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  1. #4456
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    So something they were toying with when they were launching X-Men #1 in 1991? Oh, the stories we could have gotten! And imagine how different Jean would have been in the animated series.
    Plans definitely changed especially the line-ups of Blue and Gold. The magazine Amazing Heroes issue 188 has a news item about the team line-ups for X-men and Uncanny. Fast forward to an interview with Claremont and Jim Lee in Amazing Heroes issue 192 and here we get the line-ups that we actually saw from X-men 1 and Uncanny 281.

    In the issue 188 the teams were said to be:

    Uncanny: Cyclops, Rogue, Psylocke, and iceman.

    X-men: Jean, Storm, Beast, Wolverine, and Gambit (add Colossus and you have the team featured in the Jim Lee art).

    Both teams would be led by Xavier with assistance from Forge.

    Both issues of Amazing Hereos that I've referenced you can find online and read the full interviews. Both are posted on sites we shouldn't mention or look at (but you may be able to find excerpts via google as well).
    Last edited by MechaJeanix; 08-02-2020 at 08:38 PM. Reason: correction

  2. #4457
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Lol Jean has been offending misogynists since the 70s and yet it's almost a surprising miracle when she has a powerful moment of character or a feat in 2020.
    Because of the easily misogynist bent of the the Dark Phoenix Saga - powerful woman goes crazy...because she’s powerful? - I’ve wondered what a female writer/director might interpret an adaptation of the story thru a modern feminist lens. Some say that the most recent “Dark Phoenix” film did well on that front, but I haven’t been able to see past the movies flaws to appreciate that if that’s the case.
    Others however...not so much.
    https://wereviewyouwatch.com/feminis...-dark-phoenix/

    So I wonder about a Jane Campion’s or Ava Duvernay’s or Patty Jenkins’ or the Wachowski Sisters’ “Dark Phoenix” someday...

  3. #4458
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franckd View Post
    As much I never like Jim Lee's suit design for Jean, I always loved the way he draws her face.
    One of my favorite Jim Lee depictions of a Jean was on one of his early X-Men (#264) covers. The hair color is off and she’s wearing the standard Xaviers school uniform, but she’s rarely looked more active and powerful.
    7E63AEC8-F5C6-458E-8293-EBC4275BE397.jpg

  4. #4459
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Monday Mini-skirted Masked MARVEL Appreciation






  5. #4460
    Spectacular Member Conor's Avatar
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    Really cool images Thirteen!

  6. #4461
    Mighty Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    If anyone here is a fan of Russell Dauterman's Jean, he recently put some signed prints up for sale on his online shop. I'm so glad he restocked his Jean Grey print, because it sold out months ago when he first put it up.
    https://russelldauterman.square.site/shop/3




  7. #4462
    Incredible Member franckd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    One of my favorite Jim Lee depictions of a Jean was on one of his early X-Men (#264) covers. The hair color is off and she’s wearing the standard Xaviers school uniform, but she’s rarely looked more active and powerful.
    7E63AEC8-F5C6-458E-8293-EBC4275BE397.jpg
    Yes, she looks very powerful and badass here. I really like it.

  8. #4463
    Spectacular Member andreikes's Avatar
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    Dauterman is my religion

  9. #4464
    Incredible Member franckd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightw1ng View Post
    If anyone here is a fan of Russell Dauterman's Jean, he recently put some signed prints up for sale on his online shop. I'm so glad he restocked his Jean Grey print, because it sold out months ago when he first put it up.
    https://russelldauterman.square.site/shop/3

    I love that cover so much. I love how Dauterman pays attention to details. Look at Jean's last X-Factor suit (the blue and yellow one) it has those kind of shoulder pads, like Portacio designed it.


  10. #4465
    Spectacular Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    Plans definitely changed especially the line-ups of Blue and Gold. The magazine Amazing Heroes issue 188 has a news item about the team line-ups for X-men and Uncanny. Fast forward to an interview with Claremont and Jim Lee in Amazing Heroes issue 192 and here we get the line-ups that we actually saw from X-men 1 and Uncanny 281.

    In the issue 188 the teams were said to be:

    Uncanny: Cyclops, Rogue, Psylocke, and iceman.

    X-men: Jean, Storm, Beast, Wolverine, and Gambit (add Colossus and you have the team featured in the Jim Lee art).

    Both teams would be led by Xavier with assistance from Forge.

