shines while writing men in high positions of power, making morally grey decisions ( i.e the Xavier, Apocalypse and Magneto meeting on Davos . IMO, the best issue of his run so far).

I said it before, but he probably has no plans for her in his storyline. Though he has acknowledged her power levels and status on the franchise: he gave her a QC seat( cue it's what she deserves.gif) , made her an omega( she already was but he could have ignored it ) , gave her the edge in the Giant Size Issue( where I expected her to fail miserably) and he gave her the cute little feat where she was collaborating with, I think 50 telepaths on the island? ( the Brood issue) That was nice. I think this is what we can expect from him: an acknowledgment of Jean as a character, but no real interest in developing her further ( she was already capable of doing everything I mentioned above before he came along).



This is the mini series where she mind controls Frenzy, right? That was a dick move by Jean. I get she was desperate, but she went too far here, and IIRC, never got called out for it.

Looking back at this scene, I appreciate the character flaws Bendis gave her. He made her the nosy, perhaps overconfident psychic, but aside from that scene where she mind controls Angel ( and gets called out for it), she never sank so low as to do what she did to Frenzy.

Same, I think Hickman has already chosen his big players and I do not think Jean is one of them, she'll be support which is unfortunate. I had such hopes that Hickman joining the X-men could be great for a character like Jean especially with how much he loves cosmic stories. That does not seem to be the case however which is a shame as I think there are a great deal of X-men who could benefit if that side of their development was explored, too bad!



Also I love what Carey did with Frenzy and it would have been nice if it had stuck lord knows we need more representation especially for black women among the X-men. That said I was okay with the mind control given the dire circumstances, that and Sharon Friedlander never got her justice so, forcing Frenzy onto the side of angels was a small token of that.

[Grey]

Marvel Woman is no more clunky than Invisible Woman...and the entire MU is okies with Susan Storm's code name.

Gonna have to disagree here. Intended or not the code name
“Marvel” seems so weird and 4th wall breaking to me. Like, invisible woman can turn invisible. But marvel girl? Marvel woman? Captain marvel? All make me cringe, personally.

Edit: I guess I’m not really disagreeing with you. More that I’m saying I think invisible woman feels way more natural than marvel anything

[Celestialbodies]

Side-note love seeing Jean in leadership roles, the time spent is usually inconsistent or short-term so gotta take what I can get:

[MechaJeanix]

This is the artist who won me over to Jean's X-Men Red look. I'd love to see her and Carol interact and on the same team. Captain Marvel and Marvel Woman or whatever name we all agreed upon for her.

I love this fan art too. I want Jean to be an important X-men character but I also want her to have significance in the broader Marvel Universe. I recall when adult Jean came back the editor at the time Mark P. said that Jean returning would be important to the X-men but also the Marvel Universe but of course he was shuffled off the books after the first few issues of X-Men Red. He may have just meant plans in X-men Red to have Jean team up with the Avengers, which was nice!

[Portsian]

Just re read issue 9 of X force and Domino after being resurrected says “we are supposed to choose our best selves” to come back as. I cant believe that Jean would choose to come back as Marvel Girl, if she wanted a non Phoenix time to come back as, she could have chosen her 90# version when she was powerful yet just Jean as in UXM 300., poeerful independent woman. Coming back as MG just makes no sense, esp as she was never strongbenough as MG to be an Omega level mutant.

[Havok83]

Just re read issue 9 of X force and Domino after being resurrected says “we are supposed to choose our best selves” to come back as. I cant believe that Jean would choose to come back as Marvel Girl, if she wanted a non Phoenix time to come back as, she could have chosen her 90# version when she was powerful yet just Jean as in UXM 300., poeerful independent woman. Coming back as MG just makes no sense, esp as she was never strongbenough as MG to be an Omega level mutant.

Jean Grey is the same Jean that was here prior to HoX. She didnt come back plucked out of the 60s

[Fall-From-Grace]

Just re read issue 9 of X force and Domino after being resurrected says “we are supposed to choose our best selves” to come back as. I cant believe that Jean would choose to come back as Marvel Girl, if she wanted a non Phoenix time to come back as, she could have chosen her 90# version when she was powerful yet just Jean as in UXM 300., poeerful independent woman. Coming back as MG just makes no sense, esp as she was never strongbenough as MG to be an Omega level mutant.

Hmm...that is interesting. Maybe in her own mind, she thinks that this outfit represents her best version? ( her fans and the phoenix force itself disagree with her, lol)
She did go back to the MG outfit right before she died on the moon. And she also chose to stay in that costume after being ressurected recently( X-Men Red Annual). Hmm... It would be nice if we could have her say something to explain her decision . Just a panel, really, to give us a glimpse into her mind . I really want her to get a redesign( especially for X-Force) , but I would accept her going around as Marvel Girl a lot more if there was a reason for it .

[franckd]

Jean Grey is the same Jean that was here prior to HoX. She didnt come back plucked out of the 60s

Please, let Jonathan Hickman know. Merci !

Hmm...that is interesting. Maybe in her own mind, she thinks that this outfit represents her best version? ( her fans and the phoenix force itself disagree with her, lol)
She did go back to the MG outfit right before she died on the moon. And she also chose to stay in that costume after being ressurected recently( X-Men Red Annual). Hmm... It would be nice if we could have her say something to explain her decision . Just a panel, really, to give us a glimpse into her mind . I really want her to get a redesign( especially for X-Force) , but I would accept her going around as Marvel Girl a lot more if there was a reason for it .

Actually, it's maybe just a poor taste choice of clothing from Jean. If, and only if, she thinks it's the best version of her, well, that would be absurd writing.
It was nie that Russel Dauterman could draw her with her Red-recolored suit. I don't like this suit, but at least it doesn't feel like a regression.

