Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[v_jeovanne]

I think everyone agrees now that it's definetely a thing(back when it started there was a lot of deniers), but in a way it's still not as clear as it could be, they haven't actually stated it with words, that's probably why they can get away with it(plus the fact that they probably let Hickman do whatever he wants + JDW thinks it's a good solution for shipping drama).

I think they have allowed it because it can be undone without consequences for the characters.
Their bodies are empty shells and apparently they are only copies.

[Wiccan]

I think they have allowed it because it can be undone without consequences for the characters.
Their bodies are empty shells and apparently they are only copies.

No. 10chars

[loke13]

I think they have allowed it because it can be undone without consequences for the characters.
Their bodies are empty shells and apparently they are only copies.

Are people still saying this? After Hickman went to such lengths as to painstakingly detail the resurrection process as well as reiterate by him and multiple writers exactly why those brought back to life aren't "just clones".

It's like when a few people thought that HoX was gonna end with moira's 11th life kicking in or that all the X-Men were being trapped in some sub-basement on Krakoa by the evil minds of Xavier and Moira.

These are the 616 X-Men, hope you survive the experience *shrug*

[v_jeovanne]

Are people still saying this? After Hickman went to such lengths as to painstakingly detail the resurrection process as well as reiterate by him and multiple writers exactly why those brought back to life aren't "just clones".

It's like when a few people thought that HoX was gonna end with moira's 11th life kicking in or that all the X-Men were being trapped in some sub-basement on Krakoa by the evil minds of Xavier and Moira.

These are the 616 X-Men, hope you survive the experience *shrug*

It is not a resurrection process, it is a cloning process. I thought the same thing until I read an interview with Pepe Larraz where she mentions Hickman's processes to "manipulate" the concept and tell her story. I just want it to be interesting and finish it without nonsense, not like other authors.

[The Thunderbird]

I think they have allowed it because it can be undone without consequences for the characters.
Their bodies are empty shells and apparently they are only copies.

I can only go down with this if we end up getting the real deals back. So many iconic mutants have died both hero and villain whenever it be through Dawn of X, the Orchis Mission, and Rosenberg's Uncanny. If the originals don't show up I suspect a lot of people will be not pleased to put it lightly. I know Moira would be an obvious way to reverse this but could get tricky considering other Marvel books have referenced Krakoa already.

[Phoenixx9]

That new costume for Jean would look great in a new animated series!

[Havok83]

It is not a resurrection process, it is a cloning process. I thought the same thing until I read an interview with Pepe Larraz where she mentions Hickman's processes to "manipulate" the concept and tell her story. I just want it to be interesting and finish it without nonsense, not like other authors.

Pepe's a man. Resurrection, cloning....same difference. They are technically clones but they refer to the process as resurrection in the books. They have a document called the Resurrection Protocols. As presented, the mutants that go through this process are essentially supposed to be taken the same as the originals

[UncannyLZ]

That wasn’t for the movie. That was an artist’s just commissioning a modernized Jean Grey uniform. I forget the artist’s name. He usually post a lot of X-Men redesigns.

It’s a redesign for the movie, X-Men Apocalypse here is a link to the artist and another sketch of the design https://twitter.com/jasskenster/stat...052454912?s=21

8FDF098B-4A98-4CF4-B50B-030B6BFDD7A7.jpg

[WallStreeter]

Pepe's a man. Resurrection, cloning....same difference. They are technically clones but they refer to the process as resurrection in the books. They have a document called the Resurrection Protocols. As presented, the mutants that go through this process are essentially supposed to be taken the same as the originals

All mutant minds are stored by Cerebro in multiple locations. So after the create a new body for the mutant and place a new copy of a mind in it, it’s a defacto resurrection process. I think Hickman did this so they would no longer have to come up with ridiculous explanations for some characters resurrection. Like Cable putting a chip near Cyclops’s heart to resurrect him when the Phoenix came. Lol.

[Wiccan]

I think Hickman's pretty much ignoring the spiritual/religious concept of "soul" and saying that their minds, that get to be backed up by Cerebro, are really their "souls". There's a few problems with that considering that in the MU the idea of souls and going to heaven and etc exist, but I guess you can just sort of headcanon that their "actual souls" go in to their bodies too and/or are actually tied to their minds. I think JDW or Hickman himself said something like that.