    Both issues of Amazing Hereos that I've referenced you can find online and read the full interviews. Both are posted on sites we shouldn't mention or look at (but you may be able to find excerpts via google as well).
    Editorial interference, no doubt. Do they have a note somewhere in the X-offices saying that you can’t give Jean her Phoenix powers? Seagle tried (and the build-up was amazing), but his story was shut down just as it was really taking off.
    Morrison’s Jean as Phoenix was probably green lighted because she would die at the end.
    Jean has never been as powerful as she was when she was dead. The way they spoke about her made it seem as if she was a goddess.

  11. #4466
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    Editorial interference, no doubt. Do they have a note somewhere in the X-offices saying that you can’t give Jean her Phoenix powers? Seagle tried (and the build-up was amazing), but his story was shut down just as it was really taking off.
    Morrison’s Jean as Phoenix was probably green lighted because she would die at the end.
    Jean has never been as powerful as she was when she was dead. The way they spoke about her made it seem as if she was a goddess.
    Jean, as Phoenix, was a goddess.

  12. #4467
    Incredible Member franckd's Avatar
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    I really loved that Morrison's Jean was pretty much in total control of the Phoenix. Yet, she wasn't over powerful when she was alive, during the run. That was great.
    She became cosmic powerful only in the future, with the M'Kraan Cristal.

    This should have been canon : Jean Grey as Phoenix on earth = never cosmic powerful. Just powerful, but not as a Dea Ex Machina. Not overshadowing her team mates. Just being Phoenix in name, suit and power signature. It would be more than enough. I would like that any future writer stop trying to do their "own" Phoenix (or Dark Phoenix) Saga. The sagas have been done. Lets move on. I am even OK with the idea of a Pink Phoenix signature, even If I prefer the fire one. But if it holds the writers to go full "Phoenix Drama" again, I will cope with the pink...

  13. #4468
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    I think Jean as the Phoenix on Earth can be cosmically powerful - if Thor or Silver Surfer or etc are allowed to be cosmically powerful on Earth then Jean should be too. The entire problem was that John Byrne and Jim Shooter didn't agree with that for reasons that could only be defined as being misogynistic. The issue is when the Phoenix is defined as being all powerful, or if not all powerful than powerful on the same level as other higher powers like Galactus and other similar characters. Jean as the Phoenix should never be THAT powerful unless she's operating from the White Hot Room.

    I'd argue that Jean on her own as an omega level psi, mutant, and etc with everything that we've seen from her should be as powerful as those cosmic level heroes already without the Phoenix Force or at the very least be damn close - let her, as Green Phoenix, represent her own power and that's the default state. And then include an Avatar State kind of deal where Jean can tap into the higher power as White Phoenix (with her and the PF in balance with one another) and then the Red / Dark Phoenix being when the Phoenix is in control.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  14. #4469
    Incredible Member franckd's Avatar
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    The issue, imo, is that the Dark Phoenix Saga is still in so many writers's (and readers's) mind that each time Jean is claiming her Phoenix identity, one of the subplot is the fear that she will go dark again. I would like to say : "enough with that"... I even wish now that the MCU will have Jean being green Phoenix (at some point) but never try to take the Dark Phoenix road...

  15. #4470
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franckd View Post
    The issue, imo, is that the Dark Phoenix Saga is still in so many writers's (and readers's) mind that each time Jean is claiming her Phoenix identity, one of the subplot is the fear that she will go dark again. I would like to say : "enough with that"... I even wish now that the MCU will have Jean being green Phoenix (at some point) but never try to take the Dark Phoenix road...
    Oh, absolutely. People seem to think that all Jean can do with the Phoenix is go dark again eventually. We need a writer to define Jean as the Phoenix and as a Phoenix that is in control, with no fear of her losing control and going dark, and then we need an editor that will keep future writers and other writers in the line, and at Marvel in general, to keep them to that. It amazes me that given how popular Jean as Phoenix is in outside media, even a Jean who is permanently heroic (MUA2 & 3 for instance never ever had Jean going dark, plus Legends has it as backstory at best as well as the late 90s, early 00's fighting games), that the comics never really bothered to maintain Jean as a heroic Phoenix for the first time since... what, 1979? Early 1980? It seems like common sense.

    Imagine if instead of X-Men Red - which is my favorite comic book released in a very, very long time - we got a new era of X-Men books starring Jean as Phoenix. Red was basically off the charts compared to other X-Books at the time, add a dash of Phoenix and it would've been that much more impressive.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

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