[MechaJeanix]

Side-note love seeing Jean in leadership roles, the time spent is usually inconsistent or short-term so gotta take what I can get:

I've bee re-reading 90's Uncanny X-men for fun recently and I have a renewed love for the Gold Team. We know over in the Blue Team that Beast ends up in command when Cyclops is away (also when Wolverine is no longer on the team). We don't really know who was second in command of the Gold Team but I can make an argument for Jean.

Jean was ordering Bishop and Colossus around during the Morlock story when Storm was unavailable. Jean was also ordering around Bishop and Iceman during the fight with Legion when Storm was again temporarily unavailable (The Gold team minus Archangel and insert Psylocke fought Legion during Legion's Quest). The scan you posted shows Jean acting in a leadership role while both Scott and Storm were off campus.

Also in X-men 28 the X-men leaders appear to be Scott, Beast, Storm, and Jean (going by those Jean reached out to when she was worried about Xavier taking in Sabretooth).

Though no second in command of the Gold team was ever mentioned (to my knowledge), Bishop was too new to the X-men to take on the role, Archangel had too many issues, Iceman just wasn't serious enough, Colossus could theoretically be a contender, and Forge possibly could have filled the role if he spent more time with the team (he seemed more like an assistant to Xavier).

In any event Jean was a senior member and while she didn't get a lot of screen time during Gold Team issues/missions she was still an asset to Storm's team. Though not the cool team of the era I just love Storm, Jean, Iceman, Angel, Colossus, and Bishop together. I know what some will say about nostalgia but let me have my moment :lol

Also like I said earlier there were times in X-factor where Jean felt like a leader (again look at issues where Scott was away or unavailable). I think becoming a leader was a natural evolution for Jean even without Teen Jean.

[darewithpeace]

im discovering adventures of x men, i dont know if it has good writing or art, but i love the focus on jean sometimes

[darewithpeace]

loved this part from the issue u where discusing before

[whitecrown]

I love this fan art too. I want Jean to be an important X-men character but I also want her to have significance in the broader Marvel Universe. I recall when adult Jean came back the editor at the time Mark P. said that Jean returning would be important to the X-men but also the Marvel Universe but of course he was shuffled off the books after the first few issues of X-Men Red. He may have just meant plans in X-men Red to have Jean team up with the Avengers, which was nice!

Agreed. One thing that helped Wolverine was his connections to the larger Marvel Universe with Captain America, Carol Danvers, and Nick Fury. Wolverine, Storm, Beast, Iceman, Angel, and now Rogue have all had lives outside of the X-Men and now it should be Jean's turn. She has a very rich history with other MU characters already. Her friendships with other Silver Age heroines like Sue and Wanda from the First Class comics, going to Metro College alongside Johnny Storm, being praised for her spirit and heroism by Captain America, Reed Richards, and Hercules upon her "resurrection," saving Jessica Jones from the Purple Man, working alongside Namor in X-Men Red and having to fend off against the advances of his archenemy Attuma twice, and all the similarities she has with Carol Danvers in general. I remember that Bendis wanted Jean to join the New Avengers way back alongside Wolverine but he wasn't allowed to bring her back. A real shame.

[whitecrown]

I've bee re-reading 90's Uncanny X-men for fun recently and I have a renewed love for the Gold Team. We know over in the Blue Team that Beast ends up in command when Cyclops is away (also when Wolverine is no longer on the team). We don't really know who was second in command of the Gold Team but I can make an argument for Jean.

Jean was ordering Bishop and Colossus around during the Morlock story when Storm was unavailable. Jean was also ordering around Bishop and Iceman during the fight with Legion when Storm was again temporarily unavailable (The Gold team minus Archangel and insert Psylocke fought Legion during Legion's Quest). The scan you posted shows Jean acting in a leadership role while both Scott and Storm were off campus.

Also in X-men 28 the X-men leaders appear to be Scott, Beast, Storm, and Jean (going by those Jean reached out to when she was worried about Xavier taking in Sabretooth).

Though no second in command of the Gold team was ever mentioned (to my knowledge), Bishop was too new to the X-men to take on the role, Archangel had too many issues, Iceman just wasn't serious enough, Colossus could theoretically be a contender, and Forge possibly could have filled the role if he spent more time with the team (he seemed more like an assistant to Xavier).

In any event Jean was a senior member and while she didn't get a lot of screen time during Gold Team issues/missions she was still an asset to Storm's team. Though not the cool team of the era I just love Storm, Jean, Iceman, Angel, Colossus, and Bishop together. I know what some will say about nostalgia but let me have my moment :lol

Also like I said earlier there were times in X-factor where Jean felt like a leader (again look at issues where Scott was away or unavailable). I think becoming a leader was a natural evolution for Jean even without Teen Jean.

Although not from the Gold Team era, after X-Tinction Agenda, the leaders of the X-Men were considered to be Cyclops, Jean, Storm, and Cable when they all came together to consider how to pursue Xavier's dream after Genosha.

I wonder if Jean would have included Wolverine in X-Men 28 alongside Cyclops, Storm, and Beast had he still been at the mansion at the time.

I don't see Colossus ever serving as team leader. I think even in Claremont's run after Storm was depowered, they needed a team leader and it came to Nightcrawler automatically because Wolverine refused to do it, Rogue was too brash, and Kitty too young. Colossus wasn't even a contender. And I think Kitty actually did, despite her young age, take some leadership roles even then which goes to show how Colossus was always dismissed for such a role.

[PwrdOn]

I do like how comics in the 90s so seamlessly combined unrealistic body shapes and poses with just about the most aesthetically unappealing costume designs possible, the fact that they're just trying so hard to make everyone sexy and failing spectacularly at it is a source of entertainment in its own right. And honestly, what is so hard about drawing feet?