[v_jeovanne]

All mutant minds are stored by Cerebro in multiple locations. So after the create a new body for the mutant and place a new copy of a mind in it, it’s a defacto resurrection process. I think Hickman did this so they would no longer have to come up with ridiculous explanations for some characters resurrection. Like Cable putting a chip near Cyclops’s heart to resurrect him when the Phoenix came. Lol.

Yes, you did an exact synthesis of several interviews with the authors.

[v_jeovanne]

I can only go down with this if we end up getting the real deals back. So many iconic mutants have died both hero and villain whenever it be through Dawn of X, the Orchis Mission, and Rosenberg's Uncanny. If the originals don't show up I suspect a lot of people will be not pleased to put it lightly. I know Moira would be an obvious way to reverse this but could get tricky considering other Marvel books have referenced Krakoa already.

honestly I would not like it, I prefer to continue the concept as strange as it may seem, although I do not like the personality change of some characters (Storm for example) I am willing to tolerate such changes for something decent to read in Marvel.

[WallStreeter]

I think Hickman's pretty much ignoring the spiritual/religious concept of "soul" and saying that their minds, that get to be backed up by Cerebro, are really their "souls". There's a few problems with that considering that in the MU the idea of souls and going to heaven and etc exist, but I guess you can just sort of headcanon that their "actual souls" go in to their bodies too and/or are actually tied to their minds. I think JDW or Hickman himself said something like that.

The clones have their own souls. Xavier just programs then with the memories of the original. In Empyre we see a zombie mutant brought back by the Scarlet Witch, meeting his living self brought back by the Krakoans. So the real souls do go into the afterlife.

Poor Jean got her wish. She really is dead, having been killed in space. Now the new clone Jean can accept the Phoenix when se she wants and as the new Phoenix keep it and be immortal. I guess already she is turning over in her grave because now the Phoenix has a new Jean Grey that doesn’t think she was better off dead and that doesn’t does negatively of the Phoenix. I think this the reason she is in the Marvel Girl mini.

We know during the resurrection process characters can have memories edited out. Domino has specifically requested that her memories be edited. I think a number of characters had their memories edited. Vulcan, Cyclops, Jean, Esme. Even the resurrected Sabretooth. After having his neck bit by Wolfbane and his head cut off by Magik if he remembered that he would never have worked with the X-Men.

Still this is a standard resurrection for audiences si writers don’t waste time coming up with ever more weird come backs.

[Havok83]

The clones have their own souls. Xavier just programs then with the memories of the original. In Empyre we see a zombie mutant brought back by the Scarlet Witch, meeting his living self brought back by the Krakoans. So the real souls do go into the afterlife.

Poor Jean got her wish. She really is dead, having been killed in space. Now the new clone Jean can accept the Phoenix when se she wants and as the new Phoenix keep it and be immortal. I guess already she is turning over in her grave because now the Phoenix has a new Jean Grey that doesn’t think she was better off dead and that doesn’t does negatively of the Phoenix. I think this the reason she is in the Marvel Girl mini.

We know during the resurrection process characters can have memories edited out. Domino has specifically requested that her memories be edited. I think a number of characters had their memories edited. Vulcan, Cyclops, Jean, Esme. Even the resurrected Sabretooth. After having his neck bit by Wolfbane and his head cut off by Magik if he remembered that he would never have worked with the X-Men.

Still this is a standard resurrection for audiences si writers don’t waste time coming up with ever more weird come backs.

Vulcan was not resurrected. He has all his memories

Sabretooth doesnt remember has death and that has nothing to do with his memories being edited. The backup only happens once a week so whenever a person is brought back, its of their most recent backup, which doesnt take include their death

[WallStreeter]

Vulcan was not resurrected. He has all his memories

Sabretooth doesnt remember has death and that has nothing to do with his memories being edited. The backup only happens once a week so whenever a person is brought back, its of their most recent backup, which doesnt take include their death

He did not seem like the type to join Krakoa before he died. He sure changed his attitude on being brought back.

Even if you’re totally right on Sabretooth, not letting him no how he died is still a major manipulation. He never would have done that mission if he knew.

Esme Cuckoo died and came back as a ghost who totally hated her sisters. Now she is all cool with them?

Are you sure a lot of exiting isn’t going on? If it meant creating a stable socio the architects of Krakoa would do what they have to do.