Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Phoenix as a codename even without the force was fine back on the '90s but it wouldn't make any sense now.

The reason the name wouldn't make sense now needs to he retconned too.

The mandate that she not be Phoenix and that terribly shitty story came from an aggressive fear of powerful women.

[davetvs]

The reason the name wouldn't make sense now needs to he retconned too.

The mandate that she not be Phoenix and that terribly shitty story came from an aggressive fear of powerful women.

I agree with this to an extent, but if we're going there with Jean, we also need to go there with Wanda.

[Wiccan]

The reason the name wouldn't make sense now needs to he retconned too.

The mandate that she not be Phoenix and that terribly shitty story came from an aggressive fear of powerful women.

I completely support Phoenix Jean, always have. Just think that giving her the name without the force simply so she can have a codename or to get rid of "Marvel Girl" is silly.

[Havok83]

Jean made such a big deal about divorcing herself from the PF that she should only get to use that codename if she rebonds with it and that should be a monumental moment. It would be very anticlimatic if she just started using it one day with a strong reason in story. She doesnt need to keep the PF but she definitely should embrace it if she's going to take the codename again

[darewithpeace]

the marvel woman codename would be so epic

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I completely support Phoenix Jean, always have. Just think that giving her the name without the force simply so she can have a codename or to get rid of "Marvel Girl" is silly.

I was saying that your point makes sense, though I think she should be Phoenix regardless, and I was also saying that they should make your point moot by retconing that awful breakup story.

The nerve of Rosenberg to imply Jean was the Phoenix's hostage and ruin the work of several better writers with his hot garbage. Guy should go sit down somewhere. So glad he's off the X.

the marvel woman codename would be so epic

To me, it's a bit clunky and not catchy.

[whitecrown]

I always thought it'd be cool to see Jean team up with Wanda and Lorna, too bad this never happened in the main MU:

Agreed. They were dubbed the three most powerful women in the world and all are Silver Age female mutants. It's a crime that these three never got panel time all together.

[whitecrown]

I agree with this to an extent, but if we're going there with Jean, we also need to go there with Wanda.

Marvel writers have always been intimidated by these two women and gone out of the way to put them down. The only reason Sue Storm was safe was because of the Fantastic Four being Marvel's First Family, otherwise she'd probably have a similar fate.

[whitecrown]

the marvel woman codename would be so epic

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I agree that maybe it's a bit clunky but the fact that Marvel is in her name shows that she's popular and iconic enough to be a face of the brand like Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel both. A very worthy title for Marvel's leading lady. However, Phoenix is still my preferred choice and one day I hope she can reclaim the mantle.

[whitecrown]

I knew I kept this picture for a reason. Maybe A can help her with a new codename.

I loved this. Apocalypse was so correct about her and I always wanted to see what his ultimate endgame was for her. I think in this story Claremont seeded a hint that the Kree weapon on the Blue Area of the Moon wouldn't have been powerful enough to kill Phoenix but Apocalypse was responsible for that somehow. I'm assuming it was supposed to build up to The Twelve storyline which originally wasn't about 12 mutants empowering Apocalypse but 12 mutants who would lead a new golden age for mutants. Sounds like Apocalypse and Jean would be the main leaders.

[MechaJeanix]

I loved this. Apocalypse was so correct about her and I always wanted to see what his ultimate endgame was for her. I think in this story Claremont seeded a hint that the Kree weapon on the Blue Area of the Moon wouldn't have been powerful enough to kill Phoenix but Apocalypse was responsible for that somehow. I'm assuming it was supposed to build up to The Twelve storyline which originally wasn't about 12 mutants empowering Apocalypse but 12 mutants who would lead a new golden age for mutants. Sounds like Apocalypse and Jean would be the main leaders.

Reading this I caught myself thinking they should have capped the omega mutants at 12 but I guess it is much too late to correct the disappointing twelve storyline (nor would we want them to revisit and correct it).

