Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[spirit2011]

Do you mean Endsong? Because I think it's clear they only did that to capitalize on her intense popularity by "throwing fans a bone" and saying "see we can bring her back whenever we want to. We just don't want to right now. And btw, Jean was never good for Scott and this comic is proof of that." They had no intention of reviving her permanently back then. Especially when countless other writers did want to bring her back. She was meant to be a reincarnated Hope Summers. Mike Carey wanted her to be Revenant in Age of X to restore her. Bendis wanted her to join the New Avengers with Wolverine. But all of that was moot because the X-Men needed only one X-Lady who was sleeping with Scott Summers back then and Jean wasn't it.

I can stop drinking when i want , but i don't want to stop drinking right now. Endsong was just a bait, here is a Pak interview that it wasn't a story meant to bring Jean back, just a vehicle for his bad Phoenix fan fic.
it got cancelled because fans wanted Jean back and the story he was telling wasn't that

[whitecrown]

I’ve never heard of this? I want it.

I don't remember where I first read this but I want to say it was something John Byrne revealed and it was a plan he had for a future story to reveal that Surfer went after Dark Phoenix as he said he would in The Dark Phoenix Saga. Maybe someone else recalls this though and has a link.

[whitecrown]

I'm not attracted by negative people, and less attracted by readers full of hate for - hum - fictional characters.
Anyway, have a nice hate day/life whatever. Share it with anyone you want. It's a free speech forum here. But it's not something I enjoy reading. And as I don't want to derail this topic into a fight, just for you to know, you're on my ignore list now.

That's fine, I don't even know you are so it's hardly any loss for me. I'm surprised you're in this thread in the first place. And you responded to me first I'd like to remind you, I had no idea who you even were until you got upset about the fact that I didn't like Morrison's run and simply said so. Glad you're doing the best to take care of yourself and ignoring me if that's what suits you though.

[whitecrown]

i would like to see that too but then i remember how Marvel made such a big deal in separating Jean and the Phoenix Force...

Also when a character becomes that powerful, it's very hard to handle them, and it will be worst because they tend to job against weaker villains.

Just gave her her damm pink form again lol, she can be just as OP with her draining powers.

Marvel never has problems amping up powerful male characters like Thor, Silver Surfer, Hulk, Doctor Strange, etc. so it's a shame they still have these issues about powerful women. And the recent Avengers team was probably their most powerful with Carol, She-Hulk, Doctor Strange, Thor, Ghost Rider, etc. so a proper writer could balance out Jean if need be, but I agree with you that most writers would get overwhelmed and not know what to do with Jean.

I'd love if the pink form evolved into a pink fiery raptor to keep some of the Phoenix imagery.

[Havok83]

Do you mean Endsong? Because I think it's clear they only did that to capitalize on her intense popularity by "throwing fans a bone" and saying "see we can bring her back whenever we want to. We just don't want to right now. And btw, Jean was never good for Scott and this comic is proof of that." They had no intention of reviving her permanently back then. Especially when countless other writers did want to bring her back. She was meant to be a reincarnated Hope Summers. Mike Carey wanted her to be Revenant in Age of X to restore her. Bendis wanted her to join the New Avengers with Wolverine. But all of that was moot because the X-Men needed only one X-Lady who was sleeping with Scott Summers back then and Jean wasn't it.

Yes Endsong. I dont agree that htey had no intention of bringing her back bc that mini set it up perfectly. We got a followup in Warsong and we were supposed to get a trilogy to close it out. That never happened. Instead AvX did and Jean's story got retconned out of existence

[whitecrown]

I can stop drinking when i want , but i don't want to stop drinking right now. Endsong was just a bait, here is a Pak interview that it wasn't a story meant to bring Jean back, just a vehicle for his bad Phoenix fan fic.
it got cancelled because fans wanted Jean back and the story he was telling wasn't that

Yes Endsong. I dont agree that htey had no intention of bringing her back bc that mini set it up perfectly. We got a followup in Warsong and we were supposed to get a trilogy to close it out. That never happened. Instead AvX did and Jean's story got retconned out of existence

And even more proof is that the Endsong sequel, Warsong, had literally nothing to do with Jean. The fake blonde co-opted the Phoenix yet again to make it a story all about her and the funny thing is that the comic tanked. I still remember in comic shops, it was marked down to $5 because nobody was buying it, not even for that price. No one cared if Jean wasn't involved.

[whitecrown]

Morrison made the two inseparable and there are plenty of OP men with their own titles.

If Jean can’t have the Phoenix force now, then I dont get why they wouldn’t give her the pink form.

100% agree. However we all know how Marvel treats powerful women here. Carol is only safe because of her film otherwise she'd meet the same fate she met in the 80s.

More of the pink Phoenix form which I'd like to see Jean's pink form evolve into.

[spirit2011]

Do you mean Endsong? Because I think it's clear they only did that to capitalize on her intense popularity by "throwing fans a bone" and saying "see we can bring her back whenever we want to. We just don't want to right now. And btw, Jean was never good for Scott and this comic is proof of that." They had no intention of reviving her permanently back then. Especially when countless other writers did want to bring her back. She was meant to be a reincarnated Hope Summers. Mike Carey wanted her to be Revenant in Age of X to restore her. Bendis wanted her to join the New Avengers with Wolverine. But all of that was moot because the X-Men needed only one X-Lady who was sleeping with Scott Summers back then and Jean wasn't it.

Carey did a lot for Rogue, imagine what he could do for Jean.

Bendis had a long and good run on avengers, he did a lot for Jessica Jones and luke cage. Imagine Jean popularity today would a lot bigger.

I think we lost a lot, the return was ok for Red but since hickman launched his run her development was regressed back as marvel girl

Especially since whenever they wanted to show dead X-Men, they always used Jean in that outfit since that's what she was in when she died (Endsong was completely ignored which just proves my point that Endsong was just used to capitalize on Jean's popularity and they didn't care for it as canon or not. Jean officially died for them in Morrison's run and they were sticking to that).

Ross's design is super elegant and I love the hood, long cloak, and boots.

I agree, Carol and Jean have so much in common especially with Claremont at the helm. Ideas for The Dark Phoenix Saga were originally meant for Carol's own Ms. Marvel run including being turned into the Black Queen so it's utterly criminal that these two women have never interacted before. Especially when I think there's a lot of fandom overlap.

Endsong was pure filler, that was completely forgotten.

I would like a Carol/Jean mini written by Claremont LOL I think he knows a lot about powerful women being downplayed because they are women

[whitecrown]

Carey did a lot for Rogue, imagine what he could do for Jean.

Bendis had a long and good run on avengers, he did a lot for Jessica Jones and luke cage. Imagine Jean popularity today would a lot bigger.

I think we lost a lot, the return was ok for Red but since hickman launched his run her development was regressed back as marvel girl

I never knew Carey was a Jean fan and I'd like to have seen what he had planned for her.

Bendis I know was a Jean fan which doesn't surprise me because he seems to love the 70s characters based on how he brought back characters like Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Ms. Marvel, and Iron Fist so Phoenix Jean came from that same era. Bendis also inserted Jean into Jessica Jones' origin which I thought was neat and branched Jean out into the wider Marvel Universe. Jessica Jones was originally supposed to be Jessica Drew so I would have preferred that because it would have tied two Claremontian women together and put Jean that much closer to Carol Danvers since Jessica Drew is her bestie.

This was also teased during Secret Invasion so it does seem like Bendis would have brought back Jean if he could have much earlier.


X-Men Red and X-Men Dissassembled was a good platform for Jean because it used her as the leader and face of the X-Men but unfortunately Hickman has little regard for her. And I used to follow his Fantastic Four run so I do remember that in interviews he always used to say the usual drivel that was said back in the late 2000s/early 2010s that Jean needed to stay dead and she held Scott back as a man and leader and they were only childhood sweethearts and nothing more. He made very clear that he preferred the fake blonde which is also why he's brought her back from obscurity in his new run.

[franckd]

This. Marvel in fact did bring her back a year later but ended up botching that story by never concluding it

Yes, I remembered they wanted to a Trilogy at the time. After Endsong was released I remember that one of the Marvel editor said they wanted to do a sequel with the same creative team (Pak and Land), and they didn't want to compromise that. Unfortunately, it's also and editor who asked for Warsong to be about the cuckoos. And we got that sequel, with an other artist, whose style has nothing to do with Greg Land's... If that matters, on any level, I bought Endsong but I never bought Warsong. The story felt forced.

Too many times, Marvel forgets that the Phoenix stories are more compelling with emotions attached to them. And those emotions are attached to Jean.

[BESTXMAN]

I would have hated Bendis with Jean. He knows how to fuck up characters better than anyone. He is only good with street level characters. When you put him with big franchises he goes crazy.

[Phoenixx9]

Marvel should have made Jean/Phoenix a cosmic character after New X-men.

I have often said the same thing. After all, Phoenix is a cosmic force. The cosmic stories would be a perfect fit and within the scope of her powers.

[Cruelrain]

Didn't he made Jean go Pink form against Galactus? eye

I agree, Bendis comics don't make a lot of sense sometimes and has so much PIS, like HoM or when Sentry defeated somehow Molecule Man lol

[whitecrown]

I would have hated Bendis with Jean. He knows how to fuck up characters better than anyone. He is only good with street level characters. When you put him with big franchises he goes crazy.

At least he wouldn't have left her on the sidelines like Hickman is doing now and Hickman has made it very clear in the past that he doesn't care much for Jean. Whether you like how he dealt with characters like Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Daredevil, Ms. Marvel, etc. is one thing, but it's no question that he dramatically raised the profiles of most of these characters. The only character he really butchered imo was Scarlet Witch.

[whitecrown]

I have often said the same thing. After all, Phoenix is a cosmic force. The cosmic stories would be a perfect fit and within the scope of her powers.

I would like to see her and Carol led a new Guardians of the Galaxy team. With Silver Surfer on there as well like others suggested here.