I loved it when Jean took back the Phoenix codename in the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix and I loved Jean's explanation years later for wearing the Phoenix costume. The phoenix was a symbol of her rebirth and she wasn't going to be afraid to explore the limits of her powers even though she knew it would make Scott and others uncomfortable. It was embracing herself (but somehow Rosenberg saw it as an unhealthy toxic relationship..)

I agree with others that due to the events of Phoenix Resurrection it would be hard to justify Jean going back to the codename but if writers are creative enough I'm sure they could make it work somehow. Jean denounced the Phoenix in part for her being in a cycle of death and rebirth but now the entire mutant people are in that cycle (but due to technology and the Five instead of a cosmic force). Jean has continued to die and be reborn in this new era. Phoenix fits her. It is a name that fans still associate with the character including casual fans due to the cartoons and movies. In the Morrison era Phoenix was her official codename even though she mainly went by Jean Grey. That could work now imo.

Marvel Woman doesn't sound right to me but it is more accurate than Marvel Girl.

[Havok83]

How about Marvel Mama?

[houndsofluv]

perfect in all respects ! non-diminutive and carries on her legacy . we have our winner

[whitecrown]

Reading this I caught myself thinking they should have capped the omega mutants at 12 but I guess it is much too late to correct the disappointing twelve storyline (nor would we want them to revisit and correct it).

I loved it when Jean took back the Phoenix codename in the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix and I loved Jean's explanation years later for wearing the Phoenix costume. The phoenix was a symbol of her rebirth and she wasn't going to be afraid to explore the limits of her powers even though she knew it would make Scott and others uncomfortable. It was embracing herself (but somehow Rosenberg saw it as an unhealthy toxic relationship..)

I agree with others that due to the events of Phoenix Resurrection it would be hard to justify Jean going back to the codename but if writers are creative enough I'm sure they could make it work somehow. Jean denounced the Phoenix in part for her being in a cycle of death and rebirth but now the entire mutant people are in that cycle (but due to technology and the Five instead of a cosmic force). Jean has continued to die and be reborn in this new era. Phoenix fits her. It is a name that fans still associate with the character including casual fans due to the cartoons and movies. In the Morrison era Phoenix was her official codename even though she mainly went by Jean Grey. That could work now imo.

Marvel Woman doesn't sound right to me but it is more accurate than Marvel Girl.

Omega-level mutants are something that get changed with every writer so it's not too late to retcon that lol. Is Rachel still an omega-level mutant? It would be ironic if she's not anymore since she was the first ever omega-level mutant if I remember correctly. Storm has always gone back and forth on whether she is one or not and Psylocke was revealed as one by Rick Remender and no one ever did anything with that. Isn't Magneto an omega-level mutant now as well even though he never was one before (not even in the movies when they specifically note that Jean is a "class 5" mutant unlike Magneto).

I loved the Kelly and Seagle run and it's a real shame they had to permanently write out Scott and Jean and couldn't go ahead with their storyline of everyone thinking Jean would become Dark Phoenix but at the end it turns out there's nothing to be worried about. It may not have been a classic, but it's possible it would have stopped future stories of Jean losing all control and becoming Dark Phoenix (although maybe I'm too optimistic). I think they also wanted to introduce baby Rachel finally and I would have liked to see pregnant Jean.

I wouldn't go too much by the events in Phoenix Resurrection because we all know that Jean's status quo with the Phoenix changes even more than her deaths and rebirths. In Endsong we were being told that Jean was the Phoenix and vice-versa. Yet, after that came Avengers vs X-Men where there's no mention of Jean at all. When Marvel inevitably wants to, Jean will become Phoenix again and it's just a question of when rather than if.

[whitecrown]

Attachment 97378
They could always give her the codename Psyke like John Byrne wanted to do in his unpublished What If? issue where Magneto formed the X-Men. Betsy isn't using Psylocke anymore and Kwannon can always go back to Revanche.